Tax Free Holiday Approved - 8/13-14/05

Nickle said:
What are the Mass laws on building your own?

If you can legally, it isn't real hard.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the laws are, but I would be interested in finding out.. I think I would enjoy building one.

Adam
 
You can build your own, (with a FFL'ed reciever) no problem.
as to the roll your own with like an 80% or 0% lower, I don't know, as long as you register it with an FA-10 form within 10 days of finishing it I think you would be fine. No other laws saying you can't that I am aware of.
you would have to assign/give it a sn but that would be it. Len will chime in if I got it wrong. :D
 
Yes, you can build your own guns in MA, just as long as any so-called AWBs are in post-ban config and hi-cap mags are pre-ban.

If you start with a receiver, you just need to do a 4473 to comply with the LAWS. EOPS and CHSB USED TO STATE that FA-10s weren't required since it wasn't a gun (MA definition was that it had to be able to fire a cartridge) when you bought it.

This made it easy for some dealers to sell you pistol frames for you to build up a gun legally . . . one that will never get certified for sale in MA.

According to Chief Ron Glidden in May (at the seminar we did at BR&P), EOPS/CHSB "HAS CHANGED THEIR MINDS" and now state that an FA-10 is required when you buy a frame and/or build a gun! [THIS FLYS IN THE FACE OF THE MGLs, BUT IN MA OFFICIALS CAN MAKE UP LAWS ON THE FLY . . . THE REAL LAW BE DAMNED!]

Of course this "policy change" happened with the new administration (new Sec. of Public Safety), with NO notice to the public (or dealers - I bet, but haven't verified). Thus putting people in potential violation that followed what they were told earlier was OK! I have NOT independently verified this. This idiocy might mean that those of us who own Thompson Contenders should file an FA-10 each time we change the gun's configuration (barrels are interchangeable).

Under the new policy, I don't know if those few dealers who would sell you pistol frames will still do so or not . . . for fear that the AG might stomp on them since the frame could not possibly meet his "consumer protection" regs and the frame wouldn't be on the EOPS List.

The whole thing makes me furious.
 
I'm not familiar enough with the 80% frames to answer. Check BATFE Regs and see my remarks on transferable frames on MA position (changes with the wind).
 
http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/st01/st01659.htm has the full text of the bill. It proposed the 2nd Saturday in Feb & Aug for tax-free days (with some limitations).

http://www.mass.gov/legis/ltsform.htm will allow you to track the current status of S. 1659. You need to do this because laws are like making sausage. What comes out rarely looks like what went in!

Currently the bill was referred to the Committee on Revenue and the House concurred. It's still a long way from conference committee and passing and any of the terms or dates could change along the way.
 
Every FFL transfered Lower (AR build) I have purchased has been run with an FA-10 or the eralier version of it.
I would think (Which is often not right ) that as long as you DO register it you should be okay. If I made a full home made rifle (I could as I have the tools) I would assign it a sn and register it . BATFE states that you can make your own gun just you can't sell it unless you are a licensed manf.. The so-called Loophole for the pistol frames I am not surprised it got shutdown.

LenS said:
Yes, you can build your own guns in MA, just as long as any so-called AWBs are in post-ban config and hi-cap mags are pre-ban.

If you start with a receiver, you just need to do a 4473 to comply with the LAWS. EOPS and CHSB USED TO STATE that FA-10s weren't required since it wasn't a gun (MA definition was that it had to be able to fire a cartridge) when you bought it.

This made it easy for some dealers to sell you pistol frames for you to build up a gun legally . . . one that will never get certified for sale in MA.

According to Chief Ron Glidden in May (at the seminar we did at BR&P), EOPS/CHSB "HAS CHANGED THEIR MINDS" and now state that an FA-10 is required when you buy a frame and/or build a gun! [THIS FLYS IN THE FACE OF THE MGLs, BUT IN MA OFFICIALS CAN MAKE UP LAWS ON THE FLY . . . THE REAL LAW BE DAMNED!]

Of course this "policy change" happened with the new administration (new Sec. of Public Safety), with NO notice to the public (or dealers - I bet, but haven't verified). Thus putting people in potential violation that followed what they were told earlier was OK! I have NOT independently verified this. This idiocy might mean that those of us who own Thompson Contenders should file an FA-10 each time we change the gun's configuration (barrels are interchangeable).

Under the new policy, I don't know if those few dealers who would sell you pistol frames will still do so or not . . . for fear that the AG might stomp on them since the frame could not possibly meet his "consumer protection" regs and the frame wouldn't be on the EOPS List.

The whole thing makes me furious.
Click to expand...
 
It's also my understanding that a serial # is NOT actually needed when making your own. And, you can sell a home made gun. However, you cannot manufacture it with that intention. A grey area.
 
I argree with the no sn for the FEDS, BUT this is Mass. thats why I suggested it. They need some kind of ID on the FA-10 registration form.

as for the selling of the home made firearm, That is not my understanding via BATFE regs. If you can show me in writing on the BATFE site or written regs then I will agree, I don't want to give folks the impression that they can do it and then they are prosacuted for it.

TonyD said:
It's also my understanding that a serial # is NOT actually needed when making your own. And, you can sell a home made gun. However, you cannot manufacture it with that intention. A grey area.
Click to expand...
 
Wildweasel said:
as for the selling of the home made firearm, That is not my understanding via BATFE regs. If you can show me in writing on the BATFE site or written regs then I will agree, I don't want to give folks the impression that they can do it and then they are prosacuted for it.
Click to expand...

