Sub2000, anybody got one? Reliability over time?

[40 Creedmoor fan]

I ran 300 rounds thru it without a hitch and dialed it in. Best I could do was just a little under an inch at 25 yards with the optic. I'm sure some of you NES snipers would laugh at 4 MOA but it's fine for me. Like someone said, I know what this is and what this gun isn't.

300!? That's not even a break-in amount! I bet you won't get it past 2-3000 before it breaks down or blows up on ya.

Not bad for something laptop briefcase sized that still classifies as a rifle. Really nothing else like it this light and short profile on the market, concealing 'bout two mac and cheeses, before S&W copied it. I'd trust this as a superior choice for a home defense gun over a pistol, esp for my wife who sucks at shooting even more than I do.

Your wife won't know how to unfold the damn thing or flip the reddot in place('cause, you know, it folds the wrong way)

Also,

H&K SP5K is smaller than folded S2K


Also,

CMMG Dessent 10" with folding stock is smaller than Sub2K:

 

[G4Y4HK]

300!? That's not even a break-in amount! I bet you won't get it past 2-3000 before it breaks down or blows up on ya.


Your wife won't know how to unfold the damn thing or flip the reddot in place('cause, you know, it folds the wrong way)

Also,

H&K SP5K is smaller than folded S2K
View attachment 930490

Also,

CMMG Dessent 10" with folding stock is smaller than Sub2K:
View attachment 930492

As much as I love spreading my cheeks for Daddy HK, $300 occasional shooter vs $3000 HK wall hanger is a consideration. I'd pick up a Stribog A3S with the pull out brace before an HK. Hope mine doesn't blow up at the 2000 round mileage milestone as it's only a 9, not fotay. I think I'll keep this as an under bed carbine deployed with the dot already in place. No sense to have it folded at home. push safety button, shoulder, put red dot on bad guy and shoot. Maybe flip the flashlight if needed. She'll be a better shot at 25 yards with this thing vs me with a pistol running irons. I can *maybe* do as well with my VP9 + Holosun dot.

 

[T-Unit]

I get. it, but I'm looking at it from point of view of actually shooting it. A sub2000 would rot in my safe, i already have a scorp which is infinitely better. I don't think they're junk, I just think that they're very "niche useful" and unless you really need that ability to fold the gun it's not worth buying. There certainly are dumber guns somebody could buy.

Admittedly, I don't shoot mine much and that's due to it being .40, so cost is more than 9, but the comfort of shooting it isn't there; the Sub 2000 is not meant to be a plinking gun or range fun, it's meant for business and I bought it for that niche use a long time ago.

I have thought of selling it tho because I'm not into .40 PCC's anymore, the .40 doesn't seem to get the velocity boost that 9mm does from a long barrel, but I doubt I'd get anything for it because I doubt there are any interested in .40 PCC's.

Were I given the choice of any other PCC in any caliber I still don't think I would shoot them much either, but that's more likely due to me not shooting rifles as much as I do pistols. I still like having PCCs tho because when the rifle ammo runs out, I'd rather shoot pistol calibers from a rifle than a handgun.

That said, I doubt I would prefer shooting a 7 inch AK over any PCC.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Admittedly, I don't shoot mine much and that's due to it being .40, so cost is more than 9, but the comfort of shooting it isn't there; the Sub 2000 is not meant to be a plinking gun or range fun, it's meant for business and I bought it for that niche use a long time ago.

I have thought of selling it tho because I'm not into .40 PCC's anymore, the .40 doesn't seem to get the velocity boost that 9mm does from a long barrel, but I doubt I'd get anything for it because I doubt there are any interested in .40 PCC's.

Were I given the choice of any other PCC in any caliber I still don't think I would shoot them much either, but that's more likely due to me not shooting rifles as much as I do pistols. I still like having PCCs tho because when the rifle ammo runs out, I'd rather shoot pistol calibers from a rifle than a handgun.

That said, I doubt I would prefer shooting a 7 inch AK over any PCC.

