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Supreme Court Ruling and Question About Applying for LTC A

Lank

Lank

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I have always been nervous about applying for my LTC A ALP, as I was arrested 13 years ago for a crime THAT IS NOT A STATUTORY DISQULIFIER IN MA!!!!!

Pundits, please read the all caps sentence 25 times in a row before condeming me or telling me to "research the message archieve", or my favorite one, "didnt you read this same issue in a 2007 thread". Anyway, the two habitual nags on these boards know who they are, so I will leave it at that.

Anyway, do you think it's a good time to try for the LTC-A now that the debate is over that the 2nd Amendment applies to states?

I do live in a green town.
 
If you'd like to take your case to court to try to get MA and Queen Coakley to recognize today's SCOTUS ruling, then I'd say yes now would be a great time to apply.
 
Anyway, do you think it's a good time to try for the LTC-A now that the debate is over that the 2nd Amendment applies to states?
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There is a very real chance that you could bring a court action against a discretionary denial, however, that would be a long drawn out process costing tens of thousands in costs and years to get to a level in the system where the the SCOTUS decision would come to bear.

But, since you live in a green town, there is a good chance your application would be approved. If you would find getting denied to be less pleasant than paying legal fees, go in and have a chat with the licensing officer - you might get a yes. On the other hand, if getting your license is a priority, consultation with one of the attorneys specializing in this area would be a good move. An office consult won't cost all that much, and will give you the info you need to make a decision.

If you have not yet done so, get copies of all documentation relating to your case. If it ever made the courts, get court certified copies from the courthouse where the case was heard (even if it was just to dismiss the charges). The more homework you do, the more effective (and less costly) your interaction with a gun law attorney. Preparation is the essence of success.
 
Thanks all. BTW I did talk to an attorney last summer when I applied for an FID. He said the I would likely be successfull if I was denied, based on many factors. The licensing lady is nice, but I dont think she makes any decisions.
 
If you're in a green town and your arrest doesn't disqualify you, what's the problem? You might have to explain the incident, especially how you're learned and grown from it in the last 13 years. I think your best bet is to go talk to the licensing officer or COP for your town and find out where they would stand if you applied. That way, you'll know to either lawyer up or not apply yet.
 
I say just call your police department and ask for a 20 minute meeting with your chief. Then go and ask him in person what he thinks. You don't have to give him a ton of information, but just get a feeling for what he thinks you should do. It will make things a lot simpler to just discuss it beforehand, no secrecy involved.
 
You need info about the licensing authority's approach. If you were in my town, I would consider the "request an appointment" to be a very reasonable, and quite possibly productive, approach. On the other hand, if you live in a town like Brookline, all you would be doing is tipping your hand before you engaged an attorney - which you would very likely need to pursue your application in that town.
 
1) Don't meet until you speak to an attorney.
2) Don't fool yourself that 'nice lady' is probably the one who makes most of the decisions. If it's not cut and dry she may send it to the chief for review but for the majority of cases I'm guessing she makes the call.
 
"arbitrary, capricious, or an abuse of discretion" How does one prove a chief denied someone based on this. I suppose this is a lawyer question.

I dont even know why I live in Ma. Why do I need a lawyer to excercise my rights?

I am unhappy with the progress of H 2259.

Why havent we had a protest on Beacon Hill?
 
Lank said:
I have always been nervous about applying for my LTC A ALP, as I was arrested 13 years ago for a crime THAT IS NOT A STATUTORY DISQULIFIER IN MA!!!!!

...

Anyway, do you think it's a good time to try for the LTC-A now that the debate is over that the 2nd Amendment applies to states?

I do live in a green town.
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1) The SCOTUS decision has no immediate effect on MA laws, nor on the attitudes of MA police chiefs. Nothing will change here until and unless we win years-long, expensive lawsuits that have yet to be filed.

2) As others have said, get thee to a firearms lawyer.

Lank said:
Why do I need a lawyer to excercise my rights?
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Because MA statutes and precedents do not consider it to be your right. And because the "reasonable" regulations allowed in the Heller v. DC decision have yet to be defined.

Why havent we had a protest on Beacon Hill?
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Because 23 guys with signs protesting on Beacon Hill would do nothing other than prove what a toothless tiger MA gun owners are.
 
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You need an action plan, and the office consult with one of the gun law attorneys will help you prepare one. It may very well be that the attorney's advice will be for you go make an appt with the licensing officer. If you're lucky, the attorney will know how things work in this town. You also need to consider the relevant decision points you may encounter at each step of the process. For example, what will you say if the licensing officer says "tell you want, we normally issue unrestricted LTCs, but with you're record, I'm willing to issue a target one". Say "No", and you may make it harder to get anything. Say "Yes", and you may blow your chance to get the unrestricted LTC. A good attorney will counsel you on issues like this and assured you are properly prepared to present yourself properly at any meeting with the licensing officer. Not only that, but you also need to decide if you would try for a meeting with the chief or with the licensing officer - once again, an attorney familiar with the town will know which is the better approach for you.
 
M1911 said:
1) The SCOTUS decision has no immediate effect on MA laws, nor on the attitudes of MA police chiefs. Nothing will change here until and unless we win years-long, expensive lawsuits that have yet to be filed.

2) As others have said, get thee to a firearms lawyer.


Because MA statutes and precedents do not consider it to be your right. And because the "reasonable" regulations allowed in the Heller v. DC decision have yet to be defined.


