Supreme Court and Drug Dogs

[Midnight412]

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/10/scotus-drug-dogs/

This should be viewed as a big deal to our rights. If the Supreme Court rules that drug dogs can be used at will, then I see police starting to use dogs for whatever they feel like, walking around the neighborhood.

Concern later is explosive sniffing dogs looking for houses with "explosives" - Now all the sudden, the police are getting search warrants to get into your house because their dog smelled some powder residue on your doorstep from the last time you got back from the range, or walked out of your house after a reloading session.

 

[Boghog1]

It's okay, That Guy let us know we are guilty until proven innocent

 

[Jose]

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/10/scotus-drug-dogs/

This should be viewed as a big deal to our rights. If the Supreme Court rules that drug dogs can be used at will, then I see police starting to use dogs for whatever they feel like, walking around the neighborhood.

Concern later is explosive sniffing dogs looking for houses with "explosives" - Now all the sudden, the police are getting search warrants to get into your house because their dog smelled some powder residue on your doorstep from the last time you got back from the range, or walked out of your house after a reloading session.

While I agree with you in general, your concerns about dogs hitting on gunpowder residue is really tin foil hattish.

1) Smokeless powder is not an explosive. It is chemically different and is classified as a propellant.

2) Black powder is an explosive, but so what?

3) Maybe you have reason to worry about that in Mass, but elsewhere, cops don't GAF if you have gunpowder in your house.

I do hope the SC smacks down the use of sniffing dogs and hard.

 

[[cerberus]]

I thought I saw a while back a video where an officer used his dog to create a false positive so he could search a vehicle. Somone got it on camera that he gave him a command to sit, and bam warrant was issued.

 

[ntomsw]

It's okay, That Guy let us know we are guilty until proven innocent

Are you being sarcastic?

 

[HTRN]

Are you being sarcastic?

Nope, in the Zimmerman thread, user "That Guy" proclaimed that if you take the life of someone, you are guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Admin]

I thought I saw a while back a video where an officer used his dog to create a false positive so he could search a vehicle. Somone got it on camera that he gave him a command to sit, and bam warrant was issued.

There is one issue I have with it.

 

[ntomsw]

Nope, in the Zimmerman thread, user "That Guy" proclaimed that if you take the life of someone, you are guilty until proven innocent.

Oh boy, I missed that one. I will have to go find it.

 

[Jose]

There is one issue I have with it.

Absolutely, there is plenty of reason to get rid of the G-D dogs.

It's just funny when the Ma**h*** paranoia about gunpowder residue comes up.

 

[Fixxah]

Oh boy, I missed that one. I will have to go find it.

Page 93 I think. Or 44 if you have 20 posts per page.

-tapatalk and Devin McCourty blow chunks-

 

[ntomsw]

Absolutely, there is plenty of reason to get rid of the G-D dogs.

It's just funny when the Ma**h*** paranoia about gunpowder residue comes up.

I don't think it's Massachusetts paranoia by any means. Just something typical that would happen for a cop to screw you. Maybe that would happen here more so than other parts of the country. I don't know. It still wouldn't surprise me to read this elsewhere. Not just MA.

 

[HTRN]

I don't think it's Massachusetts paranoia by any means. Just something typical that would happen for a cop to screw you. Maybe that would happen here more so than other parts of the country. I don't know. It still wouldn't surprise me to read this elsewhere. Not just MA.

Every time I fly I get alarmed for nitro. It must be residue from my carry pistol(s).

If the hacks at DHS are searching for it, I don't see it as a stretch to have dogs alarm on nitro based compounds.

 

[OfficerObie59]

What I've never fully understood is the legal distinction between a dog's nose and electronic equipment.

For example, in Kyllo, SCOTUS ruled you couldn't use a heat-seeking lamp to determine whether someone's home was giving off heat consistent with a marijuana grow. Well, if you have a privacy interest in the heat being released from your home, why not the undetectable-to-a-human scent of the pot (or explosives, etc.)?

The courts have long drawn the exception that a dog's nose was "sui generous" and one of a kind. And I've never understood why that should matter; it seems as at risk for abuse as other methods and tools that go beyond human detection. Not to mention use of a dog on your car is one thing, a home is quite another.

 

[Jose]

I don't think it's Massachusetts paranoia by any means. Just something typical that would happen for a cop to screw you. Maybe that would happen here more so than other parts of the country. I don't know. It still wouldn't surprise me to read this elsewhere. Not just MA.

Once again, smokeless powder is significantly different than explosives.

Like I mentioned before, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to get rid drug sniffers. Getting jammed up for having gunpowder in your house is not one of them.

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Every time I fly I get alarmed for nitro. It must be residue from my carry pistol(s).

If the hacks at DHS are searching for it, I don't see it as a stretch to have dogs alarm on nitro based compounds.

Yeah, so it does. What has ever happened to you?

 

[ntomsw]

Once again, smokeless powder is significantly different than explosives.

Like I mentioned before, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to get rid drug sniffers. Getting jammed up for having gunpowder in your house is not one of them.

