Take Back America

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Hey, it worked for Vermont. I think it will work for the US.

Look, most of us have been bickering about the election results. Well, la-de-da. It's over. McCain lost. Get over it. The time for crying over spilt milk is over.

You can't un-elect Obama.

If you want a thread to gripe and cry in, try one of the Obama threads, leave this one alone. Trust me, if this thread devolves into the usual bickering, I'll ask the Mods to remove or delete posts, and if needed, to completely delete the thread. Bicker and fight elsewhere.

If you want to start the process of fixing what's wrong, then join me.

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So, WHERE do we go from here?

I have some ideas, and methods to start the process.

I'm already doing some of it, on a National level, with a non-profit gun rights group. RWVA and Project Appleseed. Yup, one of our very own NES'ers just hapens to be real active there. Not just an active poster, but an active DOER.

The way I see it, we can make sure the face of Congress changes as much as possible in 2 years. To do so, we're going to have to educate a whole mess of people.

Unlike the past 8 years, this time around, many more of them are ready to listen. Yeah, they aren't right now, but, give it a month or two, even before BHO takes office. The cabinet he picks will be telling. There's been jokes here about him picking an all-black cabinet. He won't, and if his Chief of Staff pick is a real indicator, he's going to make even the minority groups pay attention to us.

We can use some of these very same points back on the Dem's and BHO, and even the politicians that set us up for these crappy choices.

So, WHO is with me on this?
 
I agree I'm beyond being pissed. Ive gone into "survival" mode trying to figure out a way to get out of this mess......the bigger question is where do we start? I feel like forums and shared ideas arent enough. We really need to find a way to gather and unite in the formal 3d world to give face to the millions of usernames throughout the internet.......hmmmm but how....[thinking]
 
I have already made a promise to myself to become much more active in the political scene. Make calls, hold signs, do my part anyway I can. I am in for any other suggestions as I know of only so many ways to become more active.
 
what I think is so great about this is that the media is all crazed about how active its made people to get behind the new president elect....what they missed the mark on is how active the people defending their rights (us and others alike) are preparing to get to rally our cause....perhaps adopting how they did it would be a start.....it seemed to work

Getting more members to groups such as NES G.O.A.L, and the NRA would help too....I plan on joining the latter of the two right away....
 
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What I've been doing that last few days is urging my gun-owner friends to join GOAL and NRA. I've been personally involved in helping two of my friends apply for their LTC's. One's already got it and another should have it soon. I've got a good amount of liberal friends that will never have anything to do with guns, but I try make them understand that not every gun owner is a redneck paranoid war monger (as one friend likes to generalize us as).

There are plenty of things we can do to help uphold our 2A rights, and I'm focusing on what I can do immediately. We need to bring more people to our side... THE GOOD SIDE!!
 
I cannot believe this happened. Moments ago a total liberal Dem agreed with me about Hussein's stance on guns! He said, I have guns and I want the right to be able to use them. I was totally shocked. Naturally then another liberal Dem heard the conversation walked over and said, "If you don't hunt, why do you have guns?" *Sigh*

Rob - winning them over one person at a time.
 
I'm in for however I can help. I already signed up for the Patriot's Day Appleeseed at Harvard. I'm hoping to get the elusive 210 and sign up as an IIT. I'll be promoting it to anyone who will listen. My GOAL endorsed state rep won a pretty close election. I'm not going to let him forget that gun owners helped put him in office and we can help put him out if he doesn't vote with us. I'm all ears for more ideas.
 
I think you have hit upon the only way to bring us back. I'm willing to do my part.
 
What was it there about Vermont?

http://www.vermontguardian.com/commentary/092006/Sept29Editorial.shtml

“Take Back Vermont” was the mantra of the anti-civil unions contingent and others who wanted to return the state to its more Republican roots, as opposed to the supposed Socialist mecca it had become thanks to the foreign imported values of flatlanders — those anathema to privacy- and property-rights loving “real” Vermonters.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_19_52/ai_65805906

Simply Google "TAKE BACK VERMONT" with the quotation marks, and read away.

That could be our initial message.

The means is simple. We work within the current system, always polite, always extending our hand to the other side.

