Swiss Shooting

[Hiltonizer]

I wonder how much vigor the media will go after this here... story still developing it seems.

A gunman has opened fire in a village in Switzerland, killing three people and wounding two others, Swiss media reports say.

The gunman was reportedly armed with an assault rifle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18773158#TWEET494554

 

[stacarter]

Am I wrong or is every single person in Switzerland armed by the government like we give out EBT cards?

 

[Hiltonizer]

Am I wrong or is every single person in Switzerland armed by the government like we give out EBT cards?

conscription and you have a rifle in your name, something to that effect... not nearly as glamorous as most idiots on our side make it sound... the problem is idiots on our side bring it up constantly so this might get pushed back on.

Reality is there's usually an armory involved with these conscription rifles, ammo separate from you, government ranges only, etc.

 

[Garys]

Yes, you are wrong. All males in a certain age range are required to enlist in the Swiss Army. Once they are trained, they are issued a real assault rifle, a SG 550. They carry those when on duty and store them at home when not. When they have completed their military service, ex servicemen can keep their issued weapons, but they have to be converted to semi auto fire only.

Gun ownership is high in Switzerland, but apparently concealed carry such as is common in the US is not.

Am I wrong or is every single person in Switzerland armed by the government like we give out EBT cards?

 

[Hiltonizer]

Yes, you are wrong. All males in a certain age range are required to enlist in the Swiss Army. Once they are trained, they are issued a real assault rifle, a SG 550. They carry those when on duty and store them at home when not. When they have completed their military service, ex servicemen can keep their issued weapons, but they have to be converted to semi auto fire only.

Gun ownership is high in Switzerland, but apparently concealed carry such as is common in the US is not.

per wikipedia:

Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, military police, medical and postal personnel) at home. Up until October 2007, a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm) was issued as well, which was sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use had taken place.[4] The ammunition was intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.

 

[Garys]

And? Note from the same article that hunters are not required to have a permit. So, a person could have any number of long guns for hunting at home. The Swiss also host frequent competitions. There are a number of British shooters that travel to and store their weapons in Switzerland because their laws are more reasonable than the British ones. Switzerland has a rate of gun ownership not far behind the US and ahead of most other nations.

It also has a rate of gun crime so low that they don't compile statistics.

per wikipedia:

Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, military police, medical and postal personnel) at home. Up until October 2007, a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm) was issued as well, which was sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use had taken place.[4] The ammunition was intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.

 

[Hiltonizer]

And? Note from the same article that hunters are not required to have a permit. So, a person could have any number of long guns for hunting at home. The Swiss also host frequent competitions. There are a number of British shooters that travel to and store their weapons in Switzerland because their laws are more reasonable than the British ones. Switzerland has a rate of gun ownership not far behind the US and ahead of most other nations.

It also has a rate of gun crime so low that they don't compile statistics.

No doubt, but I'm saying if you want to compare to Switzerland to the US in terms of gun ownership... you'll get smacked down on the facts that their training is substantially higher where its mandatory .mil (and consequent knowledge about you) and they're subject to routine inspections. Don't want that do you? It's a shit analogy.

 

[tacticalpanda]

I like how they didn't name the shooter. I wish our media would do this. Give them no credit or any fame. Just call them "Douche bag #" and when they post a picture of them post of picture of a giant steaming pile of dog poo.

 

[Garys]

I agree.

I like how they didn't name the shooter. I wish our media would do this. Give them no credit or any fame. Just call them "Douche bag #" and when they post a picture of them post of picture of a giant steaming pile of dog poo.

- - - Updated - - -

No doubt, but I'm saying if you want to compare to Switzerland to the US in terms of gun ownership... you'll get smacked down on the facts that their training is substantially higher where its mandatory .mil (and consequent knowledge about you) and they're subject to routine inspections. Don't want that do you? It's a shit analogy.

