Suitability with an arrest record

Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
535
Likes
15
Feedback: 21 / 0 / 0
Here is an interesting case I wanted to ask those more knowledgeable about the application process in regards to applying for a Class A with an arrest record.

I recently caught up with one of my BFS class students and learned that he had yet to apply for his Class A after taking my class. As the conversation progressed I learned that he was hesitant to as he had an arrest in his youth. Here are the relevant facts:

He is:

  • Late 30's
  • Schoolteacher
  • Very active in a philanthropic social organization
  • Lives in a green town
  • Was arrested in his teens for trespassing
  • Pled CWOF and was not convicted

As I understand the law he does not have a statutory disqualification but a chief could find him unsuitable if he was a stickler. He is worried about applying and getting denied for obvious reasons. I told him that I would get back to him in a few days; at this point I plan on advising him to go to the courthouse and get his record so he knows exactly what he's dealing with, then make an appointment with his chief. This way he can sit down with the chief, let him know that he wants to apply for a permit, highlight all of his strong points, then bring up the arrest and ask the chief what he thinks and express his concern over getting denied. Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Taking everything you posted at face value I can't imagine he'll have any trouble.
 
Your course of action really depends on the what you can find out about the town.

If it were my town, I would tell you to submit your application, tell the truth, and put a cover letter on the ap so they cannot miss the fact that you are volunteering the info, and then expect fair treatment. In some other towns, I would advise getting an attorney. If he lived in Brookline, I'd recommend he move :).
 
Your course of action really depends on the what you can find out about the town.

If it were my town, I would tell you to submit your application, tell the truth, and put a cover letter on the ap so they cannot miss the fact that you are volunteering the info, and then expect fair treatment. In some other towns, I would advise getting an attorney. If he lived in Brookline, I'd recommend he move :).

This. I'm seriously getting tired of having people use "lawyer up" as a blanket statement, NES is slowly turning these firearms lawyers into gods [thinking]
 
This. I'm seriously getting tired of having people use "lawyer up" as a blanket statement, NES is slowly turning these firearms lawyers into gods [thinking]

My thoughts exactly. While I realize some chiefs can be jerks this situation is well within the abilities of a common man to understand and go have a discussion with his police chief. Thanks for your input everyone, I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing anything when I gave him advice.
 
My thoughts exactly. While I realize some chiefs can be jerks this situation is well within the abilities of a common man to understand and go have a discussion with his police chief. Thanks for your input everyone, I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing anything when I gave him advice.

PM me his town and I'll see if his CLEO isn't one that my boss is in contact with, might be able to give you a better idea.
 
Was it simple trespass, or trespass on private land with intent to shoot? An ASF-CWOF on a charge like that could create some headaches for him depending on the town. But if it's simple trespass I doubt he'd have any problems in a green town. It all depends on the town though.
 
He could consult with a lawyer for a predetermined fee. I did this, and called one and said I can spend $100 for a consult. He confirmed my research and position during our talk.

You want free advice? Honesty is the best policy. Question 9 reads, if I recall correctly, "have you ever been a defendant in a court of law"

His answer would be yes, and an explination is required. What town does he live in?
 
Depends on the town. I know of a person who had multiple "issues" in his past. He failed to mention some of them on his app and the licensing officer called him to give a stern lecture. The guy pleaded stupid, which he is, and a few weeks later he recieved his LTC-A:NR.
 
If he is in a (truly) green town, and explains his situation properly, he probably won't have any issues. It's the "explaining your situation properly" part that some people have issues with.

-Mike
 
It is my understanding that he is no longer a member. I'm not sure what happened, but I'm pretty sure he's gone. Here is his website if you want to get in touch with him.

http://www.attorneycohen.com/

Jesse is no longer on NES but I have used his services and he is a great attorney. I reccommend him very highly. I am not a lawyer but it doesn't sound like your student has anything to worry about. Still, he should get a copy of his CORI and schedule a consult.
 
Simply declare it on the application. Failure to do so could cause problems.

He could always talk to the chief. Most of them are pretty nice people you know :)
Jon,

Thanks for being a voice of reason! I agree there are many cases where it is wise to contact an attorney first. I think the "contact an attorney right away" approach is way over used. Some people are being charged alot of money by the attorneys when they dont have to worry about anything.

Answer honestly on question 10 and submit your application. No matter what, if you have an attorney or not, you will have to do this. On its face value I dont see where a suitability factor would come into play. If you get denied then contact the attorney.

