Survival misinformation: Is NES just better informed?

[P-14]

The stuff you buy always weighs too much! The online vendors always tell you about how great the item is for the EOTW, but fail to tell you it weighs 50 lbs! I'm old. I watch every ounce of weight that I may have to lug to the car let alone put on my back.

I'm not perfect at this, but I see individuals on survival websites say that they're going to carry 25 MREs, a tent that sleeps 8, and 25 lbs of gizmos to light a fire that uses only air and spit. And then, they'll carry 10 lbs of first aid gear and the 5-lbs. of manual that goes along with it. Next, they'll strap on 40 lbs of armor, carry a 12-lb tricked out AR, 30 mags, and 1K rounds of ammo. This drives me crazy. They need to get a life and get real. [rant over]

Simple and lighter is always better. Ultralight hiking gear is where I focus. NES does do it better.

 

[Bonesinium]

I conciser myself a prepper. I watch Red Dawn on a weekly basis. I've even watched the new Red Dawn, so I know I'm prepared.

 

[fubar]

Guns, gold, silver, ammunition and alcohol top the list, and knowing how to use the gun proficiently and ruthlessly to get the other things you need to survive. It's Darwinism plain and simple. Gold and liquor to barter, but if I have a mall ninja neighbor who has all the survival crap and lacks the will to do what is necessary to keep it, guess what? His stuff is mine, one way or the other.

This isn't keyboard commando talk either. I'm old and I got this way because I have survived the last half of the 20th Century and the first decade plus of the 21st. Along the way I've learned one or two things. Old men are treacherous and ruthless and perhaps driven to extreme behavior if pushed. Weaker than the young physically but as the saying goes: "no matter what your strength or size, Col Colt will equalize"

Just curious how many people you've murdered so far ... For stuff you want ?

 

[mark056]

I haven't used the word murder, and if you honestly think I would answer your question, probably asked with some degree of skepticism and perhaps a feeble attempt to "out me" as some kind of keyboard commando, I would not answer that question either seriously or in jest.

Unlike so many who try to be Internet badasses, I know precisely what I am about and to a large degree who I am. I'm not trying to be a badass either. Let us simply say that as one ages, one has less to lose and under certain circumstances might be less risk adverse. I hope you live long enough to experience that You are better than the question you asked.

 

[fubar]

Your post reminded me of an acquaintance with a history of violence. He is fond of jesting that if the SHTF he's just going to kill me and take my stuff. I've informed him my like minded friends may vigorously oppose that plan.

People who use murder as Plan A are lazy at best , murderous scum at worst. They are , in fact , the very reason why I train and notice these potential monsters who do not deserve to live.

Now , you , perhaps I misread your post. I hope so.

 

[lafataa]

Let us simply say that as one ages, one has less to lose and under certain circumstances might be less risk adverse.

I would assume that the more one ages, the more they have to lose considering they have spend their entire life gaining wealth, building relationships with people and perhaps even starting a family.

With that in mind, who wouldn't risk everything to ensure their family's survival?

 

[Admin]

So you'd murder your neighbor and his kids to steal his food if you had to?

 

[Archilochus]

Now , you , perhaps I misread your post. I hope so.

Nope, don't think you misread it. Looks like he's just trying to back off a bit from his earlier comments....

Guns, gold, silver, ammunition and alcohol top the list, and knowing how to use the gun proficiently and ruthlessly to get the other things you need to survive. It's Darwinism plain and simple. Gold and liquor to barter, but if I have a mall ninja neighbor who has all the survival crap and lacks the will to do what is necessary to keep it, guess what? His stuff is mine, one way or the other.

This isn't keyboard commando talk either. I'm old and I got this way because I have survived the last half of the 20th Century and the first decade plus of the 21st. Along the way I've learned one or two things. Old men are treacherous and ruthless and perhaps driven to extreme behavior if pushed. Weaker than the young physically but as the saying goes: "no matter what your strength or size, Col Colt will equalize"

 

[mark056]

So you'd murder your neighbor and his kids to steal his food if you had to?