I wasn't making that comparison at all. I was simply stating that the government doesn't hand out guns, they are issued to military personnel. Who then get to keep them when they have finished their service. I don't know if non military personnel are subject to inspection of their weapons, or if military personnel are subject to inspections of their non issued firearms. If you do, please give the details.

 

[noxin]

This is a very indepth article detailing the Swiss gun situation, and doing, what I consider, a decent comparison of the two countries.

"Cultural conditions, not gun laws, are the most important factors in a nation's crime rate. Young adults in Washington, D.C., are subject to strict gun control, but no social control, and they commit a staggering amount of armed crime. Young adults in Zurich are subject to minimal gun control, but strict social control, and they commit almost no crime."

http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

 

[JuergenG]

The gunman was reportedly armed with an assault rifle.

Well, this story won't last longer than today as the perp was banned from owning firearms since 2005
for psychiatric issues, was under custodianship since and had his guns taken off him.
By now the "anti" press keeps on reporting "assault rifle" and plants polls re stricter gun laws, whereas
the Tagesspiegel, which is not really known for being in the pro gun camp, reports the reality as above
and that the guns used were a shotgun and "old army carbine" (likely a K31).
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panoram...hiatrischer-Behandlung-gewesen/story/18999979

 

[Garys]

I think that this just proves that if someone has enough motivation, they'll figure out a way to get a weapon. From the article I read, he was pretty much the equivalent of a "Prohibited Person" here in the US. He was involuntarily committed for mental illness. All the things that should be done were done and yet he still found a weapon and killed people. Oh, the alcohol didn't help either.

Well, this story won't last longer than today as the perp was banned from owning firearms since 2005
for psychiatric issues, was under custodianship since and had his guns taken off him.
By now the "anti" press keeps on reporting "assault rifle" and plants polls re stricter gun laws, whereas
the Tagesspiegel, which is not really known for being in the pro gun camp, reports the reality as above
and that the guns used were a shotgun and "old army carbine" (likely a K31).
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panoram...hiatrischer-Behandlung-gewesen/story/18999979

 

[JuergenG]

Oh, the alcohol didn't help either.

By now it turned out that his involuntary committment was drug related.

 

[Pete85]

No doubt, but I'm saying if you want to compare to Switzerland to the US in terms of gun ownership... you'll get smacked down on the facts that their training is substantially higher where its mandatory .mil (and consequent knowledge about you) and they're subject to routine inspections. Don't want that do you? It's a shit analogy.

Right, but the fact still remains that access to firearms in Switzerland is very easy (mandatory in most cases), yet they still have a much lower instance of these massacres. If access to guns was the primary cause of this violence (as the antis always say), wouldn't they have a much higher rate?

What are some of the other factors that lead them to have a lower rate (mental health access, poverty levels, personal responsibility, armed security, etc)?

 

[Hiltonizer]

Right, but the fact still remains that access to firearms in Switzerland is very easy (mandatory in most cases), yet they still have a much lower instance of these massacres. If access to guns was the primary cause of this violence (as the antis always say), wouldn't they have a much higher rate?

What are some of the other factors that lead them to have a lower rate (mental health access, poverty levels, personal responsibility, armed security, etc)?

That's the rub... antis don't always say that... more often they bitch about who can access things (trained .mil in this case), registration (government issue and inspection) and necessity (standing militia). That's why Switz is a bad argument, it feeds in directly to most of their arguments.

The culture as a whole is the real difference... and there's really only a few hot spots distorting our stats. Wipe Chicago off the map and we likely have statistically much more similar crime rates wrt gun violence.

 

[MisterHappy]

It's not all rainbows and puppies, over there in Switzerland.

Their "NRA" is ProTell

http://www.protell.ch/

A couple of years back, there was a referendum on increasing gun control, and I sent a blind email to them, wishing them luck. The correspondant is actually an NRA member.....so he has somewhere to get away to, when it goes Full R-word over there!

It's a different culture, and it's dangerous to map one society's practice onto another one.....