Let them get ugly and violent. Let them shoot their mouths off. It only plays more and more into our hands.

See, the election wasn't a landslide, by any means. It never is. Even when Reagan trounced Mondale in 1984, it wasn't all that close. Highest percentage gathered in my lifetime (54 years this month) was LBJ in 1964.

So, we don't have to persuade the rabid moonbats, and we never will persuade them anyways.

No, we only need to persuade the "moderates" to leave the Democrats in the dust.

No, I do not advocate we blindly follow the Republican party. I advocate we take it over, and work from within to bring it back to the old ways. Along the way, we should pick up a vast majority of the Libertarian Party, as their ideals aren't much different than a true conservative's ideals.

We get the GOP in leadership of Congress in 2010.

That should be fairly easy, as the Extreme Leftists in the DNC have a stranglehold on Congress and their party right now. They will do most of the work for us. We just need to make sure the public knows it. They will, because when taxes go up, campaign promises aren't met, "Mr Change" becomes "Mr Business as Usual" and together they get absolutely nothing done (as they haven't in the past 2 years they've had Congress), the American Public will see the luster gone from the Socialist "Swan Song".

Then, for 2012, we get some DECENT Conservatives, not "Neo-Cons" to run. Men like Ron Paul, Jim Douglas and maybe even Fred Thompson.

Now, we really start by a multi-level approach.

First, get people that have never been shooting out shooting. Rifle, pistol, doesn't matter. Shooting. Shooting something that won't scare them. .22's are good for this.

We also start writing. Politicians are always good, but, we all know that writing the Liberal Elitists doesn't work. You need to write your local papers (Opinion or Letters to the Editor), too. Make sure to call out your politicians. Yes, they read the paper. More importantly, voters read those letters. This is where you hammer the bejeezus out of Kennedy, Kerry, Frank and their kind. Make sure what you write is true, and use the appropriate "buzzwords", like "Victimn Disarmament" and "Criminal Protection Zones", as that's what they really are.

Joining GOAL and the NRA is good, but not near enough. Get on a few "activist forums", like the ones in my signature line. Work within their goals and plans, as some of them already are fighting the good fight.
 
I'm in for however I can help. I already signed up for the Patriot's Day Appleeseed at Harvard. I'm hoping to get the elusive 210 and sign up as an IIT. I'll be promoting it to anyone who will listen. My GOAL endorsed state rep won a pretty close election. I'm not going to let him forget that gun owners helped put him in office and we can help put him out if he doesn't vote with us. I'm all ears for more ideas.

That State Rep? Bring him with you. He shoots for free, and coming will help him AND us.
 
I agree with the sentiment, but count me out supporting the GOP. I disagree with them about almost everything except guns. (Who i sleep with, what I do with my body, torture, etc).

But every congressman will see you if you make an appointment. If you're polite, sincere and have well thought-out arguments, a lot of otherwise "liberal" people will come over to our side. I got my father-in-law, a self described liberal, interested in mounted cowboy shooting. I got my father (RIP) a self-described radial, to oppose gun-control because he didn't trust the FBI to be the only people with guns.

The gunning community is potentially huge. But we consistently shoot ourselves in the foot with stupid tactics. When you act like a bunker-sitting maniac looking for black helicopters, people won't take you seriously. You will however, have convinced them you are dangerous and need to be disarmed.

We can whine all we want to about stupid legislators, and I'll join right in. But face it folks, sometimes we can be our own worst enemies.

Refresh your legislator's memory. The Brady Bill was packaged with a whole bunch of other crime-busting stuff that was pretty popular, including Community Development Block Grants to hire more cops. That's one reason why it got a lot of votes even from people who otherwise weren't so crazy about it.

But the Brady Bill was a huge factor in costing the Democrats their majority in 1994. We need to remind our congress critters of this on a regular basis. They may not lose their seat here in New England, but if they lose the majority, their legislative careers just got hammered.

The facts are on our side. I have a call in to Niki Tsongas' office as of today. If necessary I can take the train down to DC for the day to see her. I urge you all to do the same.
 
I agree with the sentiment, but count me out supporting the GOP. I disagree with them about almost everything except guns. (Who i sleep with, what I do with my body, torture, etc).