I feel bad for people who have to deal with Red Chief's. But the fact is most Chiefs, even most Red Chiefs, will issue an LTC-A to an applicant with a record as described by the OP. You and I may not be happy with the restriction on that LTC, however that is another fight that with or without a attorney is a crap shoot at best in a Red town. Theer are not many judgemets regarding restrictions only whether the Chief has to issue the LTC.
 
If you get denied then contact the attorney.

I disagree with this advice. A denial follows your around forever. It must always be disclosed when applying for renewal, for non-rez licenses and for rez licesnses in other states. A simple consult with an attorney is inexpensive and can save you a lifetime of legal baggage.
 
Like others have said it all depends on the town. I would tell him to save his money because when your friend sits down with his local police dept and goes over his application he is going to have to say if he has even been in front of a judge. At that point the officer is going to tell him if what he got arrested for is a big deal or not to them. He's not going to continue to put in your application to the State police if at that point you tell him just to forget it. Your friend can use the few hundred bucks that he was going to spend on an attorney towards buying his first gun.
 
yeah I was told to get a lawyer and the guy charged me $250 and really didn't do anything at all. He read my letter and reviewed my application for errors, but other then that he didn't help me at all.
 
yeah I was told to get a lawyer and the guy charged me $250 and really didn't do anything at all. He read my letter and reviewed my application for errors, but other then that he didn't help me at all.

Sure he did. He, as a person who is knowlegable in Mass firearms law made sure your letter and application were sound, error free and that they didn't present any obstacles against approval. What other help were you looking for?

That being said, $250 sounds high. Did you shop around?
 
At that point the officer is going to tell him if what he got arrested for is a big deal or not to them. He's not going to continue to put in your application to the State police if at that point you tell him just to forget it.

Not necessarily true. I live in a green town with a very friendly and helpful licensing officer. I clearly described a statutory DQ on my application (I didn't know it was at the time) and no one said a word to me until I was denied. Maybe it was overlooked or maybe it is their policy not to give that kind of advice, but I had to go through the appeals process, which took more than 6 months. Trust me, if you have any doubt about your application, run it by a lawyer. It is worth the expense to save the headache later.
 
Last edited:
I had a trespassing charge with a CWOF and received my ltcA-NR With no problem. like most have been saying I acknowledged it and explained to the licensing officer everything. 4 weeks later I received my license. that's my story, hope it turns out well for your student.
 
If the Chief is green the lawyer may not be neccesary. BUT, a few hundred dollars to consult with an attorney is nothing compared to a life time of being without the LTC.

There's a lot of information that we don't have. For example, does the guy teach in the same town that he lives in? If so he probably knows somebody who knows the COP. Does he have any personal relationships with LEO or the COP himself. If it were me I would find someone I know that knows the COP. I would have them run the hypothetical by the COP.
 
A friend had an arrest at age 17 or so for disorderly or something like that. Went to court and had a CWOF.

He put that on his app and got his LTC-A without a question. Yes, he is in a green town, somewhat of a rural town actually.

If the town is otherwise green I'd just send in the app.
 
Not necessarily true. I live in a green town with a very friendly and helpful licensing officer. I clearly described a statutory DQ on my application (I didn't know it was at the time) and no one said a word to me until I was denied. Maybe it was overlooked or maybe it is their policy not to give that kind of advice, but I had to go through the appeals process, which took more than 6 months. Trust me, if you have any doubt about your application, run it by a lawyer. It is worth the expense to save the headache later.

You explained to the actual licensing officer (the one who makes the yes or no decisions) told him your story and he waited 4-6 weeks to tell you that you were denied? Doesn't sound very friendly or helpful, he would have had his mind made up the second you told him your DQ event. Maybe as a policy they take your application anyway so you can't say they wouldn't even consider it?
 
Last edited:
Doesn't sound very friendly or helpful, he would have had his mind made up the second you told him your DQ event. Maybe as a policy they take your application anyway so you can't say they wouldn't even consider it?

The licensing officer has no jurisdiction over a statatory DQ. Basically, even if he wants to license you, if you have a DQ he can't.

My guess is that it was my local department's policy to leave the statatory issues to the state and to only address matters of suitability, which is their primary role in the process. They were very clear when I got my denial that I had no roadblocks other than the statatory issue, which was lifted when I appealed to the Mass Licensing Review Board. Everything worked out in the end but it was a long process that could have been made a little less painful (or, at least, it would have been clearer to me) had I sought legal advice before I applied.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the replies and PM's guys - I'm sure that he will be very happy to hear that others have faced the same thing and didn't have it be an issue. I'm going to pressure him to get it done sooner rather then later... It's a shame how many people I know whose timeline to get a Class A was determined by the $100 license fee. At least knowing that his record won't affect him leaves him with only the $100 hurdle.
 
