T/C Omega5 B.P. inline muzzle loader

[Coyote33]

I didn't see a specific "black powder" or "muzzle loader" forum area, so I'll ask here.

I just picked up a T/C Omega 5 at KTP. Pretty neat gun. Got a cleaning kit, some primers, some sabot bullets, and some powder disc things. So far, so good. The front fiber sight was broken, so was able to have the archery guy put in a spare fiber, but it looks a bit small (skinny).

Anyhow, a couple newbie questions and observations.
1) How many shots is reasonable before needing to clean?
2) If spending time at the range, how thorough or not should cleanings be?
3) Accuracy was horrendous. Hoping it was me, and not the reason this gun was traded in at KTP.
4) I saw a youtuber video, who said to loosen stock, then tighten back screw first, then front; in order to improve accuracy. Anyone else hear that?
5) That ramrod is pretty tough to push down that dang pipe. I used a rock, so it wouldn't dig into my hand. Am I doing it wrong, or just need to grow a pair?
6) I didn't hurt myself, or do anything wrong, so that's a plus.
7) The relative simplicity of this is neat. I like that after the drama of loading and shooting, there is nothing left in the gun to worry about (yes, continue treating as if loaded, etc.)
8) This is not as inexpensive to shoot as I was thinking it might be. Do people use different bullets for training?
9) These disc things; can you use regular "powder" in these "black powder" guns also.
10) Any special formula. I think the guy set me up with something called 777 and these yellow sabots to start.
11) Do people have a better carrying system for components than the store bubble packages? I can't imagine these in the woods while hunting. I've seen the "speed-loader" tube things, but that doesn't account for the primers.
12) The breech plug removal wrench. I have a 7/16 socket which fits perfectly, but don't want to have to carry my big ratchet wrench around with me if I ever needed it in the woods.
13) What else do people actually carry with them when hunting?
14) What else do people bring with to the range?
15) Does everybody use two of those 777 pellets? Seems to work OK, and be a good compromise of boom and smoke. Not sure of actual FPS, but it's gotta be pretty good, as that's what a couple of the KTP guys said to use.
16) Right now, sticking with fiber sights. Is there an OK 3X or 4X tops scope that can take the BP blast? Looking for lightweight/compact/bright/inexpensive; not powerful or complicated (zoom).
17) Anything else I'm missing?

 

[Dadstoys]

I have one
Pretty damn accurate even with open sights and my bad eyes.
Three shots at the range , pull the plug and run a few patches though.
The T/C super glide sabots load pretty easy.
If you don't have a ball / sabot starter ,you probably want to get one ( short T handle ) to get it a couple of inches down the barrel before you use the ramrod.
Clean the piss out of it when your done , even pyrodex is filthy
You will notice a crud ring right at the top of where the pellets sit at the bottom of the barrel when you pull the plug and look in.
Bore brush the crap out of that area .12 gauge brush Will work.
The bore is chrome lines so its not too hard to clean
The only easy load your going to get is the first clean one
Order yourself a "palm saver" . it a rubber deal that goes over the end of the rod. Your hand will thank you.
They do make speed loaders specifically for in lines and sabot bullets there is a spot on them for the 209 primers.
The triple seven pellets are fine .I use two.
They make what's called "possibles bags " that go on your belt specifically for black powder shooters camo cloth with a zipper set up to hold all your stuff.
On your next clean first load , mark the ramrod right at the barrel for a reference that your bullet is seated all the way down next time.
They make a compact breach plug wrench that will fit in a possibles bag.
Also make sure to clean the hell out of the breach plug, soak it in solvent for a while ,it helps.
I also stick a common pin in my bag to clear the touch hole in a pinch .

 

[Sparkey]

Dadstoys
Nailed good advice
Mind is more accurate then I am
Some guys shoot 3 pellets of powder I never have and shoot out to 100yds fine

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I didn't see a specific "black powder" or "muzzle loader" forum area, so I'll ask here.

I just picked up a T/C Omega 5 at KTP. Pretty neat gun. Got a cleaning kit, some primers, some sabot bullets, and some powder disc things. So far, so good. The front fiber sight was broken, so was able to have the archery guy put in a spare fiber, but it looks a bit small (skinny).