But every congressman will see you if you make an appointment. If you're polite, sincere and have well thought-out arguments, a lot of otherwise "liberal" people will come over to our side. I got my father-in-law, a self described liberal, interested in mounted cowboy shooting. I got my father (RIP) a self-described radial, to oppose gun-control because he didn't trust the FBI to be the only people with guns.

The gunning community is potentially huge. But we consistently shoot ourselves in the foot with stupid tactics. When you act like a bunker-sitting maniac looking for black helicopters, people won't take you seriously. You will however, have convinced them you are dangerous and need to be disarmed.

We can whine all we want to about stupid legislators, and I'll join right in. But face it folks, sometimes we can be our own worst enemies.

Refresh your legislator's memory. The Brady Bill was packaged with a whole bunch of other crime-busting stuff that was pretty popular, including Community Development Block Grants to hire more cops. That's one reason why it got a lot of votes even from people who otherwise weren't so crazy about it.

But the Brady Bill was a huge factor in costing the Democrats their majority in 1994. We need to remind our congress critters of this on a regular basis. They may not lose their seat here in New England, but if they lose the majority, their legislative careers just got hammered.

The facts are on our side. I have a call in to Niki Tsongas' office as of today. If necessary I can take the train down to DC for the day to see her. I urge you all to do the same.

Count me in Nickle. Maybe I see things a bit differently than most, but the way I see it the Obama win HAD to happen. It had to happen so that people would wake up and do one of two things: take back the Republican party from those who have stolen and corrupted it ( done all the things that Bill Nance mentions he doesn't like) or - start another conservative/libertarian party.

For whatever it is worth Ron Paul has said that if a true Revolution is to start in politics in this country, it is going to have to start locally.

I read a guy named Gary North frequently - he was an aide to Ron Paul and has been involved in conservative politics for a long time (I believe the guy is in his 80's now) - and he has stressed the same thing - if a real movement is to start, it will and must begin locally.
 
I'm already an IIT with Appleseed and have taken steps to become an NRA certified instructor and RSO among others. I plan on submitting an application to Mass. for state certification once I get the NRA paperwork done even though I'll be a NH resident shortly.
 
Its all about talking to people, and getting those who are willing to listen to get to the range. I have a handful of people I'm working on trying to get them to the range or even get their LTCs. When people have a chance to realize whats at stake often times their opinions change.
 
I'm in but then I have always been in. I'm so freakin' pissed over the fact that in my
generation I have contributed to screwing America up for my three boys that I was
looking for some way out (haven't found one yet) of what is sure to be Carter II (or worse)
so you have lifted my spirits somewhat with your post.
 
Simply Google "TAKE BACK VERMONT" with the quotation marks, and read away.


This is a great thread, and I applaud the poster. But not before I call him out on the "Take Back Vermont" analogy:

Maybe I missed your point, but as someone born and raised in rural Vermont who fought against the "Take Back Vermont Movement", it seems ironic that you would use a decidedly anti-Libertarian model to argue for gun owners rights.

For those of you who don't know, the "Take Back Vermont" movement was mostly aimed at nixing civil unions. Much of it that I personally encountered was bigoted propaganda in the extreme.

If I'm misreading your application of "Take Back Vermont", please enlighten me.

Neo-con models are clearly not working for the GOP. They alienate too many people. What happened to the moderate pre-neocon (paleocon?) platforms? Movements like "Take Back Vermont" are precisely why the Democrats are in power now.

In many ways, I feel proud that America elected Obama. He is not muslim (not that this should matter anyway), socialist, or communist in spite of what many say here. He is a good American who has the qualities of a great leader. I'll be watching the next four years with hope and great interest. For a country that only 150 years ago had legal slavery, the pulling-up-by-the-bootsraps ascent and subsequent election of someone descended from slave owners and slaves is a story that every American should be able to appreciate. No other nation on earth can boast this, and in my mind it is a proof that the American experiment is working. I am proud of our country, and Tuesday was a day I'll remember for a long time (both Obama's election and McCain's gracious, courageous concession speech.)

