Suggestions For Newbe

[kevin9]

As a newbe to firearms I thought I'd run the list of guns I plan to buy first by folks to get their take. Please be gentle.

1) .22LR rifle. This would be used for plinking and varmit control. Not sure what type (bolt, lever or semiauto), make or model. Suggestions? I hear the Ruger 10/22 mentioned alot, particularly for it's customizability, but I don't plan to trick this rifle out. I'm just looking for something rugged, accurate and easy to use for not a great deal of money. I plan to buy this one new and probably use it a fair amount.

2) 12GA pump shotgun. This will be kept around the house for home defense, probably loaded with #00. I've heard about something called tactical loads but am not sure exactly what they actually are or where to get them. I see Remington has a 870 Defender model, but I gather there are other makes and models that will work well too. I'm not sure whether I need to buy this one new, but it appears that shortish barreled pump shotguns are bit hard to find used.

3) .357 Revolver. To be kept in the bedroom for home defense (backup to the shotgun). Again, I'm not sure what make or model to get. I don't need anything fancy, but it does need to be reliable.

I'm also debating what to get for a Katrina gun, but I'll put that in a seperate thread.

TIA
Kevin

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

For a .22, you can't go wrong with the Ruger 10/22, its a great little gun and very accurate right out of the box. Be sure to get a bunch of mags with it and lots of ammo.....you'll have a lot of fun with it.

If you want to save a few bucks, I suggest the Mossberg 500, 590 or any variant of it for a shotgun. Barrels are available for them in a variety of lengths. Pistol grips also available cheap.

For a revolver, I only have experience with S&W. I have the model 28 Highway Patrolman and like it. Its a big gun with big grips so be sure to get one that fits your hands. Revolvers are usually very common and fairly cheap on the used market and most haven't been fired much at all. I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy a new revolver....theres just too many good ones out there that have hardly been used.

 

[SiameseRat]

Welcome aboard!

I have a Ruger 10/22. I didn't trick it out, it's fun, it's cheap, I love it. It's just a little tricky getting used to the combination of push/pull/press to get the bolt to lock and unlock, but just have the guys at the shop show you how to do it. For the money, there's nothing better in my book.

For .357, I'd recommend a S&W 686. (I Have the 686P, 7 shots, 4" barrel) It's reliable, good looking, and feels great in the hand.

I'm sure a lot of people will recommend both. For shotgun, I have no idea. I don't own one, don't shoot one. Sorry. But definitely 2 firearms worth purchasing, and neither will break the bank...

 

[Mr Weebles]

As a newbe to firearms I thought I'd run the list of guns I plan to buy first by folks to get their take. Please be gentle.

1) .22LR rifle. This would be used for plinking and varmit control. Not sure what type (bolt, lever or semiauto), make or model. Suggestions? I hear the Ruger 10/22 mentioned alot, particularly for it's customizability, but I don't plan to trick this rifle out. I'm just looking for something rugged, accurate and easy to use for not a great deal of money. I plan to buy this one new and probably use it a fair amount.

2) 12GA pump shotgun. This will be kept around the house for home defense, probably loaded with #00. I've heard about something called tactical loads but am not sure exactly what they actually are or where to get them. I see Remington has a 870 Defender model, but I gather there are other makes and models that will work well too. I'm not sure whether I need to buy this one new, but it appears that shortish barreled pump shotguns are bit hard to find used.

3) .357 Revolver. To be kept in the bedroom for home defense (backup to the shotgun). Again, I'm not sure what make or model to get. I don't need anything fancy, but it does need to be reliable.

I'm also debating what to get for a Katrina gun, but I'll put that in a seperate thread.

TIA
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Welcome to the world of firearms ownership! I'm sure this has been said to you a thousand times, but always remember, safety first. OK, that out of the way ....

