Surprising range day with ISSC .22 pistol

[agile_1]

I bought an ISSC .22 a few weeks ago and have had several somewhat disappointing range trips with it. Lots of failure to eject and failure to feed. But today's trip was a surprise - 100 mini-mags and zero malfunctions.

I started with two magazines loaded with 8 rounds. No malfunctions so I upped the next 6 magazines to 9 rounds. Still no malfunctions. Now I was getting hopeful. I loaded the next 3 magazines with 10 rounds. No malfunctions! The gun got through 100 rounds with zero malfunctions! Given it's history I was very surprised. I am very much hoping this gun is through it's break in period and reliability will continue to improve. The manual says to break it in with CCI mini-mags and I have 1900 more in the safe ready to go!

My plan was to use the ISSC .22 for a plinker and for general target practice but the reliability factor was starting to be a big disappointment. Hoping that has reversed itself. On the plus side - very low recoil even for a .22, and ergonomics are like a compact sized Glock.

Breakdown of ISSC .22 range trips so far:

trip 1 (04/08/2012) - 100 CCI mini-mag with 17 malfunctions - field strip and clean
trip 2 (04/28/2012) - 45 CCI mini-mags with 3 malfunctions - field strip and clean
trip 3 (05/06/2012) - 55 mini-mags - approx 5 malfunctions [sad2], 50 American Eagle 40gr lead round nose hv approx 10 malfunctions - field strip and clean
trip 4 (05/13/2012) - 100 mini-mags 0 malfunctions - field strip and clean

It really did not like the American Eagle rounds. One casing got stuck in the barrel and I had to pry it out. Seems like American Eagle brass is sized just a little wider than CCI mini-mags.

All in all today was a satisfying trip. I was starting to really worry about the reliability of the gun. Now I feel a little better, but time will tell.

 

[JohnMarston]

i also noticed with 22's the lighter the lubricant used greatly helps the guns cycle. i have a Sig mosquito and with most oils and the supplied grease it really made it hard for it to cycle correctly. i used hoppes #9 spray lube on it previously on the last cleaning with no issues since! It likes those Remington yellow jackets, cci mini mags and it even liked the Winchester wildcat rounds. Sounds like a fun little gun in any case (when its functioning)

Dom

 

[greencobra]

The factory says this gun needs high velocity ammo and as you said, recommends CCI mini mags. They also recommend Blazer .22's. Several reviews I've seen says it will not function reliably with low velocity .22 ammo, as you found out. All reports indicate a cool little pistol, enjoy it.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Almost bought one of these a few months ago. Cool looking gun. But the mags were very hard to find. Almost impossible. Are they still hard to get?

-Al

 

[Recon-1]

Hi Agile_1
Were these all FTE or some other failure mode. The failure mode will prescribe the corrective action. Remember that friction is the worst thing for moving parts. Find out which surfaces are touching, inspect the surface roughness, and polish accordingly. Should help all around. This is exactly what takes place when some people say it needs to be "broken-in." Save yourself the pain, and learn how to polish metal surfaces.

Also, if you're getting FTF, polish the feed ramp. it makes a world of a difference.

Pullman arms has a ISSC .22
I checked it out this weekend. Nice little firearm, but I am turned off by the "need" for high velocity ammo. In my opinion, that is not a well engineered piece.

Plinking is supposed to be fun, and not a trip of misery wondering if it's the ammo or the quality of the firearm you just worked so hard to procure.

Hope the rest of your range trips are as reliable as trip#4

 

[agile_1]

Almost bought one of these a few months ago. Cool looking gun. But the mags were very hard to find. Almost impossible. Are they still hard to get?

-Al

I have had two magazines on order from their North American distributor http://www.legacysports.com/ for about six weeks. They said end of May. We will see.

 

[agile_1]

Hi Agile_1
Were these all FTE or some other failure mode. The failure mode will prescribe the corrective action. Remember that friction is the worst thing for moving parts. Find out which surfaces are touching, inspect the surface roughness, and polish accordingly. Should help all around. This is exactly what takes place when some people say it needs to be "broken-in." Save yourself the pain, and learn how to polish metal surfaces.

Also, if you're getting FTF, polish the feed ramp. it makes a world of a difference.

Pullman arms has a ISSC .22
I checked it out this weekend. Nice little firearm, but I am turned off by the "need" for high velocity ammo. In my opinion, that is not a well engineered piece.

Plinking is supposed to be fun, and not a trip of misery wondering if it's the ammo or the quality of the firearm you just worked so hard to procure.

Hope the rest of your range trips are as reliable as trip#4

Main failure mode (approx 50%) is failure to feed. The round gets jammed up against the feed ramp. The feed ramp might benefit from a good polishing, or there may be some misalignment of round in the magazine.

Second failure mode (approx 40%) is failure to eject. Round feeds but empty casing stovepipes.

Third failure mode (approx 10%) is fail to fire. There is a hammer strike but the round does not fire.

I have to agree - requiring high velocity ammo for "proper" function implies poor engineering. Even when using high v ammo there are unacceptable numbers of failures. I can't really recommend this .22 as it has been a pita. Hopefully reliability will improve with wear in. Maybe at some point I will attempt some polishing to fine tune it - if I keep it. Right now I am eyeing the new .22 from Ruger.