I've said it before In one of my older posts and I'll say it again here:

Seeing a lawyer about this before filing the application is like going to see a doctor because "that mole" doesn't seem to look right any more. Just having a professional "proofread" the application in advance could save thousands in damage control efforts.

If you are concerned about it, go pick up the phone!

JonJ's attorney list posting Has a bunch of links.
Jessee Cohen is the third name there.
The author of the 9th sticky in the same subforum (labeled "Tips on Applying for LTC-Important Info") is Keith Langer. He's the 7th name on that list.
 
The licensing officer has no jurisdiction over a statatory DQ. Basically, even if he wants to license you, if you have a DQ he can't.
This is absolutely true. But we are not talking about a statutory DQ. There is a list of statutory DQ's that if you you have, or think you may have, been charged with you should absolutely contact an attorney regarding that matter. In this case it is clear to everbody that the charge was a very minor charge decades prior. Why spend $250 with an attorney? On question 10 you still have to list your charge and the PD will research the disposition of that case. You are not required to explain what happened on the application just if you were charged.
3 things could happen A) without asking they already know this is nothing they need to worry about and grant the license B) they ask you about the circumstances of the charge. You honestly explain I was 16yo, made a mistake, and was caught tresspassing "where ever". I have never been in trouble since. They then grant you your license C) application denied for sutability.
My point is the only help an attorney in this situation is going to provide is your "story" of the charge if asked. This is not going to be a tribunal. I think most people are capable of giving an honest consise answer that accurately answers the question.
No matter what a lawyer says you still have to answer question 10 and nothing you put on your application is going to sway the COP on his views of suitability. If your application is that much of a concern the COP will get the report on the circumstances of the arrest and determine suitability on that not on what the applicant says. In that case you will need an attorney after the fact to fight a bogus suitabilaty denial
If the report reads that a 16yo was caught walking down the railroad tracks and was arrested for trespassing" that is way different from a "16yo who was arrested for being part of a left wing liberal animal rights group that was charged with tresspassing while they attempted to free the monkeys from the research lab".
 
This is absolutely true. But we are not talking about a statutory DQ. There is a list of statutory DQ's that if you you have, or think you may have, been charged with you should absolutely contact an attorney regarding that matter. In this case it is clear to everbody that the charge was a very minor charge decades prior. Why spend $250 with an attorney? On question 10 you still have to list your charge and the PD will research the disposition of that case. You are not required to explain what happened on the application just if you were charged.
3 things could happen A) without asking they already know this is nothing they need to worry about and grant the license B) they ask you about the circumstances of the charge. You honestly explain I was 16yo, made a mistake, and was caught tresspassing "where ever". I have never been in trouble since. They then grant you your license C) application denied for sutability.
My point is the only help an attorney in this situation is going to provide is your "story" of the charge if asked. This is not going to be a tribunal. I think most people are capable of giving an honest consise answer that accurately answers the question.
No matter what a lawyer says you still have to answer question 10 and nothing you put on your application is going to sway the COP on his views of suitability. If your application is that much of a concern the COP will get the report on the circumstances of the arrest and determine suitability on that not on what the applicant says. In that case you will need an attorney after the fact to fight a bogus suitabilaty denial
If the report reads that a 16yo was caught walking down the railroad tracks and was arrested for trespassing" that is way different from a "16yo who was arrested for being part of a left wing liberal animal rights group that was charged with tresspassing while they attempted to free the monkeys from the research lab".

Bad advice!
It isn't clear that this was a very minor charge decades ago. Further, how do you suppose the average person can present his/her case better than an attorney who practices in this field, knows the laws and most likely has a relationship with the COP? If nothing else the fact that the applicant hires an attorney will demonstrate to the COP that the applicant is serious in his desire to get an LTC.
 
Or waste his money. I am familiar with the details surrounding the event and it was a very minor charge decades ago, and he wasn't even convicted. Several people both in this thread and via PM have confirmed that they got their licenses despite very similar circumstances and they simply listed the violation on their app on the appropriate space. I highly doubt that the attorneys that cover this sort of thing "most likely have a relationship with the COP" of a town picked out of a hat.

We live in the great USA and it is everyone's right to be able to spend their money as they see fit; if someone feels like they cannot do the research on this or they cannot understand it, people like lawyers and insurance companies will be happy to take your money. As for this I will recommend to him that he just lists it on his application like the several members on here did and I will post the results in the Guide to Gun Rights in your MA Town thread.
 
Back
Top Bottom