That said, I too am fearful of our rights as gun owners. I'm a staunch 2A supporter who believes lawful gun ownership and carry is an important part of personal liberty and freedom. I am stepping up my donations to my chosen pro-2A organizations. I'm also actively writing my representatives, and trying to expose non-shooters to the shooting sports. It doesn't look good for us, but I see a silver lining: nothing will motivate us more as a community than the threat of our rights being taken away. Nothing will incite us to fight back more than a systematic attempt to curtail our god-given rights.

Let's not forget one thing as we organize for our 2A rights: America since its founding has been an argument between the Federalists and Antifederalists as originally personified by Hamilton and Jefferson respectively. This argument will never go away. It is built into the American political system.

Right now the Federalists are on top. This, of course, will not last when the pendulum swings back. Our political system is an argument that depends on the push and pull between these two camps to tease out and test new ideas, policies and ultimately to engage the public in a dynamic ever-evolving political system.

Again, I hope this doesn't derail the discussion. I feel my comments are relevant because if we're going to actually put something together that successfully preserves and articulates our 2A rights, we can't depend on neo-conservative models like the "Take Back Vermont" movement.

I see this as an opportunity for us to cement our rights in stone. Heller paved the way. Let's not slow our momentum by dragging dead-weight neo-conservative ideologies along with us.
 
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For better or worse, we are a country of two parties. We are a country of left and right. Most people in the country are not "left" or "right", but there is a left and a right position on all issues and gun control is no exception. In this case, the right is generally more on our side than the left.

It is good to support moderate democrats who are fiscally or socially conservative on some issues. However, these politicians get their funding and support from the democratic party and they will be pressured to vote the party line on many issues including gun control.

If you're really serious about protecting your gun rights, it means supporting the right and republicans. The only thing that democrats really listen to are elections they lose to republicans (and vice versa of course). For republicans to get back into power I suspect that the party needs to:

* Take up more moderate positions on social issues (specifically abortion). People are more receptive to advocacy than they are to imposition.

The party platform should soften language on Roe vs Wade, stop talking about banning all abortions, and focus on advocacy - the Guiliani-style pro-life movement that focuses less on banning abortion and more on encouraging adoption, etc.

Most of the GOP is already with moderates on gay marriage. The word marriage should mean man & woman and there should be good and equivalent civil union provisions.

* The party needs to get back to real fiscal conservatism. It needs to propose meaningful reforms to entitlement programs and explain why it's important.

* When the party proposes tax cuts it needs to talk about increased revenue. If you're in the business of paying for and providing services, when you raise revenue, your goal is to raise the most revenue you can. It's not to punish people who are "too productive" or give money away to people that "aren't as productive". Most Americans still don't know that you can cut taxes and increase revenues at the same time.

* The party needs to point out all the ways the left loves to get into people's lives and tell them what to do. People hate having things imposed on them.

Republicans want the word marriage to retain the same definition it's had in most of recorded history and it wants people to stop killing babies. But Democrats wants to tell you what you can and can't eat, what kinds of energy you can and can't use, if and where you can smoke a cigarette, what can be said on the radio and how. The list of things that the left elite thinks everyone should be forced to do or not do under penalty of law is a mile long. They "know better" and if you weren't such an ignorant hick, you'd thank them for it. That can be powerful stuff at election time.

* Our schools are so focused on building self-esteem, multi-culturalism, providing every opportunity for the most challenged kids, and other political correctness that they forget to teach the "normal" kids how to read and write. Republicans need to advocate their values and try to change the way we teach and the way we spend our money. There's no reason why our schools should be amongst the most expensive and the lowest performing.

* Republicans really need to start attack the word entitled in general. You're entitled to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You are not entitled to a college education. You are not entitled to cradle-to-grave welfare. Someone needs to stand up and make the argument that these ideas need to be paid for. If everyone is on the receiving end, who's doing the paying?

I love that people want to get more people into shooting. I think we should persuade liberals and democrats that the second amendment wasn't about state militias and wasn't a mistake. But if you want real impact, I suspect your time is better spent on GOP candidates and advocating issues. (and if you can somehow get a better republican to stand up and challenge a republican incumbent more power to ya)

I'd say that's my .02, but it's more like a $1.50.
 
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