Stuck with an FID? You might be a federally prohibited person

Also another point I'm wondering about (all my questions are only for education purposes and I will always disclose my disqualification no matter what and never put myself in a situation that will turn against me).

According to the FBI Massachusetts is not a a POC and FBI is primary POC for all NICS background check and FFL will contact the NICS Call Centers for all firearm transfers. The FBI conducts the NICS check and determines whether or not the transfer would violate state or federal law.


1) does the record maintained by NICS are cross matched to Massachusetts CORI ?

When I ordered my CORI it does not show the OUI ( case has been sealed as per MGL but I'm well aware that it can be viewed by Police and other LEO and the firearms board) and I do have certified copy of the disposition from the court and just need to get a copy of the original arrest report to be added to all the paperworks .

2)I had done an FBI Identification Record request ( had my fingerprints taken by Local PD) and I sent them the prints and the form + 18$ and got a " No record" response ( Wondering if Massachusetts CORI does not list or share first time OUI to the FBI Database which is weird since DWI in MA is a PP by feds due to the 2.5 yrs maximum sentence).

3) Not sure if there is a Way to Submit a FOIA for a NICS request
 
My only concern is about getting recommendation Letter.
I don't really know anyone and not sure if that is really required by the FRLB or will they look at your overall morale character ( Employment history and been a law biding citizen and such)

I successfully petitioned the FLRB for restoration last year. IANAL, but I strongly advise that you submit at least 2 well written letters of reccomendation and that you bring a character witness to your hearing, particularly if you plan to go through the process without an attorney. Expect to answer some difficult questions in quick succession at your hearing. Because of the nature of my work I am generally pretty comfortable in that type of setting, and regardless, I was damn glad I had a skilled attorney sitting next to me. If you have any questions about what you can expect from the process feel free to PM me.
 
I was quoted $3000 by a Lawyer during a phone consult .
Would it make more sense to just have the lawyer at the hearing and maybe it will be a bit more affordable ( i will gather all the paperworks and fill all the forms that are needed)

I successfully petitioned the FLRB for restoration last year. IANAL, but I strongly advise that you submit at least 2 well written letters of reccomendation and that you bring a character witness to your hearing, particularly if you plan to go through the process without an attorney. Expect to answer some difficult questions in quick succession at your hearing. Because of the nature of my work I am generally pretty comfortable in that type of setting, and regardless, I was damn glad I had a skilled attorney sitting next to me. If you have any questions about what you can expect from the process feel free to PM me.
 
I was quoted $3000 by a Lawyer during a phone consult .
Would it make more sense to just have the lawyer at the hearing and maybe it will be a bit more affordable ( i will gather all the paperworks and fill all the forms that are needed)

There isn't a whole lot of paperwork preperation to deal with and that's not really what you're paying for. You are essentially paying for legal advice and representation at the hearing. That being said, I paid substantially less than $3000, although I don't know how the circumstances of your case would impact the cost for you.
 
Once you got the favorable decision from the FRLB Where u able to get an LTC or Just an FID?? Did your Local PD give you a hard time or was it straight easy?

There isn't a whole lot of paperwork preperation to deal with and that's not really what you're paying for. You are essentially paying for legal advice and representation at the hearing. That being said, I paid substantially less than $3000, although I don't know how the circumstances of your case would impact the cost for you.
 
Wondering about the wording of 18 U.S.C. § 922. ( I highlighted the passage in question)

In Mass I have heard that people with previous Misdemeanor have been selected for jury and been on Jury and the only disqualification for serving in a jury is (1) Convicted of a felony within the past 7 years, or (2) currently charged with a felony, or (3) currently in custody.
(If you are unsure if the crime involved is a felony, check with the court where the charges were filed.)

So will it mean that someone who was selected and was on a jury with a previous misdemeanor ( for argument let's use a first time OUI) Would it mean that " Civil right" have been restored as per 18 U.S.C. § 922?


EXCEPTION 1: A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime,
for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not
prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the
law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction
has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to
vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2) the person is not
prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessi
ng
firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12c or 12i, as
applicable. A person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic
violence also is not covered by the prohibition unless: (1) the person was
represented by a lawyer or gave up the right to a lawyer; and (2) if the person
was entitled to a jury, was tried by a jury or gave up the right to a jury trial. Persons
subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12i.
 
