Suspect's pistol worth more than the loot . . .

[6hold]

This rare 1940 Colt Woodsman target pistol was used in about 18 armed robberies since August in Orlando and Orange County. (ORLANDO POLICE DEPARTMENT / November 1, 2007)​

Henry Pierson Curtis | Sentinel Staff Writer
November 2, 2007

A rare handgun used in more than a dozen holdups across Orange County turns out to be worth more than all the money the suspect wielding it took from his victims, according to Orlando police.

Confiscated late Wednesday, the 1940 Colt Woodsman Match Target Bullseye pistol was recognized by Detective Matt Deem as the same weapon seen in a series of surveillance videos of convenience-store robberies since August.

"In all the robberies this kid did, you'd probably have to multiply by three just to get to the value of the gun," Deem said, noting that the .22-caliber Colt is worth about $1,800. "I'd love to have it and know where it's been since January 1940. . . . It might have won Camp Perry, for all we know."

Camp Perry, Ohio, is where the NRA National Outdoor Rifle & Pistol Championships take place.

The suspect, Webster Cooper, didn't have a clue what he was carrying, according to police.

The 19-year-old Orlando resident told detectives he bought the gun on the street.

"It had a long barrel, so it looked scary," Deem said. "The kid started crying and gave up everything."

Cooper is charged with robbing a Silver Star Road 7-Eleven store on Oct. 5, Oct. 25 and Oct. 28, arrest records show. He is the lone suspect in at least 15 more armed robberies since early August, police said.


Suspect convicted this year

State prison records show Cooper is serving three years of probation as the result of being convicted earlier this year for carrying a concealed firearm. He is also a registered drug offender.

Videos of the holdups show the same man dressed in black with his head wrapped in a blue T-shirt. In each case, the robber holds a long-barrel pistol that Deem first thought was a Ruger Mark II, a much more common .22-caliber target pistol.

After interviewing Cooper, Deem said he thinks the teen wrapped his head to try to disguise what he described as "big Dumbo ears."


Clerk described gun

A store clerk in one of the holdups gave police the first clue that the serial robber might be armed with an unusual weapon.

The clerk described and drew a picture of what he remembered was a pistol with a flat-sided barrel.

Colt, Ruger, Browning and High Standard all made .22-caliber target pistols, but these are not as common in crimes as 9 mm pistols and .38-caliber revolvers, police reports show.

Valuable guns turn up at crime scenes, but not often.

"I've recovered some Browning Sweet 16's with cut-off barrels and stocks, and it made me want to cry," Deem said about Browning 16-gauge shotguns worth at least $2,000 apiece in unaltered condition.

Police had not been able to determine by Thursday whether the Colt Woodsman had been stolen. Someone removed the original pistol grips, which reduces its value.


Pistol may be destroyed

Recovered stolen guns are destroyed if the legal owner cannot be located. Anyone who recognizes the pistol is asked to call Crimeline at 407-423-8477.

More than half of all guns stolen in Florida and across the U.S. are never reported as stolen because gun owners don't record the serial numbers, according to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and Orlando Sentinel research.

In 2001, Florida ranked fifth nationally with 7,434 stolen guns reported to the National Crime Information Center, which collects statistics on thefts of firearms with known serial numbers.

Henry Pierson Curtis can be reached at [email protected]

 

[Coyote33]

...
Suspect convicted this year

State prison records show Cooper is serving three years of probation as the result of being convicted earlier this year for carrying a concealed firearm. He is also a registered drug offender.
...

[sad2]Fat lot of good that did. This time they'll REALLY convict him!

More than half of all guns stolen in Florida and across the U.S. are never reported as stolen because gun owners don't record the serial numbers, according to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and Orlando Sentinel research....

I thought they get recorded "for you" when you buy it. Or is that just in MA? Isn't that a federal thing?

 

[Jose]

I thought they get recorded "for you" when you buy it. Or is that just in MA? Isn't that a federal thing?

That is not a Federal thing. It is actually illegal for the federal government to maintain a gun registry. All they can do is go through the ATF Form 4473s kept at the dealers who have sold the firearm at retail.

Your registration is a state thing. Most states register nothing. I've lived in California, Washington, Florida, Kansas, and Ohio since leaving college. Only California keeps a gun registration database, and none of those states have any FID or LTC requirements just for you to own firearms. You either get your gun from a dealer who does the NICS (or a state version of it) or just find someone with the gun you like and do a cash and carry (except California).