The BATFE says that you MAY sell it.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2000_ref.pdf

(10) The term "manufacturer" means any person engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of sale or distribution; and the term "licensed manufacturer" means any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

(21) The term "engaged in the business" means -
(A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time,
attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;

§ 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(1) for any person -
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer,
to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or

(A7) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?
With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided
it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms.
However, a person is prohibited from making a semiautomatic assault weapon or assembling a nonsporting semiautomatic rifle or nonsporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o), (r), (v), and 923, 27 CFR 178.39, 178.40, 178.41 and
179.105]
Click to expand...

A7's conditions are met if you can legally possess the firearm, and the firearm you make is legal to possess. You can't make a FAL or AK without the appropriate number of US parts. You can't make a rifle that doesn't conform to YOUR state's laws.
 
Wildweasel said:
I argree with the no sn for the FEDS, BUT this is Mass. thats why I suggested it. They need some kind of ID on the FA-10 registration form.
Click to expand...

I have this mental image of stamping the characters "N" "O" "N" "E" on a home-built rifle and then typing NONE in the space for the serial number... but then, I'm a well-known wise-ass.[lol]

Ross
 
dwarven1 said:
I have this mental image of stamping the characters "N" "O" "N" "E" on a home-built rifle and then typing NONE in the space for the serial number... but then, I'm a well-known wise-ass.[lol]
Click to expand...

I do so like this man. [lol]
 
Lynne said:
dwarven1 said:
I have this mental image of stamping the characters "N" "O" "N" "E" on a home-built rifle and then typing NONE in the space for the serial number... but then, I'm a well-known wise-ass.[lol]
Click to expand...

I do so like this man. [lol]
Click to expand...

*blush* [oops] [oops] [oops]
 
Wildweasel said:
I argree with the no sn for the FEDS, BUT this is Mass. thats why I suggested it. They need some kind of ID on the FA-10 registration form.

as for the selling of the home made firearm, That is not my understanding via BATFE regs. If you can show me in writing on the BATFE site or written regs then I will agree, I don't want to give folks the impression that they can do it and then they are prosacuted for it.

TonyD said:
It's also my understanding that a serial # is NOT actually needed when making your own. And, you can sell a home made gun. However, you cannot manufacture it with that intention. A grey area.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Glenn, I don't have chapter and verse but I'm sure someone will come up with it. The key phrase is with "the intention of sales". You cannot manufacture if you're planning to sell. However, it does not preclude you from selling a home made firearm if, let's say, you were selling of your collection to pay a debt, or get a down payment for house, sometime down the road.

The SN thing worries me that some fed somewhere could say you manufactured with the intent to sell because you serialized it. A devil's advocate thing, in my mind. Serializing is mainly to track a firearm throughout the chain of custody, so to speak. Since you made it for you, and only you (never intending to sell), you would have no need to assign it a number. Recognizing in case of theft is secondary.
 
Well I tend to err on the side of caution, While you may be able to sell it after a reasonable period, (again so you are not engaged in the bussiness of manf)
If push came to shove you would have to prove it.
And you know innocent till proven guilty doesn't really apply in the real world of BATFE. (You would have to be doing something wrong to be noticed true.)

The part that Nickle provided Does not say you CAN sell it.
As long as you can prove you are not under the definition of manf you should be okay.

SN, well again this is for Mass. (I am willing to lay odds that Mass public safty would reject the FA-10 form without a sn. it is a feloney in Mass NOT to register it so I am Darn sure GOING to register it if I make one. )
remember Mass is in NO WAY a free state, and this is what I am referring to in my posts on this matter. I will err on the side of caution in mass as long as I live here.

SN other states-
but it could be argued that you want some Idetifing mark to prove it is yours. so you could just put your Name on it.
no way that could be construed as used for manf .

Until this last year I have been a C&R FFL and spent alot of time reading the posted book O'laws. (but I haven't made a gun so didn't spend alot of time on that part.)
 
Do Mass laws specifically address home made firearms? I'm obviously not familiar with your laws and only vaguely familiar with the federal laws on this topic. Like I said before, "It's my understanding". I've not made one either but have considered it and looked into it a little.
 
Mass laws do not really address the issue but under the definition of firearm I think it is clear a homemade gun would need to be registered.
(again this if for a 0-80% lower build on say an AR type weapon, )
for a transfered compleate frame it is addressed.

Mass laws at best are confusing and barely understandable. LenS has a very good handle on them, and I try to stay up on them myself. (for self preservation! if nothing else)

Frankly if I was to make say a lower for an ar I would not sell it ,maybe the full parts kit but not the lower. Mostly for personal liability reasons.
My dad was sued years ago for bogus reasons and I know how F-ed up the legal system is.

On that note- back to the sales tax holiday!
 
This idiocy might mean that those of us who own Thompson Contenders should file an FA-10 each time we change the gun's configuration
Click to expand...

That's insane. So everytime I go from the .308 to the .45LC/410 I would have to do that? What about when you change you AR upper from .223 to a .22 or a .308 upper? Or even the .50 upper?
 
Cypher - Unintended Consequences!!

Do you think we might get their attention if we filed the paperwork each time we changed a barrel? Sometimes giving bureaucrats what they ask for can work in your favor. [twisted] [twisted] [twisted] [wink]
 
As long as the base weapon is registered I cannot see a reason to have to Re-register it. Same SN . I think you are jumping to conclusions.
 

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