That's like saying that if you pass NICS you must not be a prohibited person. [rofl] Just because the state let you do something, doesn't mean that your rights were restored. All that means is that the state was too dumb to detect that you were disqualified.

-Mike
 
I bet you that there are hundred or thousand of people who passed NICS and are prohibited and got away with it and own rifle or handgun and shoot or go to the range and have no been bothered because they stayed Low key WIth that said. I'm not that stupid to risk that as I have seen the sentencing guidelines from the Feds and no gun or rifle is worth that.
I guess in the long run of things there are worse thing in life then been a " prohibited person" and I can live with that.

That's like saying that if you pass NICS you must not be a prohibited person. [rofl] Just because the state let you do something, doesn't mean that your rights were restored. All that means is that the state was too dumb to detect that you were disqualified.

-Mike
 
I bet you that there are hundred or thousand of people who passed NICS and are prohibited and got away with it and own rifle or handgun and shoot or go to the range and have no been bothered because they stayed Low key WIth that said.
And if they get caught it is 10 years in federal prison.
 
Don't give up hope. If you get a FLRB restoration, you will NOT be prosecuted by the Feds. That is the word from a meeting between EOPS and BATFE.

Whether the Feds do or don't clear someone on NICS is another story and some court cases are likely to result in some changes within a couple of years.

Best advice is to go for your LTC, file with FLRB, get your rights restored and get your LTC. At that point you will NOT be a PP and can buy privately without any hassle. You might be able to buy thru dealers, but that is a question that you'll only learn the answer to when you try it.

Good luck.
 
2)I had done an FBI Identification Record request ( had my fingerprints taken by Local PD) and I sent them the prints and the form + 18$ and got a " No record" response ( Wondering if Massachusetts CORI does not list or share first time OUI to the FBI Database which is weird since DWI in MA is a PP by feds due to the 2.5 yrs maximum sentence).

The short answer is that it's very complicated.

I was quoted $3000 by a Lawyer during a phone consult .
Would it make more sense to just have the lawyer at the hearing and maybe it will be a bit more affordable ( i will gather all the paperworks and fill all the forms that are needed)

Unfortunately you need to put a dollar figure on the value of your legal access to firearms. If you want guns for a hobby, it may not be worth it to you to shell out money for a lawyer. I've never gone through the FLRB process, but from what I can see there's a lot of knowledgable people posting in this thread.

So will it mean that someone who was selected and was on a jury with a previous misdemeanor ( for argument let's use a first time OUI) Would it mean that " Civil right" have been restored as per 18 U.S.C. § 922?

No, not even slightly. There's a bunch of caselaw on it from the fed courts, and none of the cases cut such a broad path.

I bet you that there are hundred or thousand of people who passed NICS and are prohibited and got away with it and own rifle or handgun and shoot or go to the range and have no been bothered because they stayed Low key WIth that said. I'm not that stupid to risk that as I have seen the sentencing guidelines from the Feds and no gun or rifle is worth that.

That's a good idea, because even a very slight contact with law enforcement can open doors you never would have imagined. There's caselaw on that too.
 
First time post on this forum but long time reader..

I got a FID card about 6 months ago and I have a felony on my record from about 10 years ago, the PD never mentioned to me that I was federally prohibted which seems unbelievable to me. I only found out when I tried to purchase a gun from a dealer.

I decided to look into this because this is a interesting subject and from what I have read on court cases and Mass Law it makes no sense either way. Bascially the feds will allow you to have guns again if you where pardoned, expunged or had civil rights restored but won't allow a partiall restoration of rights (rifles or shotguns only) its all or nothing. Here in Mass you do lose certain civil rights after being convicted of felonies and those rights are restored later down that road so that does qualify as restoration of civil rights but since the courts have said it all or nothing the feds dont allow it. So if you do have your rights restored for guns though the FLRB it really still makes you a federally prohibted person since you never lost any civil rights since it was a misdemanor and civil rights aren't lost for those types of crimes.. For the ATF to say it will not prosecute any one who had there rights restored though the FLRB wouldn't be correct since it still doesn't qualify under federal law as a restoration, they would have to do the same for the FID card holders with felonies since Mass allows them to have rifles or shotguns. It does really matter any way if the ATF is saying they won't prosecute because there are plenty of other Federally agiencies that could!
 
