Teaching 2A to our kids - a study in contrasts

[EMTDAD]

"the spirit of the amendment" ... I'd love to hear his explanation of this... oh, please.. do expand on what you think this is?

 

[AHM]

The Eames Massacre Monument

Surprised they allow that monument to stand, what with the whole "we don't need self-help in Massachusetts" attitude that seems to be prevalent today.

Compare and contrast with Boscawen, NH's Hannah Duston monument.

The last time I stopped there was returning from eating a burger and
ogling the 55 Gallon Drum O' 10/22 Felony Magazines at the Barn Store of NH
on Tax Day 2016.
One inscription struck me as having a bit of an air of
"don't kidnap our women and youts, and murder our babies,
or we'll kill you in your sleep."

BTW, not many hotels have a logo showing
a woman brandishing a tomahawk, sneaking up behind an Indian.

Seems wacist.

While I understand the geographic connection,
I wish Framingham had somehow found something
a little more impressive than a glorified culvert to name after Crispus Attucks.
(Not that it's not a nice plaque).
ETA: Old photo went behind firewall; try this:

 

[Coyote33]

The reality is that, at the elementary level at least, it ain't gonna happen. My kids' school was 1/4 mile away from the Eames Massacre site.

The Eames Massacre Monument

They could not go to see it, even though it was part of the local history, as they would have to cross two streets.

That said, my two kids were both out of the Gun Safe, and had a standing offer to take any of their friends to the range (with parental approval).

Gun safety courses will be mandatory for some Iowa middle school students

You mean 4H doesn't involve shooting sports around here?

I don't think so. Check out:

• Abandoned Trap Range in Spencer?
• No 4-H Shooting Sports Program in MA?!?
• UMASS refuses funding for kids gun program.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

No chance in hell that any individual school, school district, or state board of education allows a field trip to a gun range, especially in New England.

25 years or so when I was on the Hopkinton Sportsmens board, a shop teacher at Keefe Tech regularly brought the school rifle team over for practice (22s). The relationship soured somewhat when the teacher had trouble getting into the range and kicked the door down so his students could get in.

 

[MisterHappy]

25 years or so when I was on the Hopkinton Sportsmens board, a shop teacher at Keefe Tech regularly brought the school rifle team over for practice (22s). The relationship soured somewhat when the teacher had trouble getting into the range and kicked the door down so his students could get in.

Well, at least he was able to fix it....you know....being a shop teacher and all.

Was he a Member, or was the Club just doing him a solid?

 

[wahsben]

If anybody has some good resources of quotes and other information, that would be great. Thanks.

Gun Facts - Debunking Gun Policy Misinformation

 

[Coyote33]

Bring your kids to an Appleseed
They will learn about shooting, safety, American History and American Values.

Not only would I like to do this, I'd like to host one of these at our club. I am on the board, and would welcome help in making it happen. I would provide a bridge between organizers and the club. I'd work to get club help with manning stations, etc., but would let someone who does this regularly take the lead. How does insurance for this work?

It also shows a shocking lack of familiarity with an understanding of US vs. Verdugo-Urquidez

Fill us in. Not only am I (also) unfamiliar with this, I've never even heard of it. Just a quick cliff notes version. Thanks.

Gun Facts - Debunking Gun Policy Misinformation

The paper is already done. I'll pass it along, though. Thank you.

 

[Cap'n Mike]

Not only would I like to do this, I'd like to host one of these at our club. I am on the board, and would welcome help in making it happen. I would provide a bridge between organizers and the club. I'd work to get club help with manning stations, etc., but would let someone who does this regularly take the lead. How does insurance for this work?

Im a Red Hat Instructor, but that is above my paygrade.
Matt, the Mass State Coordinator can answer your questions.
He is lupis42 on this forum
MA State Coordinator Email Address: [email protected]

 

[JenkkiMike]

No chance in hell that any individual school, school district, or state board of education allows a field trip to a gun range, especially in New England.

You're probably right. In contrast, I attended a high school in rural Finland as an exchange student and our gym classes were divided by sex. Our gym teacher took the entire group of us boys to a range to shoot trap and 22 rifles. I don't recall any letters being sent home or waivers being signed beforehand either. The same gym teacher also required us to dive into a flooded quarry.

 

[CDSUSA]

Fill us in. Not only am I (also) unfamiliar with this, I've never even heard of it. Just a quick cliff notes version. Thanks.

United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez

Supreme Court of the United States
Argued November 7, 1989
Decided February 28, 1990
Full case name United States v. Rene Martin Verdugo-Urquidez
Holding
The Fourth Amendment does not apply to the search and seizure by United States agents of property owned by a nonresident alien and located in a foreign country.