1. .22LR: Ruger 10/22 is a fine choice. I have one and love it. Even if you don't want to customize it (although you will eventually!), it meets your other requirements of rugged, accurate and easy to use for not a great deal of money. One thing to keep in mind is that you'll need to find the best type of ammo for your 10/22. Buy a bunch of different brands and figure out which your particular rifle likes best. Fortunately, mine eats just about anything.

2. Remington 870: Another great choice. Because you can change the barrels, your one gun can do many things, i.e. wingshooting, home defense, deer hunting, trap, etc. I have one and love it.

I'll let someone else answer your question regarding the .357.

 

[highlander]

+ 1 on the Ruger 10/22 very rugged and short money to buy. When I first read your post for shotgun Mossberg was my first thought but I will admit shotguns are not in my area of expertise.
Now as to the 357 mag I have two both Rugers A Redhawk and a GP 100 4' and I favor the GP100 as with Ruger pistols built like a bank vault accurate but as with most of todays firearms the DA trigger pull leaves something to be desired.
If single actions are what you like Ruger Blackhawk in blued or stainless and they come in several barrel lengths again a pistol that takes a lickin and keeps on tickin.

 

[fubar]

Kevin .... there is also the real gun , tha American classic created by the Patron Saint of handguns : St. JM Browing 's govt model 1911a1 .45acp.

Put it on you list even if it's for another year.

 

[kevin9]

Thank all for your suggestions to date.

Seems the 10/22 is the unanimous recommendation so far. That's a good point Mr. Weebles on finding out which ammo works best. I did that when I bought my .22 PCP air rifle, and have read it several times since, but it's good to be reminded again.

If you want to save a few bucks, I suggest the Mossberg 500, 590 or any variant of it for a shotgun. Barrels are available for them in a variety of lengths. Pistol grips also available cheap.

Mossberg and Ithica are the other 2 brands I've seen around. I probably would not want just a pistol grip on the shotgun. Most of what I've read indicates that 12 gauges are just too difficult to shoot accurately and effectively without a shoulder stock. I'm no Arnold

I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy a new revolver....theres just too many good ones out there that have hardly been used.

That's what I figured. I expect to buy the revolver used and was looking for suggestion for several different makes and models to keep an eye out for.

Fubar, if the price is right (~=used 357 revolver), or someday when I've got the disposable funds. For the time being there are other firearms that I think are of more use to me.

 

[Executive]

If you want accuracy, try out the lesser known Ruger 77/22 Bolt action. Very nice rifle.

You can't go wrong with an 870 shotgun.

For the .357, the Smith and Wesson 686 is as reliable and solid as they come. Go for the 4" version. Versatile and fun.

Good luck.

 

[OAR348]

For a .22 I'd recomend a Mossberg 702. Cheap and mine has been ultra reliable, and I just like the 702 over my buddies 10/22.

I probably would not want just a pistol grip on the shotgun. Most of what I've read indicates that 12 gauges are just too difficult to shoot accurately and effectively without a shoulder stock. I'm no Arnold

Don't, I have a Mossberg 500 Cruiser. With out a stock its pretty much useless, and follow up shots were a PITA for me. Only reason I have it now is because it looks cool and I might be selling it (if I can get it to work). I'd suggest a Remington 870 over the Mossbergs, imo. And even then when you have something that long I'd rather have a rifle(like an AR-15) than a shotgun, but thats jmo.

One of my buddies had a old S&W Model 66 and it was a great gun.

 

[Shane]

2) 12GA pump shotgun. This will be kept around the house for home defense, probably loaded with #00.

I'm a newbie. I shot a 12 gauge for the first time last week. We shot slugs. I only shot 6 rounds from it and my shoulder still has a mild bruise.

The concussion made my teeth rattle. The recoil was borderline painful, even after I made sure I held it tight as I could. The power they pack is phenomenal. For newbies (like me) I think the concussion and recoil can become an accuracy issue.

Perhaps someone with more experience could chime in, but my guess is that a 12 gauge with #00 buck could be overkill in a home defense situation.

