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Talk about a squib
- Thread starter jkelly1229
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Fixxah
NES Member
Went there on honeymoon. Didn't see that but at one battlefield there is a cannon which has a projectile jammed in it's muzzle from enemy fire. I have many pics taken from that God aweful tower.
Devils Paintbrush
NES Member
Been there and have seen it, pretty amazing.
I was thinking the same. With muskets, people would sometimes load a second or third ball without noticing, maybe that's what happened. Or ... they didn't ram the ball all the way down and left and space between the powder and ball.
there are a feww interesting cannons around there with battle damage. think theres another 1-2 burst tubes in visitors center. only breech loading guns at gettysburg were on oak hill, which there are a few of there today.
thios is by far favorite gun that was at the battle of gettysburg (most guns on battlefield though original prob were not at the real battle)
is on display at RI statehouse
if in gettysburg not only visit the park, but look at the buildings in town. see alot with traces of battle still present.
thios is by far favorite gun that was at the battle of gettysburg (most guns on battlefield though original prob were not at the real battle)
is on display at RI statehouse
if in gettysburg not only visit the park, but look at the buildings in town. see alot with traces of battle still present.
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there are a feww interesting cannons around there with battle damage. think theres another 1-2 burst tubes in visitors center. only breech loading guns at gettysburg were on oak hill, which there are a few of there today.
thios is by far favorite gun that was at the battle of gettysburg (most guns on battlefield though original prob were not at the real battle)
is on display at RI statehouse
if in gettysburg not only visit the park, but look at the buildings in town. see alot with traces of battle still present.
so funny story about that providence one is that it was loaded until about 30years ago it was damaged and the providence battery tried to load it after it was damaged. No one thought about this for about this for a hundred years. When they finally flushed it they got a pound and a half of powder out.
SteelShooter
NES Member
Thread revival, I was just at Gettysburg on Saturday. Quite an unbelievable place, I walked the battlefield from one end to the other for 7 hours, amazing. But, I saw this fact:
After the battle 37,574 rifles laying on the battlefield were collected.
• 24,000 were still loaded
• 6,000 had one round in the barrel
• 12,000 had two rounds in the barrel
• 6,000 had three to ten rounds in the barrel
The weapons with multiple rounds had probably been loaded but not “capped,” meaning when the trigger was pulled and the hammer struck there was nothing to ignite the powder. In the noise and excitement of the battle the soldier hadn’t noticed and kept reloading his gun. Had they remembered to cap their weapon after cramming half a dozen rounds in, it would have gone off like a bomb.
Almost half the rifles found would not have fired if loaded correctly.
After the battle 37,574 rifles laying on the battlefield were collected.
• 24,000 were still loaded
• 6,000 had one round in the barrel
• 12,000 had two rounds in the barrel
• 6,000 had three to ten rounds in the barrel
The weapons with multiple rounds had probably been loaded but not “capped,” meaning when the trigger was pulled and the hammer struck there was nothing to ignite the powder. In the noise and excitement of the battle the soldier hadn’t noticed and kept reloading his gun. Had they remembered to cap their weapon after cramming half a dozen rounds in, it would have gone off like a bomb.
Almost half the rifles found would not have fired if loaded correctly.
I dealt with a brand new 105mm howitzer as a maintenance officer in the army that had a stuck projo! By brand new I mean it was at fort drum for its first firing! 7th round never exited! EOD used a water blast charge to blow the projo out the breech. Protocol is to send the gun to Depot Maintenance after a water blast charge to check for bulging. Measured it with a Lazer and yes it was bulged. That barrel cost $250,000 to replace. Funniest thing though on the gun card the unit turned in the Gunner wrote for the round count 6 1/2 lol
At the Springfield Armory Museum, the curator there told me at a while back someone donated a musket from the Civil War to the museum. It had been a battle field pick up that lived in their closet for all those years and it was time for them to move it out. So, they make the arrangements and got the rifle to the museum. The first thing they do now is x-ray the barrel to see if there are any patches loaded in there. It beats using the ramrod. Sure enough, there were five patches in that one rifle, all perfectly sealed against the weather, too. As expected, that rifle had been dropped and then picked up and loaded and dropped again and again until it was finally quiet. He also told me that there have been restorers who were injured by a blast from the past because they didn't take the proper precautions to see if it was loaded.