As far as polishing goes, what materials and process is required? I have done some grinding and polishing of ceramic materials, but metals are softer and I suspect that they require a different process.

 

[agile_1]

Had the ISSC out again this weekend. This time four malfunctions out of a 100 round box of min mags. Not too bad for a little .22. 100% reliability would be great but it is much better than it was out of the box. Overall an improvement over the first couple of range trips.

This weekend three FTE's (Failed to eject). One stove-piped and the others seemed like the ejector just slipped off the case and it jammed halfway in/out of the chamber. One failure to feed. The round got jammed up on the feed ramp and the case was pinched and dented by the slide. So - technically 99 rounds were fired and one was trashed.

Also two new magazines finally arrived this week. They will get some break-in time over the weekend.

 

[firecontrol123]

My ISSC has been not only been reliable but to my surprise very accurate as well. Over 1500 hundred rounds so far with less than 20 malfuctions, mostly with the cheaper stuff like the CCI Blazer's and Federal bulk pack. Several years ago I read an article about .22 pistols. The writer said to first clean and oil the pistol then lock the slide back for a day or two, which is what I did with both my ISSC and Sig Mosquito. And both pistols have been have been close to 100%. I just bought a Ruger SR-22 pistol and have done the same thing, clean, oil and lock the slide back and so far so good. I tried CCI Mini Mags, Blazers, American Eagle and Federal Spitfire, so far I fired 180 rounds with no FTF or FTE.

 

[agile_1]

My ISSC has been not only been reliable but to my surprise very accurate as well. Over 1500 hundred rounds so far with less than 20 malfuctions, mostly with the cheaper stuff like the CCI Blazer's and Federal bulk pack. Several years ago I read an article about .22 pistols. The writer said to first clean and oil the pistol then lock the slide back for a day or two, which is what I did with both my ISSC and Sig Mosquito. And both pistols have been have been close to 100%. I just bought a Ruger SR-22 pistol and have done the same thing, clean, oil and lock the slide back and so far so good. I tried CCI Mini Mags, Blazers, American Eagle and Federal Spitfire, so far I fired 180 rounds with no FTF or FTE.

Had another malfunction free 100 round range trip today. I am starting to believe.

That makes 4 malfunctions in the last 300 rounds. I expected a few today since I had two brand new magazines to break in but I had no problems at all. I have been shooting CCI mini-mags for these last 300 rounds. Three-8 round magazines, four-9 round magazines and four-10 round magazines today.

Yeah I have to agree about the accuracy. I am shooting at 25 feet and once I get warmed up the groups are pretty tight - for me anyway.

I did not clean it after the last range trip but today I oiled it before shooting and about halfway through. After 196 rounds it is due for a cleaning.

on edit: Another 100 rounds today - no cleaning after yesterday - 1 malfunction. Round jammed in fee ramp and got crunched by the slide. That's 400 rounds - 5 malfunctions. 200 rounds without a cleaning. It's getting pretty grimy.

 

[ToddDubya]

I'm gonna bring this thread back to life...

A friend of mine has a used M22 that is a real PITA. It doesn't seem to like ANY ammo. She's run Federal, Winchester, Remington and CCI Minimags through it with pretty consistent failures to extract (and occasional FTFs, often caused by an FTE). Like Agile1 was saying, the extractor just slips over the rim, leaving the case in the chamber.

I've shot it and it does the same for me, so I can somewhat rule out operator error. When the case is stuck, we've had to stick a wooden dowel down the barrel to pop it out. It's not a limp wrist issue, the extractor just slides right over the case rim.

So what's been done?

* Cleaned the hell out of it (slide, frame, barrel). Cleaned, degreased, oiled with Hoppes.
* Paid extra attention to the extractor to make sure it wasn't all gummed up. It pivots freely and is crud free.
* Inspected the extractor and its operation. It's got a flat, crisp edge on it which looks like it should do the job.
* Cleaned the hell out of the ejector to help with the stovepipes. My guess is it's still the ejector, but why not get after this too.

What am I missing here? It's her only .22 and it's no fun to shoot. Bang, swear, clear jam, bang, swear, clear jam... I appreciate any help, this thing is frustrating as hell.

ETA: I think her son shoots the same gun. I'll see if we can arrange a trip to see how that gun works for her (to rule out operator error). Maybe we can swap slides and see if anything changes.

 

[john_h]

What am I missing here?

It's a stinking pile. I have one sitting in my safe that I don't even want to waste ammo on. I did the recommended 200 round break-in. Tried a detail strip, etc, etc.

The only thing I think it's useful for is a malfunction trainer.

 

[JohnMarston]

Todd, whip out a cloth and some polish and go to work. polish the feed ramp, chamber if you can, if it has a hammer where the hammer contacts the slide and said portion of slide and use *light* lubricant. like hoppes #9 spray stuff...any drag on the 22's moving parts makes it work harder.