Anyhow, a couple newbie questions and observations.
1) How many shots is reasonable before needing to clean?
I run a spit patch and then a dry patch between shots.
Loosen and relighted the breech plug every 3-4 shots or so. If you don’t you might have a hello a time getting it out.
2) If spending time at the range, how thorough or not should cleanings be?
Thoroughly clean it.
3) Accuracy was horrendous. Hoping it was me, and not the reason this gun was traded in at KTP.
What load were you shooting? You will have to experiment with projectiles and powder loads to find a good load. You get more flexibility with loose powder.
4) I saw a youtuber video, who said to loosen stock, then tighten back screw first, then front; in order to improve accuracy. Anyone else hear that?
Not specifically, but it is always wise to check fasteners.
5) That ramrod is pretty tough to push down that dang pipe. I used a rock, so it wouldn't dig into my hand. Am I doing it wrong, or just need to grow a pair?
Get a good “T” handles range rod. I have this one:
Cabela's Universal Muzzleloader Range Rod : Cabela's
6) I didn't hurt myself, or do anything wrong, so that's a plus.
Always a bonus.
7) The relative simplicity of this is neat. I like that after the drama of loading and shooting, there is nothing left in the gun to worry about (yes, continue treating as if loaded, etc.)
It can be a lot of fun for sure.
8) This is not as inexpensive to shoot as I was thinking it might be. Do people use different bullets for training?
Modern muzzleloading projectiles and pellet powders are expensive.
9) These disc things; can you use regular "powder" in these "black powder" guns also.
Yes, cheaper and easier to work up a load by varying the powder charge in 5 g increments. Start at 80g and go up until the groups shrink. When they start to expand again stop.
10) Any special formula. I think the guy set me up with something called 777 and these yellow sabots to start.
I use 777. It is a good powder. There are others you can try. Start with what you have. Remember that black powder is measured by volume not weight.
11) Do people have a better carrying system for components than the store bubble packages? I can't imagine these in the woods while hunting. I've seen the "speed-loader" tube things, but that doesn't account for the primers.
There are silicone holders for the primers as well:
I use these there is a place for the primer in the silicone end,
Thompson Center Accessories 35009613 Rip-Cord Flex Load, Single

These shoot well out of my TC Impact:
Hornady® SST-ML Low Drag Lock-N-Load® Speed Sabots with Flex Tip Technology : Cabela's

I keep the speed loaders in a sandwich bag and put them in my pocket. This keeps them dry from the elements and perspiration. I discard my primers after the hunt. I also tape the barrel end when hunting. You can’t clear the chamber and look down it. It also keeps moisture out.

12) The breech plug removal wrench. I have a 7/16 socket which fits perfectly, but don't want to have to carry my big ratchet wrench around with me if I ever needed it in the woods.

It should have come with one. The “T” handle slides into the rubber plug in the end so it is easy to toss in your pocket.

Thompson Center 31007764 T/C Breech Plug Wrench for 209x50

13) What else do people actually carry with them when hunting?
I carry two reloads and the breech plug wrench.
14) What else do people bring with to the range?
Powder, projectiles, range rod, patch material, lead Sled
15) Does everybody use two of those 777 pellets? Seems to work OK, and be a good compromise of boom and smoke. Not sure of actual FPS, but it's gotta be pretty good, as that's what a couple of the KTP guys said to use.
I’m currently running 3- 50g pellets. They also come in 60g so that gives you some flexibility in loads. 100g, 110g, 120g,
16) Right now, sticking with fiber sights. Is there an OK 3X or 4X tops scope that can take the BP blast? Looking for lightweight/compact/bright/inexpensive; not powerful or complicated (zoom).
I have a Nikon Prostaff on mine and it has held up well.

17) Anything else I'm missing?

Not that I can think of. Plain soap and water clean up.

When I store it I oil it like any other firearm but before I load it I run a couple dry swabs before loading it. Oil and powder don’t mix well.

I use automotive anti seize on the threads of the breech plug.

Bob

ETA:
My responses are in the quote. You have to expand it to see them.

 

[rocket500]

Scope wise they don’t kick super hard and any scope that will work on a centerfire rifle should hold up fine.

Simmons makes a 4x fixed shotgun scope that’s about 60 bucks that makes a good muzzleloader scope. There’s not a lot that can’t go wrong with a fixed power scope and it can handle 12 gauge slug recoil.

4x is pretty good for a muzzleloader.

I have a Bushnell 1.5-4x shotgun scope on mine, works great.

 

[mac1911]

FIRST : DO NOT use "regular" powder.
Use black powder or aproved black powder substitutes.

Black powder is as fickle as any other.
I stay away from "real black powder" and use the substitutes. Both pellet and loose forms. I currently like Blackhorn 209 powder.
Accuracy can be challenging as even the change in the way you load a round. If you "pack" the powder down at different pressure it will change the outcome.

With black powder : each round you load and fire can get progressively harder to seat from the fouling wich can lead to poorly seated charges. This is why its important to mark your ram rod with you current load of powder and projectile to make sur e your seating them into the bottom of the breach.