I agree, that may not be the sole reason you get busted, just wouldn't surprise me. We all have cache's & arsenals in our houses don't forget.

I agree about getting rid of drug dogs though, or sniffing dogs period. We can agree on that at least.

 

[Fixxah]

They are officers after all. Animals are always on the good side of the good VS evil equation. Therefore can't be compromised with a milkbone.

-tapatalk and Devin McCourty blow chunks-

 

[HTRN]

Yeah, so it does. What has ever happened to you?

Please clarify your question.

My point is that what is to stop the dogs from being trained to alarm on all nitro compounds, the same as other explosives thereby triggering a PC for home search?

 

[ntomsw]

Please clarify your question.

My point is that what is to stop the dogs from being trained to alarm on all nitro compounds, the same as other explosives thereby triggering a PC for home search?

That was kind of my point. As soon as they smell 1 little thing, next thing you know all your rights are being violated. It just wouldn't surprise me.

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Next thing you know, they get you for a storage violation or some dumb shit.

 

[Boris]

problems with dogs? fight fire with fire, call 911, agencies don't talk to each other anyways, so good chance they'll just shoot each other and each other dogs

 

[Midnight412]

So take it back a level from firearms and ammo. What about fireworks? They are explosives. Cops going around neighborhoods the week of July 4th, searching and confiscating.

As others have said, the dogs should be done away with.

 

[endus]

They'll allow this. They already allowed the exact same thing for cars.

Most important link in the article: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/..._1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog

The cop just pokes the dog's a**h*** and it "alerts" and bam they can search. It's a license to search anyone they want.

 

[Midnight412]

If your property is posted "No Trespassing" does this prevent police from the casual walk to the front door with the sniffer dog?

 

[Jose]

My point is that what is to stop the dogs from being trained to alarm on all nitro compounds, the same as other explosives thereby triggering a PC for home search?

You were found with nitroglycerin/nitrocellulose residue on you at the entrance to a secured area of the airport.

Were you detained?

Were you interrogated?

Were you physically searched?

Were you arrested?

You guys keep on worrying about the gunpowder. I have better things to expend energy on.

 

[HTRN]

You were found with nitroglycerin/nitrocellulose residue on you at the entrance to a secured area of the airport.

Were you detained?

Were you interrogated?

Were you physically searched?

Were you arrested?

You guys keep on worrying about the gunpowder. I have better things to expend energy on.

Detained, yes
Searched, yes

Else, No.

 

[ntomsw]

If your property is posted "No Trespassing" does this prevent police from the casual walk to the front door with the sniffer dog?

Yeah right.

Well down south it did. I remember a thread a few weeks back where a couple of men killed some cops who were trespassing and than posted pictures of their dead bodies out front.

 

[OfficerObie59]

They are officers after all. Animals are always on the good side of the good VS evil equation. Therefore can't be compromised with a milkbone.

-tapatalk and Devin McCourty blow chunks-

About 10 or 11 years ago, someone at Abington HS on the South Shore got tipped off that the police were doing a dog sniff of all the lockers. In anticipation of the search, the students put dog treats in a number of lockers.

I think some of you guys areg going overboard with the "Get rid of all the dogs" claims. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are good arguments to be made for restricting their use in neighborhoods and situations like the case deals with, but dogs that can smell dangerous materials have legitmate functions at high-risk locations like sporting events and transit hubs. Also don't forget many drug dogs are cross trained for human tracking and cadaver detection.

 

[HTRN]

About 10 or 11 years ago, someone at Abington HS on the South Shore got tipped off that the police were doing a dog sniff of all the lockers. In anticipation of the search, the students put dog treats in a number of lockers.

That's awesome..

I'd give my kids bacon to put in.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Yeah right.

Well down south it did. I remember a thread a few weeks back where a couple of men killed some cops who were trespassing and than posted pictures of their dead bodies out front.

I think you'd need something a little bit more explicit, like a privacy fence posted with a sign like "Do not enter. Ring alarm and someone will come out to meet you." "Trespass" is a loaded word and often requires some mal-intent; if the police feel they have a legitmate purpose, they could claim they're not trespassing.

Use the mailman test. If your mailman (or garbage man, or any other routine serviceman) can go there, you have been deemed to relinquish your privacy claims, and the police can go there without a warrant.

- - - Updated - - -

That's awesome..

I'd give my kids bacon to put in.

The maple kind?

 

[ntomsw]

I think you'd need something a little bit more explicit, like a privacy fence posted with a sign like "Do not enter. Ring alarm and someone will come out to meet you." "Trespass" is a loaded word and often requires some mal-intent; if the police feel they have a legitmate purpose, they could claim they're not trespassing.

Use the mailman test. If your mailman can go there, you have been deemed to relinquish your privacy claims, and the police can go there without a warrant.

I see your point. Without expounding, that is kind of what I was saying to the person who asked. Anyone can put up a Walmart No Trespassing sign. I am not sure if it's going to do anything.

Now if you have a 6 foot tall fence wrapped around your house with a locked gate, and they still pop in, that to me is adifferent scenario.

 

[Cap]

I've read that the dogs can give false positives purely for attention if they haven't found something in a while.