 

[ToddDubya]

Todd, whip out a cloth and some polish and go to work. polish the feed ramp, chamber if you can, if it has a hammer where the hammer contacts the slide and said portion of slide and use *light* lubricant. like hoppes #9 spray stuff...any drag on the 22's moving parts makes it work harder.

I was considering the chamber because that seems to be where the cases are sticking. I've polished a chamber with a Q-Tip and polish and it worked well. I'll go that route next. With a stuck case, racking the slide manually doesn't extract it, so I don't think the slide dragging on the hammer is a problem.

If I can get her to leave it with me for a night I'll give it the works. I hit all of the points you mentioned (minus the chamber) on another POS jam-o-matic .22 and turned it into an excellent .22.

ETA: Damn...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to THESAW249 again

 

[JohnMarston]

Lol damn it all! If the extractor has trouble sliding over the case todd give a little polishing to the extractor face. Should solve your woes.

Dom

 

[travis]

We have shot the hell out of mine. The ONLY issue I had was the slide release was cut SQUARE where it meets the bolt face and even I could not release the slide without pulling it back a bit first. A stone and a few min of rounding better then new. As far as ammo it has ate everything we have feed it so far.

 

[Gammon]

Blow back guns are extremely sensitive to the ammo used; hence the MFRs suggestion as to what to use in break in. They are also hampered by friction, so I would use an extremely light oil, my favorite is 0W20 synthetic motor oil. I apply it heavily during break in.

Another source of friction is the magazine spring which can also cause feeding problems until it is broken in. I would also leave the mags loaded for a couple of weeks to break them in. Good luck.

 

[travis]

Blow back guns are extremely sensitive to the ammo used; hence the MFRs suggestion as to what to use in break in. They are also hampered by friction, so I would use an extremely light oil, my favorite is 0W20 synthetic motor oil. I apply it heavily during break in.

Another source of friction is the magazine spring which can also cause feeding problems until it is broken in. I would also leave the mags loaded for a couple of weeks to break them in. Good luck.

Motor oil on a firearm??

 

[JohnMarston]

Motor oil on a firearm??

yep, it works very well. Light oils like the one mentioned by Gammon are used in tight tolerance engines that run at high temperatures, whats to say it wouldn't work wonderfully on a gun? And it does, give it a whirl.

Dom

 

[ToddDubya]

Motor oil on a firearm??

yep, it works very well. Light oils like the one mentioned by Gammon are used in tight tolerance engines that run at high temperatures, whats to say it wouldn't work wonderfully on a gun? And it does, give it a whirl.

Dom

I usually just pack the slide with grease. It's a little messy, but I know I hit all the key spots. Cold weather shooting is problematic and IWB carry is not advised when wearing your good business jeans.

Seriously though, I usually use the Hoppes light oil. It's the kind that comes in the syringe bottle.

Back to the original problem, it's not that the gun doesn't feed or cycle, it's that the extractor slips off the case rim leaving it in the chamber. I haven't seen my friend to suggest polishing the chamber (hehe, polishing the chamber) like Dom suggested.

 

[JohnMarston]

I also recommend checking the extractor tension, it may not have the gusto to extract or may be broken. A friends sig mosquito had an extractor that had split in half and would no longer work. It actually looked forked. Check er out todd.

Dom

 

[Gammon]

The interior of a modern internal combustion engine is a much more hostile environment than a firearm. When you compare the two, synthetic motor oil looks like "overkill". I have been using synthetic oil almost exclusively in my guns for over ten years. While I can't claim that it is superior to the best gun oils out there, I can say that I don't see any difference. Do the math; four ounces of Break Free (an excellent gun lube) is about $6.00. A quart of Mobil One 20w50 (my favorite for most centerfire rifles and pistols) costs less than $8.00.

 

[ToddDubya]

The interior of a modern internal combustion engine is a much more hostile environment than a firearm. When you compare the two, synthetic motor oil looks like "overkill". I have been using synthetic oil almost exclusively in my guns for over ten years. While I can't claim that it is superior to the best gun oils out there, I can say that I don't see any difference. Do the math; four ounces of Break Free (an excellent gun lube) is about $6.00. A quart of Mobil One 20w50 (my favorite for most centerfire rifles and pistols) costs less than $8.00.

Next time I change my oil I'm gonna save a few ounces. I use 10w30 (I think). Considering I don't shoot in the extreme heat or cold the viscosity should be about the same over the length of time it'll actually be on the gun.

 

[Gammon]

Next time I change my oil I'm gonna save a few ounces. I use 10w30 (I think). Considering I don't shoot in the extreme heat or cold the viscosity should be about the same over the length of time it'll actually be on the gun.

10w30 should work just fine. I use 20w50 because it is left over from oil changes in my Harley. I do find that lighter oil, such as 0w30 Amsoil, works better in 22 LR rimfire semi autos. With ammo and component prices rising at an alarming rate, it is nice to find a way to save a little $.

 

[ToddDubya]

Dom, polishing the chamber did the trick (heh heh, polishing the chamber). She put mag after mag through it without a single failure. Finally that damn thing works.

 

[JohnMarston]

hurray!! polishing does alot for guns like that, that may have a rough chamber or machining marks and spurs that may snag the already anemic 22

who doesnt like a good chamber polish