12 gauge + intruder = messy

I'm not so sure you would actually want to kill the intruder in such a violent fashion. Depending on where you hit the intruder with the 12 gauge, there is a good chance it would be a closed casket funeral.

Shooting the 12 gauge made me consider possibly utilizing a smaller gauge shotgun or at the very least, a lighter load for home defense. I imagine these other options could be just as effective in a home defense situation, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Anybody else think a 16 gauge or 20 gauge may be a better choice for home defense?

 

[EddieCoyle]

Anybody else think a 16 gauge or 20 gauge may be a better choice for home defense?

Nope. If an armed intruder breaks into my house while I'm home, there's no such thing as "too dead". Nothing says "You picked the wrong house" better than a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with #1 buckshot.

As for my recommendations:

10/22
Mossberg 500
Any non-J frame S&W .357

I'd also recommend getting them used. I have all of the above that I picked up used for less than $700 total.

Also, before you start putting a gun on your nightstand, you might want to peruse the MGL's.

 

[depicts]

I like the 10/22, and now with the various sized one's, you'll find something very comfortable. I like the idea of buying that new and getting at least three or four extra magazines.

The Mossburg 500 or the Reminton 870 are both good guns for low money, used or new. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 20 gauge if a 12 is too much for you. For home defense it will do just fine, and for hunting it makes the all day walk more comfortable.

I have a few Smith and Wesson .357's, my favorite is my Model 19, bought used. I also like my Ruger GP100 very much. Can't go wrong with either gun.

Like Eddie Coyle said, if you shop around, you should be able to find these guns for $600-$700 total, and have a great starting battery,

The only other comment I have is that learning rifle shooting with a single shot .22 makes you take your time and concentrate. I think it's a good first gun for anyone.

 

[Jeremiah]

.357 advice...

There's a S&W 65 for $300 in the classifieds. From what I understand the 66 and 65 are the same gun except the 66 has adjustable sights and a shrouded ejector (so the 66 was sort of the "Lux" model). I bought my first gun - a SW66 for about that money a few years ago, and I think it was a good purchase.

From my limited experience: the older 66 (and so, probably, the 65 as well) has a better trigger than the new 686, that smoothness becomes pretty important when doing the loooong double-action pull.

 

[Shane]

With the .22LR you can get 500 rounds for 10 bucks or less. Very cheap to go to the range and have a fun afternoon.

 

[Jose]

If you want accuracy, try out the lesser known Ruger 77/22 Bolt action. Very nice rifle.

Same goes for the CZ 452.

 

[vellnueve]

I would go with the 10/22 as well, it's just fun to play with, and you can buy hicaps for it as well.

Shotguns, you can't go wrong with either the 870 or the Mossberg 500. Depending on what you want to do with it. If it's strictly for home defense, get one of the 9 shot models with the heat sheild and bayonet lug, it'll make an intruder piss their pants. If you want it to be all around, it is easier to get new barrels for the 870 (I don't think they make field barrels for the extended tube 500s)

Finally, for the .357, I have a SW 520 and am very happy with it.

 

[Jose]

12 gauge + intruder = messy

I'm not so sure you would actually want to kill the intruder in such a violent fashion. Depending on where you hit the intruder with the 12 gauge, there is a good chance it would be a closed casket funeral.

Shooting the 12 gauge made me consider possibly utilizing a smaller gauge shotgun or at the very least, a lighter load for home defense. I imagine these other options could be just as effective in a home defense situation, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

First of all, contemplating what to do in a home invasion is an extremely serious proposition. Wondering what your assailant is going to look like at his funeral is an incorrect and inappropriate issue to focus on. To be blunt, who give a f*** what he ends up like?

The first, second, and last focus while repelling an intrusion is to stop the threat as quickly as possible. Not as quickly and as humanely as possible. Not as cleanly as possible. As QUICKLY as possible.

A 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buckshot is the only kind of shotgun I would consider. You are correct in that recoil is quite a handful.