CLeaning. All BP guns foul badly and that residue loves to suck up moisture. If you never cleaned BP even the substitutes stink like a bad egg sandwich.
As for cleaning warm dish soapy water is fine. My dad cleaned the BP after coming home on the last day of BP season right in the shower. Stunk up the house for a few days.

Accuracy is also dependant on the projectile.
Some of my better accuracy comes from the Wads/sabot that hold a sub cal projectile. For me thants hornady "black" 50 cal sabot that holds a 45 cal bullet. I use cast 230grwin 45 cal bullets.
few years ago I switched to the Lee R.E.A.L. Bullet. I can go about 10 shots before loading gets "harder" its one of the design features of the REAL bullet.
Im getting 3moa consistently with the factory sights.
i have used a red dot before on it but I find it just gets in the way.

 

[PilotRPI]

I use blackhorn 209 about 90gr by volume. I can go about 10-12 rounds at the range and then need to clean. It is very accurate.

Dont use a rock. Get a starter handle.

I use speed loaders. They also make little rubber holders for primers. I dont bring the wrench with me when hunting. Be sure and use breech plug grease when you clean the rifle, just a little is fine.

Yes, it is pricey to shoot per round, but my rate of fire is slower on a dollar basis than other modern guns I shoot.

I would think most good scopes can handle a BP gun. The powder burn should be relatively slow compared to modern guns I think.

If you ever want to shoot at Southborough I can show you my setup with my Omega.

 

[md2020]

The ignition system isn’t as fast as a regular centerfire rifle time wise so you need to stay steady for couple of seconds AFTER you squeeze the trigger. There is a slight lag.

If your eyes are still good there is nothing wrong with iron sights IMHO. Learn to use them and if you don’t do well with them then go to low powered scope.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

The ignition system isn’t as fast as a regular centerfire rifle time wise so you need to stay steady for couple of seconds AFTER you squeeze the trigger. There is a slight lag.

If your eyes are still good there is nothing wrong with iron sights IMHO. Learn to use them and if you don’t do well with them then go to low powered scope.

Agreed. Follow through is important with any muzzleloader.

As a general rule I always set up the iron sights before I mount a scope. If something goes wrong with the scope I am not out of the hunt. I can just pull the scope and continue. It’s not and issue for hunting at home but if your on a trip somewhere it could be a hunt saver.

Bob

 

[whacko]

All the responses nailed it so far.

I'll add......when I'm at the range I run a dry patch using a jag down the bore between shots. As the fouling builds up it makes it tougher and tougher to load the next sabot. It also effects accuracy....when your hunting your shooting through a clean bore.......so firing through a clean bore when zeroing will help. Consistency is key with getting the most accuracy from a muzzleloader. Same bullet weight....same amount and type of powder....same sabot......same primer......clean bore each shot.


I get three rounds touching at 50 yards and a 2 inch group at 100 yards from my tc impact amd my tc Omega. They are accurate as hell once you find the charge and projectile that works best. Killed more deer in mass with my mozzle loaders than with my shotguns.

If you try a few types of projos and powders and charges and your having trouble it may be a problem but generally you'll be able to find something that works very well. For a tc Omega I'd recommend a 250 grain hornady in the mag express sabot and 2 pellets of 777 (100 grains). That's how I get 3 rounds in a ragged hole accuracy from my Omega. If you need to start adjusting charges......777 comes in pellets that are less than 50 grains each and you can load 90 grains with a 50 and a 40.....or 80 grains with two 40 grain pellets etc.........or you could go to loose powder and a measure.

When I'm in the woods I carry spare loads with the plastic tubes. As far as primers.....I keep them in a plastic ziplock in my vest. You should NEVER carry primers in the same tube with your powder.......it's just not intrinsically safe. Same with range trips....keep your primers in a separate container away from powder. Also.....when your shooting from the bench at the range......close your box of pellets or tub of powder and keep it away from the rifle. I saw a YouTube vid where a guy left his container of powder open in the bench and when he fired and a spark hit the container caught fire. Just a safety tip.

 

[whacko]

Agreed. Follow through is important with any muzzleloader.

As a general rule I always set up the iron sights before I mount a scope. If something goes wrong with the scope I am not out of the hunt. I can just pull the scope and continue. It’s not and issue for hunting at home but if your on a trip somewhere it could be a hunt saver.

Bob

On long trips I bring a spare gun! Saved my ass once up in maine when my buddies safety spring let go.....back to he truck and loaned him my spare.

 

[Coyote33]

All great advice!