Nope I'm not trying to back off and don't try to put words in my mouth. Now one of the terms that people use around here a lot is sheeple. Well if there are a lot of sheep, there are going to be wolves, always has been and always will be. It's natural for those of you who are parents to want to protect your young but who is to say my neighbor isn't going to try to kill me to get my stuff. See I see a post apocalyptic society as being totally lawless. Now I have never used the word murder. Some of you have and I'm not backing down when I say ruthless. Truth of the matter very few of you have ever killed anything maybe more than a bug. If you have something and I need it and you haven't the will or the means to keep it, I'll do my damnedest to take it. That's Darwinism, plain and simple and since there are so many sheep out there, why not be a wolf?

To the person who suggested that as one gets older they want to keep what they have. Well, I can only speak for me., but I know that I can't take what I have with me, so WTF? If the whole thing collapses what difference does it make.? In the world of today, I am law abiding and risk adverse, but in the world of tomorrow where there is no law, then it is a different story and it is everyone for themselves. Maybe one of you will end up killing me for what I have or to defend yourself. The door swings both ways my friends.

In a post apocalyptic world the weak will not survive, that will include the sick, the feeble and the elderly. For those of you who band together as hunter gatherers you are going to have to make ruthless decisions like who lives and who dies for the welfare of the group. For someone like myself I'll probably be some kind of outlier, past the breeding age, not as physically strong as the younger ones. In other words I have little to bring to group in the way of practical ] skill sets. People like me will either die off quickly, or become scavengers or predators. Me, I'd rather predate than scavenge. If I am not successful and I get killed or murdered, well we all die sometime and I've lived most of my life. I have a lot less to lose than many of you don't you see? It's all a matter of demographic perspective. YMMV If you look like food you will be eaten.

 

[Archilochus]

If you have something and I need it and you haven't the will or the means to keep it, I'll do my damnedest to take it. That's Darwinism, plain and simple and since there are so many sheep out there, why not be a wolf?

HOkaaay. So you don't use the specific word "murder". Yes, we see that. Still sounds a lot like murderin' and stealin' to me. But I'm not "old" yet, so what do I know? Still waiting for some pics.

BTW - "murder", "theft", (yeah, got it, not your words), and other crimes do not just disappear simply because there is "lawlessness". In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that those crimes will be more harshly dealt with in such a situation.

 

[fubar]

People in a world like you describe would be smart to band together , hunt down and hang predators.

 

[Rider]

I would assume that the more one ages, the more they have to lose considering they have spend their entire life gaining wealth, building relationships with people and perhaps even starting a family.

You have to put this in context. If I have a nice house, a fat 401k, and a bunch of guns and gold stashed in my basement and I'm 30, I'm going to want very badly to keep that and my family safe because I could have a long life ahead of me. If I'm in the same boat and I'm 60, and the SHTF, my life expectancy has already gone way down, and while I may not want to die, I realize that I am losing less of the only thing that matters than someone half my age. I can afford to take risks that someone else might not be able to.

Come the apocalypse, your virtual wealth is meaningless and your physical wealth only matters if you can keep it and be alive.

At least, that is how I interpret Mark's post.

 

[mark056]

People in a world like you describe would be smart to band together , hunt down and hang predators.

That would be the smart thing and no doubt it will happen but now that thinking can lead to some kind of romanticized fantasy. It's not going to be the Walking Dead. Many of you here also profess very individualistic ideas that might make you poor group members.

 

[fubar]

I have friends. We acknowledge that some day we may need to rely on each other.

And, Mark's post illustrates my logic. Now he may be the baddest lone wolf horse thief in the East , but while he's predating around my suburban wonderland , or my corner of Maine , he'll likely pass us up in search of easier targets.

The concept of rugged individual Prepper on a hill with his scoped rifle is not a plan I embrace. I want help. I want 24 hour LP/OP , I want people working for the future , whether its planting potatoes or gathering firewood , I want women around , ... Off the top of my head I can think of 20 people in the immediate rally when I count the teenagers and close relatives of our core group.

And that's before the non hackers and dead weight show up begging for help and not making jokes about Zombies anymore .