About 10 years ago, no kidding, I picked up a Hawkins muzzle loader at a shop here in CT. I was looking for something to use as a teaching tool. It was a nice model and I grabbed the ramrod and shoved it into the barrel and guess what? The damned think was still loaded! I really got on the owner of the shop as this could have been a bad day for someone. He got it out just fine and dandy and gave me a really good price on it. True story.
We also have visited Gettysburg. I can HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you hire one of the personal docents who are usually at the main desk looking for customers. They will drive your car with you in it to the sites and give you a first hand account of what transpired. We were in awe.....literally, at our docent's grasp of the area and the battle details. Highly Recommend it.
Rome
Just a point of order here. As it pertains to legal ramifications for muzzle loaders. A muzzle loading weapon with powder and projectile only is NOT loaded. It is charged. It only becomes loaded when a primer is seated or frizzen is primed.
There is a huge difference as it is legal to transport a muzzle loader in a vehicle with powder and projo seated and primer removed
True. Not one who has a lot of experience with these types of rifles, I was unaware of the technical difference between being charged and being loaded. Thanks for that clarification! PS I've been meaning to tell you that that's one smart avatar you've got there.
Yeah recoil and yoga pants equal happiness!
A charged muzzle loader never concerns me. It's really no different than any carteridge! Actually......It's safer than a carteridge because there is no primer. I saw a guy flip out at the range yelling at his friend because he brought a muzzle loader with him that had been charged and never fired since deer season......It was may! The guy was all "you put a loaded gun in my car"?!?! Damn we could have been arrested for a loaded gun in a vehicle......And what if it discharged??!?! For the love of Christ simmer down his friend said....It's not loaded.......And it's no different than My other ammo you have in your bag.
One difference......When transporting powder or powder substitute I keep the primers in a separate bag for obvious reasons.
The real danger is if someone does not recognize it's charged and Rams another charge home and tries to fire it.
The legal definition of "loaded" muzzle loader is for hunters using them for deer season. If you go out in the woods and dont see a deer.......You are not expected to remove the charge (by shooting it or pulling it) to transport it in a vehicle Just remove the primer and you are legally unloaded.
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This cannon from the HMS Confiance sits in front of Macdonough Hall at the US Naval Academy. It was struck in the muzzle by a ball from a US at the start of the Battle of Plattsburgh (Lake Champlain) in 1814. The force knocked the cannon off its mounting, crushing and killing the British captain.
MisterHappy
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This is correct for Massachusetts. Other states may vary (I only teach this stuff for Mass, so.....) YMMV
You're correct - I refer to it as a "charged" gun. Cabinet is also correct that it's very bad practice to have a charged ML on the shelf!
Three Rules, Baby!
amm5061
NES Member
Since we're talking about this again, here's a picture of the only breechloading cannon used at Gettysburg from my trip last spring. An English 12lb Whitworth Rifle from Ewell's corps artillery. They actually loaded it from the muzzle because the breach loading was problematic and prone to jamming. Just a fun tidbit.
If you get the opportunity to sit at the top of little round top as the sun sets , I highly recommend it.
It's a perfect time to reflect on what men where willing to endure for a cause.
As brutal as modern warfare can be, there were a hundred things you could die from other than bullets back then.
It's a perfect time to reflect on what men where willing to endure for a cause.
As brutal as modern warfare can be, there were a hundred things you could die from other than bullets back then.
SteelShooter
NES Member
Yea, I was in total awe. I did the museum, the car tour and then walked the entire battlefield. I sat on little round top for at least an hour. I plan to go back around the 4th, just to get the full effect. There is an RV park just in the other side of big round walking distance to the battlefield.
There were more casualties in the war from infection and related things than actual Kia (although I think that's still technically Kia )
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It was awesome we did that the guy we had was fantastic
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Still cant even imagine what was going through some guys heads when the order for Pickett's charge was given. Like I gotta walk across that mile and a half of open ground. Hard pass on that captain
And knowing what was waiting for you at the other end too.
10,000 rifles and about 120 pieces of artillery stuffed with canister.
SteelShooter
NES Member
Or the Minnesota regiment of 200 that had to cover a middle section of the field against 1200 confederates, knowing that their only job was to not die too quickly to give time for the other regiments to get there. Had they not done that, 79% were killed, the battle most likely would have been lost.