IMO, there's an even better alternative:

With true military surplus ammo (M193) this is a proven and reliable fight ender. If you can't get your hands on milsurp ammo, get yourself enough Hornady TAP 75 grain ammo to fill a mag or two. You will be well equipped to defend your family and yourself.

The AR has three distinct advantages over a shotgun:

1) Its recoil is significantly less. This makes follow up shots FAR easier. Remember, not all threats stop with one shot. The sooner you can deliver the stopping power you need, the better off you are.

2) Obviously, ammo capacity and speed of reloading are vastly superior with an AR carbine.

3) An AR with close combat optics like the Aimpont Comp C or Comp M or the EOTech 500 series is significantly faster to aim than a shotgun with a bead at the front.

Whatever you do, make sure your defensive firearm has a powerful light attached to it. Target ID is critical.

 

[reinbeau]

Yes, but....in a home situation, isn't that .223 out of an AR going to go right through everything, into potentially something you don't want it to? I thought the shotgun was better because it got the target, not so much what was beyond the target?

 

[Jose]

Yes, but....in a home situation, isn't that .223 out of an AR going to go right through everything, into potentially something you don't want it to? I thought the shotgun was better because it got the target, not so much what was beyond the target?

The ammo I listed on my post is highly unlikely to leave the body.

The problem comes when you miss. There have been serious study done about the loss of energy of projectiles when they encounter common home materials. Believe it or not, 223 Remington bullets lose the most after passing through wall materials. Pistol bullets actually carry more energy after penetrating the same barrier. Buckshot and slugs are by far the worst.

Police departments have to be conscious of the HUGE liability caused by overpenetration in close quarters combat. That is one of the reasons why AR15 carbines have all but replaced the once ubiquitious HK MP5 submachinegun in entry teams.

AR15.com has a wealth of techincal info regarding 223 Remington ballistics, both in flesh and in barriers, if you can wade through all the BS there.

This site is even better.

 

[jhrosier]

...
1) .22LR rifle. This would be used for plinking and varmit control....

Every gun shop in the country has 3 or 4 nice bolt action .22 rifles looking for a home. They tend to be inexpensive, reliable, and accurate. My favorites are Mossbergs but I wouldn't turn down a Remington or Savage.

2) 12GA pump shotgun. This will be kept around the house for home defense, ....

Remington 870, in either 12 or 20 ga is hard to beat. Look in the used rack for plain barreled guns. They are "less desireable" (cheaper). Any long barrel + a hacksaw = a short barrel (do stop at 18-1/2" )
BTW, tactical loads are just lighter loads for reduced recoil. My favorite "tactical load" has always been a skeet load of #8 or #9 shot. At close range, they are like a sledge hammer and they run through my Rem. 1100 as fast as I can pull the trigger.

3) .357 Revolver. To be kept in the bedroom for home defense ....

I'm a very large fan of the Ruger Security-Six. They are the predecessor to the GP100 and are totally dependable, accurate and inexpensive. I have a 2-3/4" stainless Security-Six that I have been trying to wear out with no success for the past 30 years. I have both 2-3/4" and 4" and find that there is no meaningfull loss of accuracy with the shorter barrel but it does tuck into a pocket nicely.

 

[OAR348]

The ammo I listed on my post is highly unlikely to leave the body.

The problem comes when you miss. There have been serious study done about the loss of energy of projectiles when they encounter common home materials. Believe it or not, 223 Remington bullets lose the most after passing through wall materials. Pistol bullets actually carry more energy after penetrating the same barrier. Buckshot and slugs are by far the worst.

Police departments have to be conscious of the HUGE liability caused by overpenetration in close quarters combat. That is one of the reasons why AR15 carbines have all but replaced the once ubiquitious HK MP5 submachinegun in entry teams.

AR15.com has a wealth of techincal info regarding 223 Remington ballistics, both in flesh and in barriers, if you can wade through all the BS there.

This site is even better.