Because 23 guys with signs protesting on Beacon Hill would do nothing other than prove what a toothless tiger MA gun owners are.
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Toothless tigers- so true. It would be nice to get 100,000 registered gun owners on the hill.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
If you have not yet done so, get copies of all documentation relating to your case. If it ever made the courts, get court certified copies from the courthouse where the case was heard (even if it was just to dismiss the charges). The more homework you do, the more effective (and less costly) your interaction with a gun law attorney. Preparation is the essence of success.
Click to expand...

Rob has some good advice, but especially this here. If your arrest took place before the computerization of arrest records you could run into some problems with how the typist entered things into the system when things were computerized. If you have any kind of arrest record or criminal involvement, you need a lawyer before you apply. Filling out the application incorrectly can DQ you; check out my thread on Mass. LTC DQ's in my signature line, it's explained there.

Rob Boudrie said:
You need info about the licensing authority's approach. If you were in my town, I would consider the "request an appointment" to be a very reasonable, and quite possibly productive, approach. On the other hand, if you live in a town like Brookline, all you would be doing is tipping your hand before you engaged an attorney - which you would very likely need to pursue your application in that town.
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Also correct. A lawyer can help with this part of the process too, guaging the approach.
 
GSG said:
Rob has some good advice, but especially this here. If your arrest took place before the computerization of arrest records you could run into some problems with how the typist entered things into the system when things were computerized. If you have any kind of arrest record or criminal involvement, you need a lawyer before you apply. Filling out the application incorrectly can DQ you; check out my thread on Mass. LTC DQ's in my signature line, it's explained there.



Also correct. A lawyer can help with this part of the process too, guaging the approach.
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Well, this all took place in NH, 13 years ago, and is expunged. I aired out my dirty laundry during my FID application (approved), so not sure how an attorney will help. Honesty is the best policy. I think one would help for the appeal if denied.
 
Lank said:
Well, this all took place in NH, 13 years ago, and is expunged. I aired out my dirty laundry during my FID application (approved), so not sure how an attorney will help. Honesty is the best policy. I think one would help for the appeal if denied.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that you lie or anything. I posted a huge thread on here with a list of little known gun law violations that will DQ you from a Mass. LTC for life. The below link is an excerpt from that thread.

GSG said:
Incorrectly filling out an FID or LTC application

The law relating to FID application's is MGL 140-129B(8):



The law relating to LTC applications is MGL 140-131(h):



Depending on the circumstances, it can be very easy to fill out the application incorrectly and violate this law, but "knowingly" may mean different things to different licensing officers. In other words, if you have any kind of a criminal record, you should contact an attorney to walk you through the licensing process.
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People have come on here in the past and said things like "Well my record was expunged, so I'll just say I've never been arrested on my Mass. application." There's also other scenarios where people have had legal problems that are gray areas when it comes to how to put it on the application. If you don't get it right the first time you could face criminal charges/possibly never get an LTC, or just get denied and have to fight it in court. In my opinion if you have any kind of record, even if you're convinced it won't DQ you, you should talk to a lawyer before even applying for an LTC/FID in Mass. to avoid all of this drama.

It sounds like you already have talked to a lawyer, so this may not apply to you, but I know that a lot of people read this forum without posting just to get info, so I post with my entire audience in mind, that's all.
 
Lank said:
Well, this all took place in NH, 13 years ago, and is expunged. I aired out my dirty laundry during my FID application (approved), so not sure how an attorney will help. Honesty is the best policy. I think one would help for the appeal if denied.
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Your goal is to avoid a denial. The success rate is on appeals is not particularly great, and the cost is high, far higher than a 1 hour consult.

A firearms attorney may well know the licensing officer in your town, having dealt with him in the past. He knows how best to present such issues, what questions to anticipate, and the best way to frame the answers -- the same information can be presented in very different ways, resulting in different outcomes. He's been down this road before.
 
Well, this all took place in NH, 13 years ago, and is expunged. I aired out my dirty laundry during my FID application (approved), so not sure how an attorney will help. Honesty is the best policy. I think one would help for the appeal if denied.
Click to expand...

The FID is "shall issue", so you have not been through the discretionary suitability filter. The fact that the FID was issued means only that the issuing authority was willing to follow the law and do what was required of him/her, nothing else.

I all comes down to a simple question. Do you want the best chance of success, or do wish to minimize expense? These are mutually exclusive options. Consulting with an attorney does not guarantee you will succeed, and going pro-se does not mean you are doomed to failure - but the odds are better with the advice and counsel of someone who knows the system and the players far better than you do.
 
Gotcha, others can learn from your comments. The application is actually pretty clear (to me), so that's why I was 100% accurate on my FID application.

Having an expunged record may be much more useful during an appeal.


Sooooo who's called their representatives today urging them to "get H 2259 out of committee favorably" so a vote can be taken this week?

I usually call mid week. Just saying.
 
Lank said:
Sooooo who's called their representatives today urging them to "get H 2259 out of committee favorably" so a vote can be taken this week?

I usually call mid week. Just saying.
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Not me. With McDonald it doesn't make sense to accept all of that compromise now. H2259 will do more harm than good to Mass. gun owners now IMO.
 
GSG said:
Not me. With McDonald it doesn't make sense to accept all of that compromise now. H2259 will do more harm than good to Mass. gun owners now IMO.
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How do you figure? H 2259 as passed will make MA a shall issue state, as I understand.
 

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