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First time post on this forum but long time reader..

My buddy actually got a FID card about 6 months ago and he has a felony on his record, the PD never mentioned to him that he was federally prohibted which seems unbelievable to me. He only found out when he tried to purchase a gun from a dealer.

I decided to look into this because this is a interesting subject and from what I have read on court cases and Mass Law it makes no sense either way. Bascially the feds will allow you to have guns again if you where pardoned, expunged or had civil rights restored but won't allow a partiall restoration of rights (rifles or shotguns only) its all or nothing. Here in Mass you do lose certain civil rights after being convicted of felonies and those rights are restored later down that road so that does qualify as restoration of civil rights but since the courts have said it all or nothing the feds dont allow it. So if you do have your rights restored for guns though the FLRB it really still makes you a federally prohibted person since you never lost any civil rights since it was a misdemanor and civil rights aren't lost for those types of crimes.. For the ATF to say it will not prosecute any one who had there rights restored though the FLRB wouldn't be correct since it still doesn't qualify under federal law as a restoration, they would have to do the same for the FID card holders with felonies since Mass allows them to have rifles or shotguns. It does really matter any way if the ATF is saying they won't prosecute because there are plenty of other Federally agiencies that could!

Contact us at Comm2A. We want to discuss with your friend his situation. You can email us the details. [email protected].
 
Arizona allows people with felony records to petition to have there firearms restored within the state. But they wont do it with misd'ers and the reason why is because of the wording in the federal laws and that is because one condition is you need to have your basic civil rights restored(sit on a jury,vote and hold office) and if those rights were never taken away you can't get them back. When they put this law in place they consulted with the ATF on it. So in Arizona if you gets your rights restored your not a PP under federal law. In MA it basically is the same situation but your still a PP under federal law since the FLRB is restoring misd convications. A fairly simple fix would be to take away some of those rights while your doing your time for a misd.
 
At a recent gun show I spoke to 5 different Massachusetts Environmental Police Officers with regard to the Federally prohibited person with FID card. I asked what happens when they come across a hunter and a run a bop showing a Federal disqualifying offense. FYI 4 of them said they couldn't care less about the Federal issue. 1 said he would snap him up and hold him till the Feds arrived.
 
Arizona allows people with felony records to petition to have there firearms restored within the state. But they wont do it with misd'ers and the reason why is because of the wording in the federal laws and that is because one condition is you need to have your basic civil rights restored(sit on a jury,vote and hold office) and if those rights were never taken away you can't get them back. When they put this law in place they consulted with the ATF on it. So in Arizona if you gets your rights restored your not a PP under federal law. In MA it basically is the same situation but your still a PP under federal law since the FLRB is restoring misd convications. A fairly simple fix would be to take away some of those rights while your doing your time for a misd.

The "civil rights not lost" position is the one used by the feds to justify the refusal to recognize a CA restoration of firearms rights for someone with a domestic violence conviction (CA has a procedure for such restoration). It is unfortunate that one of the test cases is in regards to the boogeyman of d.v. when there are plenty of MA misdafelonies that offer far more sympathetic plaintiffs.

At present, this is simply the BATF interpretation of the law, as it is not yet been fully adjudicated. Hopefully, it will be corrected by the federal courts. One could argue that in the post-Heller world, firearms ownership is a civil right and, as such, FLRB relief is indeed "restoration of civil rights".
 
The "civil rights not lost" position is the one used by the feds to justify the refusal to recognize a CA restoration of firearms rights for someone with a domestic violence conviction (CA has a procedure for such restoration). It is unfortunate that one of the test cases is in regards to the boogeyman of d.v. when there are plenty of MA misdafelonies that offer far more sympathetic plaintiffs.

At present, this is simply the BATF interpretation of the law, as it is not yet been fully adjudicated. Hopefully, it will be corrected by the federal courts. One could argue that in the post-Heller world, firearms ownership is a civil right and, as such, FLRB relief is indeed "restoration of civil rights".

What would it take for the part in red to happen?

How is that "Hope and Change" working now?
 
I'm not even sure if I should bother applying for my LTC after reading this. I got a simple assault like 7 years ago when I was teen waiting on my juvi records to come back and see though.
 