Agreed 100%. If I were the OP I would just skip all the others and get a AR-15, and you could even get a .22lr conversion kit to save $$ on ammo. I'd also suggest taking a good carbine course too.

 

[Lynne]

For the .357. my husband has a Ruger Security Six. It's a sweet gun. We've never had any problems with it either....course, we clean it after shooting it every time.

 

[greycar]

"Summary
The 55 grain HP .223 has less penetration than any of the other ammunition tested. Based on the results of this
testing, there appears to be no basis for concern regarding the over penetration of the .223 [HP] round. In fact, it
seems even safer in this regard than .40 S&W handgun ammunition."

http://www.olyarms.com/?rootView=page&page=223articles

Yes, but....in a home situation, isn't that .223 out of an AR going to go right through everything, into potentially something you don't want it to? I thought the shotgun was better because it got the target, not so much what was beyond the target?

 

[dwarven1]

My first .357 was the Model 19, the blued steel version of the Mod 66. I have a model 66 these days, as well as a Model 686P that I bought new. Expensive, but worth it. ANY of those .357's would be a good defense gun.

For a .22 rifle, I'm in the 10-22 camp. Bought one in 1981 and never regretted it. Still have it, too, pretty much stock. Although I have an extended mag release that I'm planning on putting in Real Soon Now.

I have a 12 ga Mossberg 500 with a slug barrel and a smoothbore barrel. I plan on getting a Knoxx SpecOps stock; they cut the recoil amazingly. They're pretty inexpensive on eBay, too.

 

[Twigg]

Can't believe nobody's brought this site up.

As the opinions of penetrating power and the potential of over penetrating rounds arise. I'd like to metion The Box O' Truth.The guys who run this site do a fair amount of shooting multiple calibers, loads, bullet's & shot from various firearms into an assortment of targets.

Worth a look.

 

[Jose]

As the opinions of penetrating power and the potential of over penetrating rounds arise. I'd like to metion The Box O' Truth.

+1 That place puts a lot of gun urban myths to death.

 

[Twigg]

+1 That place puts a lot of gun urban myths to death.

Old Painless & Tman kick Mythbusters *ss when it comes to guns !

 

[Len-2A Training]

10/22 hands down. Bought mine used, never modified it, great shooting gun.

Shotguns need a stock to fire accurately and to avoid massive pain (yours)! I've never owned a pump, but heard plenty of good things about the Rem 870.

S&W or Colt in 4" for a .357. Carried a Colt Trooper Mk III on duty for many years, great gun and 100% reliable.

Concur on .223 being less of an over-penetration risk than any of the above (IIRC tests were run by the FBI). Pre-ban CAR15 is the only way to go for a "house gun" in my book. BUT MGLs make it damn near impossible to LEGALLY maintain one at the ready in your house.

 

[drgrant]

Shooting the 12 gauge made me consider possibly utilizing a smaller gauge shotgun or at the very least, a lighter load for home defense. I imagine these other options could be just as effective in a home defense situation, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

There is no such thing as "overkill" when it comes to trying to stop a person
who is coming to kill/injure you. (just my opinion.... )

Granted, if one cannot use or fire the gun relatively accurately due to
fear of recoil, then it's obviously unsuitable. Hits with anything
is greater than a miss from whatever is "optimal.".

One other thing is, you don't -HAVE- to use 00 magnum buck in your
shotgun. I actually keep Winchester Ranger low recoil slugs in
mine. The recoil is not nearly as stout as any magnum load, but it is still
adequate enough to do the job, and I can still send all 5 shells out the
tube pretty quickly, if needed.

-Mike

 

[Shane]

Yeah recoil and accuracy are issues for me, partly due to cross dominance and wanting to shoot it lefty, which I don't trust I can do safely, so I throw it up on my right shoulder and I just aim it a safe direction I can't hit targets and what not, not even close.

Dwarven told me about some thing called a Compstock they sound like a pretty good idea for recoil reduction