 

[dreppucci007]

Amazing

 

[drgrant]

That is not a Federal thing. It is actually illegal for the federal government to maintain a gun registry. All they can do is go through the ATF Form 4473s kept at the dealers who have sold the firearm at retail.

Yeah, or if you buy more than one handgun at a time, the ATF
gets a nice MHP form in the mail from the dealer. Not sure
what the "legal" retention time is on that but how much you want
to bet that, if the ATF stored all the MHP records and someone
found out about it, that nobody would ever be prosecuted....

Also, if a dealer shuts down before the (20? or 30?) year records
retention interval expires, the ATF will get ALL their 4473s where
it gets stored in some big filing center. So if your dealer goes
out of business, all your gun info is now in the hands of the
ATF.

In the grand scheme of things fed 4473s are not that
big of a deal to me, considering that from a confiscation
standpoint you're talking about a shitload of guns. I think
it's still important to know, however, that records ARE kept and
can become available to the feds under a variety of circumstances.

The only way to get a gun completely devoid of any "records" is
to buy one in a free state FTF exchange where the seller decides
not to remember you....

-Mike

 

[MichaelJ]

Why not lower the taxes and make the municipality some extra $ by auctioning off the firearms? Seems like such a waste to just trash them...especially the collector pieces. I do understand that they have the "Must get all guns off street...." mentality which is sad in its own right.

 

[Jose]

This goes to show that the majority of criminals are dumber than a fence post.

Florida being one of the states with the highest CCW rate, this dumbass is lucky he didn't get ventilated for his troubles.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

From Memory the record keeping requirement for the multiple handgun sales form is at least 5 if not 10 years.

I was cruising on the BATF website and saw it

Here is what looks like part of it from what was called the red book when I was a FFL/SOT back some years ago now.

http://books.google.com/books?id=9e...ts=B-RrcUM5lT&sig=RLLcX4cljqb0QFqp-QOhMxbKDGU


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/transcripts/ltthree.htm

Yeah, or if you buy more than one handgun at a time, the ATF
gets a nice MHP form in the mail from the dealer. Not sure
what the "legal" retention time is on that but how much you want
to bet that, if the ATF stored all the MHP records and someone
found out about it, that nobody would ever be prosecuted....

Also, if a dealer shuts down before the (20? or 30?) year records
retention interval expires, the ATF will get ALL their 4473s where
it gets stored in some big filing center. So if your dealer goes
out of business, all your gun info is now in the hands of the
ATF.

In the grand scheme of things fed 4473s are not that
big of a deal to me, considering that from a confiscation
standpoint you're talking about a shitload of guns. I think
it's still important to know, however, that records ARE kept and
can become available to the feds under a variety of circumstances.

The only way to get a gun completely devoid of any "records" is
to buy one in a free state FTF exchange where the seller decides
not to remember you....

-Mike

 

[SKS Ray]

Recovered stolen guns are destroyed if the legal owner cannot be located. Anyone who recognizes the pistol is asked to call Crimeline at 407-423-8477.

I recognize it, its a Colt Woodsman just like the report said, maybe if I call they'll let me have it.

 

[Coyote33]

So you mean I was right that I did fill out federal paperwork way back when? I thought so. I was under the impression that everybody fills these out, no matter the state, though I was also aware that MA had additional forms.

 

[Jose]

I was under the impression that everybody fills these out, no matter the state.

True only if you buy from a licensed dealer. In most states, you can legally buy a gun from a private (non-FFL) person without involving any government officials, at any level, in the transaction.

 

[KMaurer]

So you mean I was right that I did fill out federal paperwork way back when? I thought so. I was under the impression that everybody fills these out, no matter the state, though I was also aware that MA had additional forms.

Everybody does the federal paperwork when they purchase from an FFL, regardless of the state, but there's no central database of that information. As long as the dealer remains in business the only copy of the information is supposed to be the hardcopy you filled out and the corresponding entry in his bound book. Transfers between unlicensed individuals create absolutely no paper trail in most states. In addition, most states that currently record transfers (e.g., MA, CA) don't have records for transfers that took place before they started recording the transfers (or in the case of MA, since they started doing it at least semi-competently).

If you lose a gun or have one stolen and don't have a record of the serial number, you should be able to get the information from the dealer from whom you purchased it, if you purchased it from a dealer, and he's still in business and you know approximately when you purchased it. Otherwise, you're probably SOL.

Ken

 

[Coyote33]

Everybody does the federal paperwork when they purchase from an FFL, regardless of the state, but there's no central database of that information. ...

Ken

Interesting. I thought they kept track of all this for tracking purposes.