 

[mark056]

Folks,

I am going to leave you with one more thought. This is a true story and it happened to me, or rather I witnessed it. I appreciate the very good questions and intelligent responses to my post, and although we may disagree, the civility is in keeping with the very best of NES.

Back in 1956, my father, who had been stationed in California in WWII, decided that we were going to move west. My parents sold off all of theirr furniture, donated clothes to the Salvation Army and as an 8 year old with a three year old sister embarked on the Great Western Migration in a 1956 Plymouth Station Wagon with a homemade trailer attached. Remember that this was a trek from Eastern Ohio to the West Coast before the advent of the Interstate Highway System. Armed with a "Campground Guide" and a Hi Standard Sentinal .22 Revolver, my dad quit his job and had no real prospect of employment. My mother said later (who was never enthusiastic about the trip) said our merry little band reminded her of the Joads in "The Grapes of Wrath," My dad wasn't too worried about getting a job, he had learned the welding trade before the war, and he also had his teaching degree. In the 1950's anyone with a teaching certificate could get a job because of the Baby Boom and schools were overflowing. We camped out every night except maybe for two nights. Our trip lasted six weeks and covered six thousand miles, meandering here and there in the pre-Interstate West where amenities were sometimes hard to find.

We were in some very arid desert like country, I'm not sure what state now, maybe Utah. Anyway we ran low on water, and we were miles from any town. The trusty Plymouth was heating up, my sister was thirsty and started crying, and we were, in truth all pretty miserable. There was an old coot by the side of the road who was selling brown brackish what I call desert water for 50 cents a gallon. Now back then, 50 cents was a lot of money and there were plenty of people who had hourly wage jobs less than 50 cents an hour. The coot had set up his water business at the bottom of a large hill, and in all likelihood the Plymouth would overheat before it reached the top.

My Dad got out of the car and he was incredulous. He told the guy, I've got a wife two thirsty kids and an overheating car, you are committing robbery with your prices. The coot looked at him and said "I have and you need it, it's fifty cents a gallon." I'll never forget this. We were on a tight budget, but my Dad reluctantly paid the money for several gallons back when a dollar was really a dollar.

Now over the years, I have reflected, what if he didn't have the money?

Picture a time, when somebody has something you need but won't share it, or sell it or even barter for it. Derek, you have a family, your neighbor has a family and also a food supply, your family is starving, and the area is hunted out. What do you do? How far would you go to insure your family's survival? Now some people would say: "Oh that's different, because it is for the guy's family." But what about a guy like me who doesn't have a family (except for steps in NY and WV) and who in all probability likely won't have a spouse when and if ever the SHTF (I won't get into the details as to why except my wife is older than even me, and actuarial tables don't lie).

So there you have it: "I have it and you need it and I am not going to give it to you." So what do you do, and more importantly what do you folks who have families do? Your kids are starving and the neighbor's kids are thriving on surplus MRE's? Again, many of you will say that it's different because it is about your family, but not really, my life while totally expendable is important to me while I'm living it.

 

[bill o]

Folks,

I am going to leave you with one more thought. This is a true story and it happened to me, or rather I witnessed it. I appreciate the very good questions and intelligent responses to my post, and although we may disagree, the civility is in keeping with the very best of NES.

Back in 1956, my father, who had been stationed in California in WWII, decided that we were going to move west. My parents sold off all of theirr furniture, donated clothes to the Salvation Army and as an 8 year old with a three year old sister embarked on the Great Western Migration in a 1956 Plymouth Station Wagon with a homemade trailer attached. Remember that this was a trek from Eastern Ohio to the West Coast before the advent of the Interstate Highway System. Armed with a "Campground Guide" and a Hi Standard Sentinal .22 Revolver, my dad quit his job and had no real prospect of employment. My mother said later (who was never enthusiastic about the trip) said our merry little band reminded her of the Joads in "The Grapes of Wrath," My dad wasn't too worried about getting a job, he had learned the welding trade before the war, and he also had his teaching degree. In the 1950's anyone with a teaching certificate could get a job because of the Baby Boom and schools were overflowing. We camped out every night except maybe for two nights. Our trip lasted six weeks and covered six thousand miles, meandering here and there in the pre-Interstate West where amenities were sometimes hard to find.