This is the problem with voting. You are consenting to idiots getting you in trouble for contradicting themselves. And because you voted, they rightly hold you to blame while seeking their higher selves to cur you of their confusion. Which couldn't have existed without your consent! But on the upside theyare at least being compensated for the tortures that they endure because of you, by using their positions to sell out to the pharmaceutical and insurance companies. Better thank your lucky stars for them, as without your leaders and left to your own devices, you'd really be screwed! 🤣😉
 
The "civil rights not lost" position is the one used by the feds to justify the refusal to recognize a CA restoration of firearms rights for someone with a domestic violence conviction (CA has a procedure for such restoration). It is unfortunate that one of the test cases is in regards to the boogeyman of d.v. when there are plenty of MA misdafelonies that offer far more sympathetic plaintiffs.

At present, this is simply the BATF interpretation of the law, as it is not yet been fully adjudicated. Hopefully, it will be corrected by the federal courts. One could argue that in the post-Heller world, firearms ownership is a civil right and, as such, FLRB relief is indeed "restoration of civil rights".

I know a shit ton of the laws are garbage, and a ton of good men get done for "domestic violence", but a genuine shit bag who beats on a woman and threatens her with her life while keeping her drugged up (and there are plenty of them), belongs nowhere near a gun. And unfortunately as bad as it is that we have thousands of good people who are barred from ownership, it's even worse that we have tons of shit bags who are allowed full access, and that is because they make the women take all their risks and truly abused women rarely leave.
 
There's a lot going on in this thread but maybe try FID card and black powder route at least for now? IANAL so what do I know...
On the one hand, one of the bones the state threw us during one of the last
rewrites of gun laws was that FIDs became pseudo-shall-issue
(in some manner I can't describe from memory).

On the other hand, Len wrote on 11-Oct'15:
... as of 1/1/15. Any statutory DQ for LTC stands for FID as well now and is lifetime.
Yet Falmouth still to this day acts as if they grant FIDs (at least) to FPPs.

Q1: So, in 2020 does a modern Mass DUI prevent the issuance of an FID, or can a black-powder/pepper spray FID still be issued?

Q2: Same question, for an LTC instead of an FID?

Q3: Does the pseudo-shall-issue nature of Mass FID mean that
the trajectory for someone with a modern Mass DUI conviction is this:
  1. Apply for FID.
  2. FID granted. (Maybe with a Falmouth warning letter not to stray outside of pepper spray and black powder).
Or is it possibly this:
  1. Apply for FID.
  2. FID application denied.
  3. Appeal the denial to court.
  4. FID granted on appeal. (Maybe with a Falmouth warning letter not to stray outside of pepper spray and black powder).
Because if the trajectory is the latter,
then applying for an FID just to flex your rights
means that even if you do get the Mass DUI broomed in court,
you're risking forever after having to answer "Yes"
to the question "Have you ever been denied a firearms license?"
when applying for a license in some other jurisdiction.

And NES Wisdom is that it's a bad idea to get a case of
"I've Been Denied Herpes".
 
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On the one hand, one of the bones the state threw us during one of the last
rewrites of gun laws was that FIDs became pseudo-shall-issue
(in some manner I can't describe from memory).
The chief is now required to get an virtually always issued, nearly a rubber stamp, court approval of an FID denial.
 
I can’t believe I’ve been threw every part of all this legal writing and have come out on top ! I think I was literally the last case the flrb held ! J G !
 
I can’t believe I’ve been threw every part of all this legal writing and have come out on top ! I think I was literally the last case the flrb held ! J G !
The feds will NOT remove your prohibited status from NICS as they do not recognize MA FLRB relief because it did not restore your right to vote, hold office or serve on a jury. The fact that you never lost these rights is irrelevant - the fed position is that 2A rights are not "civil" in nature so FLRB relief is not a restoration of civil rights.,

If you know of someone with FLRB relive who never possessed any sort of rifle, shotgun or ammo after their disqualifying conviction that FLRB granted relief to,, let Comm2A know. If you continued to possess guns and/or ammo after the conviction, we can't use you as a plaintiff because you would be at legal risk if we lost and the feds decided to prosecute you as a felon in possession.
 
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