Hey, this has a fiber optic front sight which was broken. The guy at Kittery Trading Post hooked me up with something he had from a bow, but it is not quite the right size. It is a little loose in the ends, but the end of the fiber is melted/peened over so it stays in. I think it would be nice to have the right one in there. How do I find the right diameter I need?

 

[HorizontalHunter]

All great advice!

Hey, this has a fiber optic front sight which was broken. The guy at Kittery Trading Post hooked me up with something he had from a bow, but it is not quite the right size. It is a little loose in the ends, but the end of the fiber is melted/peened over so it stays in. I think it would be nice to have the right one in there. How do I find the right diameter I need?

Call TC. They will likely send you a replacement.

Bob

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I get three rounds touching at 50 yards and a 2 inch group at 100 yards from my tc impact amd my tc Omega. They are accurate as hell once you find the charge and projectile that works best. Killed more deer in mass with my mozzle loaders than with my shotguns.

If you try a few types of projos and powders and charges and your having trouble it may be a problem but generally you'll be able to find something that works very well. For a tc Omega I'd recommend a 250 grain hornady in the mag express sabot and 2 pellets of 777 (100 grains). That's how I get 3 rounds in a ragged hole accuracy from my Omega. If you need to start adjusting charges......777 comes in pellets that are less than 50 grains each and you can load 90 grains with a 50 and a 40.....or 80 grains with two 40 grain pellets etc.........or you could go to loose powder and a measure.

I was back at the range with my Impact last week to get ready for this coming season. I had bought some 60g pellets to play around with the loading for my rifle to see if there was something more accurate than the 150g load I have been shooting. Nope.

I shot 3 round groups of 100g, 110g, 120g, and 150g. 150g is still the most accurate. By far.

Bob

 

[whacko]

I was back at the range with my Impact last week to get ready for this coming season. I had bought some 60g pellets to play around with the loading for my rifle to see if there was something more accurate than the 150g load I have been shooting. Nope.

I shot 3 round groups of 100g, 110g, 120g, and 150g. 150g is still the most accurate. By far.

Bob

Dang my impact went all crazy big groups with 150 grains.

 

[DJBrad]

Great info in this thread. Rather than ask the same questions I am able to now be confident of my near future purchase of a Cva Optima with the loads aforementioned. Need the range time of course before the primitive season starts up but I want the most out of this December....a December to remember.

 

[Coyote33]

Well, I sighted it in a couple weekends ago. Was dead on left to right. Was about 10-12 inches high though. I moved the target back to maybe 50 yards, and it was even higher. Is this because of the "rainbow effect"? I'm guessing it might be dead on at 75-100 yards.

Call TC. They will likely send you a replacement.

I didn't call, but got in touch through their website. They are sending me a FREE replacement! Good deal!

Oh, I had a "fanny pack" belt bag thing to put stuff in. Held everything just about perfect; full boxes of stuff, not even divied up into smaller batches in pill bottles. Then I tried to put it on, and I need an extender! It looks like this was a kid's pack. I think I have another "fanny pack" around somewhere, or will just pick one up for a quarter at a yard sale.

 

[rocket500]

Try Blackhorn 209 and you likely will ditch the other black powder substitutes. I think it’s miles better. Doesn’t foul nearly as much, you can shoot all day without having to patch the barrel.

Only thing you need to know is clean with regular bore cleaner (i.e. Hoppes) and not soap & water like BP or substitutes.

It doesn’t come in pellet form but loose powder really isn’t hard to use.

 

[pupchow]

Well, I sighted it in a couple weekends ago. Was dead on left to right. Was about 10-12 inches high though. I moved the target back to maybe 50 yards, and it was even higher. Is this because of the "rainbow effect"? I'm guessing it might be dead on at 75-100 yards.



I didn't call, but got in touch through their website. They are sending me a FREE replacement! Good deal!

Oh, I had a "fanny pack" belt bag thing to put stuff in. Held everything just about perfect; full boxes of stuff, not even divied up into smaller batches in pill bottles. Then I tried to put it on, and I need an extender! It looks like this was a kid's pack. I think I have another "fanny pack" around somewhere, or will just pick one up for a quarter at a yard sale.

Front sight on my TC Omega is too low. Known issue on earlier models, I've read. Contacted S&W. They expected me to purchase a replacement sight. I put a scope on it.

 

[Coyote33]

The replacement I was talking about was for the broken fiber in my front sight. I've yet to try it at longer distances, or to make any attempts at sight adjustments. Even if it IS off, I could put a TRS red-dot on there and use that. Might not be a bad thing in low light of the woods and swamps.

 

[steve8140]

You can upgrade the push rod to one with a folding “T handle” at the end. It fits in the same spot and will save your hand.