Facts
Rene Martin Verdugo-Urquidez, a Mexican citizen reputed to be a drug-lord involved in the torture and murder of DEA agent Enrique Camarena Salazar, was arrested and brought to the United States. The DEA decided that it would be a good idea to search the defendant's home, so agents received authorization from the Mexican government to conduct the search. The agents found documents believed to be the defendant's records of his marijuana shipments.

When the government sought to introduce the documents as evidence in court, the defendant objected, asserting that they were obtained without a warrant, and therefore could not constitutionally be used at trial. The United States District Courtagreed, and invoked the exclusionary rule to suppress the documents (i.e., to prevent them from being used as evidence). The government appealed this ruling, which was affirmed by the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. The government then appealed to the Supreme Court.

Opinion of the Court
The Court held that the Fourth Amendment's prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures did not apply where United States agents searched and seized property located in a foreign country owned by a nonresident alien in the United States. Chief Justice Rehnquist authored the opinion for the Court, joined by Justices White, Scalia, Kennedy and O'Connor, contending that "the people" intended to be protected by the Fourth Amendment were the people of the United States, and that the defendant's "legal but involuntary presence" on U.S. soil (a direct result of his arrest) failed to create a sufficient relationship with the U.S. to allow him to call upon the Constitution for protection.

 

[fishgutzy]

Evidently the teachers in some High Schools do not grasp the concept of what "the people" means. Saying that the second amendment does not apply to semi automatic handguns is like saying the first does not apply to speech typed on a computer. Neither existined at the time the respective amendments were drafted... I know, I know. I'm preaching to the choir.

Given that the MASJC practically ruled that way, is it any wonder that students are taught that? Recall the taser case. MASJC ruled that 2A only protected technology that existed in the late 18th century. One of the only case to get a near instant unanimous smack down from SCOTUS.

 

[Wendell]

Wait till you show her a Form 4473 and look at question 10A and 10B.
Now ask her why she thinks we have firearm registration and what groups the govt. doesn't want to have them..
View attachment 262684

It's right on the ATF website:

Why does ATF Form 4473 ask for race and ethnicity?

The purpose for requiring prospective purchasers of firearms to identify their racial and ethnic background is to aid law enforcement in accurately tracing firearms found in crimes and better enable Federal firearms licensees to identify the purchaser during the background check portion of a firearms transaction. To collect this identifying information, ATF was required to follow the race and ethnicity standards and format for administrative forms and records established by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). These standards were first published by OMB in the Federal Register on October 30, 1997, and became effective on January 1, 2003.

[62 Fed. Reg. 58782 (October 30, 1997)] Last Reviewed June 20, 2018

Why does ATF Form 4473 ask for race and ethnicity? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[oldguy68]

Ok, so my race being recorded on a federal form will help them trace firearms found in crime scenes?
Identifying the proper owner of a firearm used in a crime by making sure he is the race listed on his 4473 forms.

So why do you ask me twice if I'm Hispanic?

 

[robjax]

although I know it is extremely important to teach young people about 2A, I think it equally important to teach children the meaning of the constitution and the bill of rights. More importantly the significance of the bill of rights and why the founding father's thought to include this protections....

I believe young people are unaware of the importance of that document or do not know what it is at all...

 

[AHM]

I attended a high school in rural Finland as an exchange student and our ... gym teacher ... required us to dive into a flooded quarry.

Finland Is Proud Of Its Forest Products Industry But Sisu Doesn't Grow On Trees Dept.​

Consider yourself lucky -
at least there was water in the quarry.

 

[Coyote33]

You're probably right. In contrast, I attended a high school in rural Finland as an exchange student and our gym classes were divided by sex. Our gym teacher took the entire group of us boys to a range to shoot trap and 22 rifles. I don't recall any letters being sent home or waivers being signed beforehand either. The same gym teacher also required us to dive into a flooded quarry.

I went to Finland when I was 13. The kids that age were doing water safety training. I had to swim 100 or maybe 200 yards (meters?) between two jetties in pretty cold water fully dressed with jeans and sneakers on. Did some other stuff as well. Ended up passing, and getting some badges and stickers for the effort. That always stuck with me.

 

[Coyote33]

FYI, my daughter got a 100 on her paper. Only one other kid in the class got that grade! Very proud.

 

[AHM]

Compare and contrast with Boscawen, NH's Hannah Duston monument.

See also Nashua's Hannah Duston monument.

Which is rather smaller.



Navigating to the street address,
I couldn't even find it on Friday to show to The Bride.

Hell, even this guy's dog can't find it.

Some local Garden Club types
have tarted up the tiny island at the road T with so many flowers
that it's hidden from casual view.