We were in some very arid desert like country, I'm not sure what state now, maybe Utah. Anyway we ran low on water, and we were miles from any town. The trusty Plymouth was heating up, my sister was thirsty and started crying, and we were, in truth all pretty miserable. There was an old coot by the side of the road who was selling brown brackish what I call desert water for 50 cents a gallon. Now back then, 50 cents was a lot of money and there were plenty of people who had hourly wage jobs less than 50 cents an hour. The coot had set up his water business at the bottom of a large hill, and in all likelihood the Plymouth would overheat before it reached the top.

My Dad got out of the car and he was incredulous. He told the guy, I've got a wife two thirsty kids and an overheating car, you are committing robbery with your prices. The coot looked at him and said "I have and you need it, it's fifty cents a gallon." I'll never forget this. We were on a tight budget, but my Dad reluctantly paid the money for several gallons back when a dollar was really a dollar.

Now over the years, I have reflected, what if he didn't have the money?

Picture a time, when somebody has something you need but won't share it, or sell it or even barter for it. Derek, you have a family, your neighbor has a family and also a food supply, your family is starving, and the area is hunted out. What do you do? How far would you go to insure your family's survival? Now some people would say: "Oh that's different, because it is for the guy's family." But what about a guy like me who doesn't have a family (except for steps in NY and WV) and who in all probability likely won't have a spouse when and if ever the SHTF (I won't get into the details as to why except my wife is older than even me, and actuarial tables don't lie).

So there you have it: "I have it and you need it and I am not going to give it to you." So what do you do, and more importantly what do you folks who have families do? Your kids are starving and the neighbor's kids are thriving on surplus MRE's? Again, many of you will say that it's different because it is about your family, but not really, my life while totally expendable is important to me while I'm living it.

This story is hilarious if you read it in Andy Rooney's voice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rider]

I think the disconnect here is that Mark is saying he will do whatever he has to in order to survive, and a lot of folks seem to think they won't need to resort to desperate measures. Much like in action movies, prepper fiction places you in the role of the connected protagonist who has prepper friends, sources of supply, and all the people you 'have to deal with' are explicitly bad, and lucky for you, they did the pre dating so you are just Robin Hood, aren't you?

If things get really bad, the veil of civilization is swept aside, and people will do pretty horrible things to survive. Not a day goes by that I don't think about the fact that the President of this country vilifies me at the same time that he takes 1/3 of my income to pay for his army of deadbeats. If I refuse to pay, I go to jail and they take everything I have. Mark's scenario is real right now, and we all choose to believe otherwise and pay the ransom.

 

[fubar]

I have come to believe that people aren't paying attention. Watching YouTube videos and reality TV and buying a bag full of crap isn't a plan.

I seriously doubt there is a person on this board that couldn't have six weeks worth of rice and beans , a hundred candles and 200 bullets in their closet , with not much hardship to get there.

I believe the standard for Mormans is 3 months worth of food and zero debt , followed by 12 months of food and money in the bank. I'd be curious to know how many people have 5 thousand dollars worth of guns and less than a days worth of food at home.

I am likely one of the more anti social people on this planet. I basically think most people are not worth knowing. And even I have a few friends. I suggest talking to yours about a Zombie Plan. Any version of Bad Things Happening I can think of would be better dealt with if one had a few bodies to share the work load.

 

[P-14]

If things get really bad, the veil of civilization is swept aside, and people will do pretty horrible things to survive. Not a day goes by that I don't think about the fact that the President of this country vilifies me at the same time that he takes 1/3 of my income to pay for his army of deadbeats. If I refuse to pay, I go to jail and they take everything I have. Mark's scenario is real right now, and we all choose to believe otherwise and pay the ransom.

It did in Bosnia in the 90s. See here and read "One Year in Hell."

Quotes from the article:

There were also many normal men, like you and me, fathers and grandfathers, who killed and robbed. There were no ―good and ―bad men. Most were in the middle and ready for the worst.
.....
Men become monsters. You never knew who [were] the enemy at any given point.