 

[Coyote33]

You can upgrade the push rod to one with a folding “T handle” at the end. It fits in the same spot and will save your hand.

Just as easy to use a stick or rock to spread the load a little.

 

[mac1911]

The replacement I was talking about was for the broken fiber in my front sight. I've yet to try it at longer distances, or to make any attempts at sight adjustments. Even if it IS off, I could put a TRS red-dot on there and use that. Might not be a bad thing in low light of the woods and swamps.

There is a good amount of elevation adjustment on the rear sight.
You can also get one of these. Increases your sight radius by a good amount and a rear aperture sight is almost like a red dot sight. Your eye/brain likes to center stuff all on its own. Look through the rear peep the front sight will almost center it self put the front sight on your target and snap off a round.
PeepRib Peep Sight for TC Encore and Omega

 

[mac1911]

Well, I sighted it in a couple weekends ago. Was dead on left to right. Was about 10-12 inches high though. I moved the target back to maybe 50 yards, and it was even higher. Is this because of the "rainbow effect"? I'm guessing it might be dead on at 75-100 yards.



I didn't call, but got in touch through their website. They are sending me a FREE replacement! Good deal!

Oh, I had a "fanny pack" belt bag thing to put stuff in. Held everything just about perfect; full boxes of stuff, not even divied up into smaller batches in pill bottles. Then I tried to put it on, and I need an extender! It looks like this was a kid's pack. I think I have another "fanny pack" around somewhere, or will just pick one up for a quarter at a yard sale.

what did you use for a load?

Depending on end use and load will effect your zero.
Example my T/C omega is zeroed to impact about 3" high from point of aim at 100 yards with a 230 grain 45cal bullet in a 50 cal sabot pushed to 1900fps.
This gives me a Point Black Range of broadside of vital zone out to about 200 yards...i would hold a touch high at that point.
You can learn to use your front sight as a range finder also.

If your just punching paper zero for the distance you will shoot at the most or call Williams and order one of these with the target knob opption
WILLIAMS FP-T/C ENCORE/OMEGA | FP Series Receiver Sights by Williams
Im tempted to put aperture sights and front globe on my omega?

 

[Coyote33]

Holy crap. That peep rib thing is $60, and the Williams is $90! They must be making 55 and 85 bucks profit on those, respectively.

For that money, I'd just use a red dot or scope, though that peep rib thing does look fairly compact. I think I'll just get the proper front fiber and try it at the intended distance and see what she does.

I see there is also a
Williams WGRS Peep Sight
on that same sight where the peep rib is, for $34.

I kind of like the fiber front and rear. How would an aperture rear sight compare in low light to the fiber rear?

 

[DJBrad]

Got a CVA Optima V2 coming my way very soon. Picked one up from GB with lots of accessories and boolits. Pumped for this muzzleloader!

 

[mac1911]

Holy crap. That peep rib thing is $60, and the Williams is $90! They must be making 55 and 85 bucks profit on those, respectively.

For that money, I'd just use a red dot or scope, though that peep rib thing does look fairly compact. I think I'll just get the proper front fiber and try it at the intended distance and see what she does.

I see there is also a
Williams WGRS Peep Sight
on that same sight where the peep rib is, for $34.

I kind of like the fiber front and rear. How would an aperture rear sight compare in low light to the fiber rear?

That would depend on your eye sight.
"Hunting" apertures are pretty big and your just looking through the hole vs trying to see and line up notch sights with the fiber optics. Rear notch sights are just a blur for me.
as far as the profit margin? i like target rear sights like the williams and lyman , great for different loads and zeros and eady to adjust. I do wish they where less expensive.

 

[mac1911]

That would depend on your eye sight.
"Hunting" apertures are pretty big and your just looking through the hole vs trying to see and line up notch sights with the fiber optics. Rear notch sights are just a blur for me even with fiber optics

 

[ThePreBanMan]

I think my TC Triumph kicks harder than my 12 gauge w/ 3" mag sabot slugs. That's with 100 grains of blackhorn 209 and a 250 grain TEZ sabot.

I don't enjoy that gun. But it kills deer.

The ram rod the rifles come with suck. Get a range rod to save your hand. Get a starter as recommended by others as well.

I clean after every other shot. I have Leupold glass on mine. It does well enough for any hunting distance around here. It's probably 2 MOA.

 

[DJBrad]

Seems like Thompson Centers are very popular with you all. Is there a reason for this? In any case I got mine with a Konus scope and that scope will go on my ruger 10/22 because the RDS is nice but not accurate for a headshot off hand at 50+ yards. A Leupold will be purchased for the CVA.