Meant for business indeed. I shoot this thing left handed and don't even mind the brass bouncing off my nose if it's reliable and puts holes where the dot says it will. Next step is getting a tri lug up there and a good can to run 165 grains.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

I have thought of selling it tho because I'm not into .40 PCC's anymore, the .40 doesn't seem to get the velocity boost that 9mm does from a long barrel, but I doubt I'd get anything for it because I doubt there are any interested in .40 PCC's.

Keltek does caliber swaps for about $150. You can have a 9MM for very little cost.

 

[T-Unit]

Keltek does caliber swaps for about $150. You can have a 9MM for very little cost.

I doubt they do it for Gen 1 anymore. Being stuck with something I wasn't intending to shoot frequently is fine, but it and that shit Marlin bolt action .22 I got the same year made me consider more what rifles I do buy. Pretty much can't go wrong with any .22 LR or .22 Mag.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

I doubt they do it for Gen 1 anymore. Being stuck with something I wasn't intending to shoot frequently is fine, but it and that shit Marlin bolt action .22 I got the same year made me consider more what rifles I do buy. Pretty much can't go wrong with any .22 LR or .22 Mag.

you'll be surprised. There is no difference in barrels and bolts in Gen 1-4. the changes were in other areas that sucked more.

 

[T-Unit]

you'll be surprised. There is no difference in barrels and bolts in Gen 1-4. the changes were in other areas that sucked more.

Yeah, it was about 6 months after I got mine that KT came out with the Gen 2 and what I liked about that was all the pic rails and I assume an improved trigger. I do like the grip texture on the earlier KT's, the square block pattern they do on everything now has no traction.

I would rather just get the latest gen from KT in 9mm than send in the reliable Gen 1 I have, but there's other interesting rifles they make I'd rather spend money on and have an experience with vs an upgraded 9mm Sub 2k. The SU16's I keep having a passive interest in, but they've not been produced in years, so they're rare and pricey now used, but looking at the weight, they're only a few ounces heavier than the Sub2k's, which I just learned Kel Tec is making the Gen 3 in 5.7.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

Yeah, it was about 6 months after I got mine that KT came out with the Gen 2 and what I liked about that was all the pic rails and I assume an improved trigger. I do like the grip texture on the earlier KT's, the square block pattern they do on everything now has no traction.

I would rather just get the latest gen from KT in 9mm than send in the reliable Gen 1 I have, but there's other interesting rifles they make I'd rather spend money on and have an experience with vs an upgraded 9mm Sub 2k. The SU16's I keep having a passive interest in, but they've not been produced in years, so they're rare and pricey now used, but looking at the weight, they're only a few ounces heavier than the Sub2k's, which I just learned Kel Tec is making the Gen 3 in 5.7.

If you want something light, reliable, and smooth, get the CMMG Dissent: you won't regret it!

 

[G4Y4HK]

If you want something light, reliable, and smooth, get the CMMG Dissent: you won't regret it!

Better than the bog?

 

[T-Unit]

If you want something light, reliable, and smooth, get the CMMG Dissent: you won't regret it!

I don't have a need for a 9mm PCC because I have an AR I built that uses a Stern Defense mag adapter that uses super sexy Glock mags. I just think if I could go back in time I should have gotten the 9mm Sub 2000 instead.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

I don't have a need for a 9mm PCC because I have an AR I built that uses a Stern Defense mag adapter that uses super sexy Glock mags. I just think if I could go back in time I should have gotten the 9mm Sub 2000 instead.

If you have an AR, you don't need to get the full rifle: just the upper. You will feel the difference immediately.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

Better than the bog?

I don't know. I have not had an opportunity to shoot a Stribog. It sounds interesting.

 

[dcmdon]

Years ago I used to shoot in a local weekly sub gun practical shooting competition.

All I had was my Sub2000. After a while I realized that the front sight was canted, so I called the factory.

I spoke to a great guy who said he'd email me a shipping label. We were talking and I asked if they could rush it because I was using it in a local PCC league.

I told him I like embarrassing some of the guys with MP5s and high end ARs.

Ooooh. He said. " Can I tune it up for you. We can get the trigger right down to the lower end of our specification if you want".

I agreed and a week later I had my gun back. Everything was slicker. Everything was smoother than factory. I basically had a blueprinted S2k

I rant that gun for 2 or 3 years in that group, every 2 weeks it ate roughly 100 of my reloads.
That's 7500 rounds without a hiccup.