 

[Archilochus]

I think the disconnect here is that Mark is saying he will do whatever he has to in order to survive, and a lot of folks seem to think they won't need to resort to desperate measures.

If things get really bad, the veil of civilization is swept aside, and people will do pretty horrible things to survive.

Can't disagree that formerly decent people MAY be forced into desperate measures. No way to predict how you'll behave in that situation.

My problem with comments made by "Mark" and others of his ilk is that he is PLANNING to act that way, by choice, now, while he's sitting here warm, dry & well-fed.
If he's a "decent" person, and actually believes a time may come when he needs to off his neighbors & steal their stuff, he should consider doing whatever it takes NOW to (hopefully) avoid being forced into those actions.

 

[josh2600]

Unlike so many who try to be Internet badasses, I know precisely what I am about and to a large degree who I am. I'm not trying to be a badass either.

but that's exactly what the ultimate internet badass would say.

 

[Admin]

Nope I'm not trying to back off and don't try to put words in my mouth.

I'm not putting words in to your mouth. I am reading between the lines that you clearly and plainly drew.

but if I have a mall ninja neighbor who has all the survival crap and lacks the will to do what is necessary to keep it, guess what? His stuff is mine, one way or the other.

That's pretty clear what your intentions are.

If you have to put innocent people down to sustain yourself and your family, well I guess that's survival. I'm just trying to wade through the masses to see who I need to look out for. Advanced recon will help me make decisive actions later.

 

[Supermoto]

My plan is to eat the FSAs. They are living off me now, I'll live off them later

 

[Rider]

If you have to put innocent people down to sustain yourself and your family, well I guess that's survival. I'm just trying to wade through the masses to see who I need to look out for. Advanced recon will help me make decisive actions later.

This is a bit of a digression, but that is one of the morals of the story in Collision Course, isn't it? (spoiler alert!) DJ thinks he is one of the good guys, but as the story progresses, it becomes more and more clear that he is not. Meanwhile other characters who are drawn as bad turn out quite the opposite. At the end of the day, it comes down to what you are willing to do to survive, and how you are willing to do it.

I have little doubt that there are a lot of people who will literally or figuratively lay down and die in a SHTF scenario because they are not equipped to deal with it. Many others will revert to animal behavior to some degree. And many of us who think that we have it all figured out will find that is not the case. I don't exclude myself from this category. For all the work I have done, I am well aware that the world can throw curve balls your way and that your ability to deal with them correctly and quickly is critical. This is where the advice of your cadre(if you have one) can save you or doom you.

Nonetheless, I believe that preparing for as many contingencies as you reasonably can puts you in better shape than someone who isn't prepared for anything(ant/grasshopper) so there is value in the effort, even if at the end of the day you are living comfortably in a condo in Florida instead of a container you buried in the White Mountains.

 

[Andy in NH]

It would be nice to see people putting as much time and effort into planning to put things back together once the SHTF as they do planning to rob and kill their neighbors.

 

[Twigg]

It would be nice to see people putting as much time and effort into planning to put things back together once the SHTF as they do planning to rob and kill their neighbors.

Look on the bright side, most of the potential raiders have their pictures posted on the What do you look like? thread.

Nice of them to give preppers a target, innit it ?

 

[AllaSnackbah]

just browsed through this thread and all i can say is wow, if you are planning to prey upon innocent people to survive in any kind of shtf event, please post your general address and a good picture of yourself so the rest of us can remove any shred of doubt we would have when we ventilate your ****ing face at first sight.

 

[Archilochus]

just browsed through this thread and all i can say is wow, if you are planning to prey upon innocent people to survive in any kind of shtf event, please post your general address and a good picture of yourself so the rest of us can remove any shred of doubt we would have when we ventilate your ****ing face at first sight.

I've already requested same info several times. For some odd reason he's hesitant to give it.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

I've already requested same info several times. For some odd reason he's hesitant to give it.

disgusting, anyone caught in my neighborhood partaking in this kind of activity will learn the definition of "ruthlessness" very quickly.

 

[je25ff]

I think a lot of it has to do with he fact that the NES community generally weeds out the idiocy and more knowledgable people tend to stick around.