I sold the gun in the 2013 panic after sandy hook for a ridiculous amount of money and bought a Gen 2 a few years ago. I don't like it as much. As a lefty, it blows much more crap back in my face.

 

[Broc Tuah]

Askign for a friend ... is it Ethical to hunt deer with a Sub2000?

 

[G4Y4HK]

Askign for a friend ... is it Ethical to hunt deer with a Sub2000?

If you're a really good shot and you can get it in the eyeball, you can take down a polar bear with this thing.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

Askign for a friend ... is it Ethical to hunt deer with a Sub2000?

I took down an elephant with Sub2K while hunting for sharks in the Alaskan desert. Modern 9mm is so powerful, it split that tiger in half.

 

[Yotacrawler]

Did it blow the lung out of the Elephant’s body?

 

[Broc Tuah]

I took down an elephant with Sub2K while hunting for sharks in the Alaskan desert. Modern 9mm is so powerful, it split that tiger in half.

I have heard it is more ethical than 260

 

[dcmdon]

If you're a really good shot and you can get it in the eyeball, you can take down a polar bear with this thing.

I had a friend who used kill nuisance deer in his yard in suburbia with head shots from a .22. He'd shoot from a 2nd floor window so that if the round missed, it would go right into the ground. You can kill almost anything with a .22 if you hit it in the right place.

 

[T-Unit]

Askign for a friend ... is it Ethical to hunt deer with a Sub2000?

Black powder .32-20 was not uncommonly used for deer hunting, so I don't see how modern 9mm with a good hollow point wouldn't work, just it has to be a shot taken at 50 yards, maybe 75 max.

I can see why .45 ACP carbines are desirable as the max range would remain the same, but the effect on deer would be far superior with .45

 

[dcmdon]

Black powder .32-20 was not uncommonly used for deer hunting, so I don't see how modern 9mm with a good hollow point wouldn't work, just it has to be a shot taken at 50 yards, maybe 75 max.

I can see why .45 ACP carbines are desirable as the max range would remain the same, but the effect on deer would be far superior with .45

It would work just fine. You would need to pick your shots, just like you do if you are hunting with a bow. With the right hard cast bullet it would penetrate more than enough. Shoot, a hoillowpoint that leans towards penetration would be fine.

Finally, a hot 9mm out of a 16 in barrel is effectively a .357 magnum. People have been taking deer with the .357 magnum since it came out.

Like I said above, I had a friend who humanely and ethically (but illegally)took deer with just a .22 to the head. None ever ran, they dropped where they stood.

 

[G4Y4HK]

It would work just fine. You would need to pick your shots, just like you do if you are hunting with a bow. With the right hard cast bullet it would penetrate more than enough. Shoot, a hoillowpoint that leans towards penetration would be fine.

Finally, a hot 9mm out of a 16 in barrel is effectively a .357 magnum. People have been taking deer with the .357 magnum since it came out.

Like I said above, I had a friend who humanely and ethically (but illegally)took deer with just a .22 to the head. None ever ran, they dropped where they stood.

9mm drops quite a bit at just 100 yards tho doesn't it? Like 4-5 inches assuming a typical 15-25 yard zero. Would be a pretty impressive holdover shot kill at range.

 

[dcmdon]

9mm drops quite a bit at just 100 yards tho doesn't it? Like 4-5 inches assuming a typical 15-25 yard zero. Would be a pretty impressive holdover shot kill at range.

Key words. PICK YOUR SHOTS.

Based on a few minutes playing with JBM ballistics, I would consider a shot out to 100 yards with a 9mm. With an 80 yard zero you could hold point blank on a deer sized target out to about 95 yards. Notice that within 20 and 90 yards, the point of impact does not deviate from the point of aim by more than ONE INCH. That is more than good enough.

If you have accurate range data and a good dope, you could go much farther.

Finally, if you reload, you can use internal ballistics software and slower burning powder like H110 to build a rifle optimized 9mm that I would make an experienced guess could reach 1600 fps with a 125 gr bullet from a 16" barrel.