Stripped Lower Storage Requirements

ITS NOT A FIREARM PER MA LAW!!!!!!!!!
Nobody in this thread is arguing that a lower receiver is a firearm per MA law. Screaming that it's not a firearm isn't going to help anyone when they get a cop who is as ignorant about laws as most of them are looking at it saying "hey, that's a gun part. Gun parts have to be locked up. You're under arrest." That would be followed shortly by the local DA deciding to prosecute because GUN. You would then get to go to court where you can scream at the judge about how it isn't a firearm. You'd probably get off, but who has the time and money to play around in the court system? Just lock the stupid thing up.
 
Nobody in this thread is arguing that a lower receiver is a firearm per MA law. Screaming that it's not a firearm isn't going to help anyone when they get a cop who is as ignorant about laws as most of them are looking at it saying "hey, that's a gun part. Gun parts have to be locked up. You're under arrest." That would be followed shortly by the local DA deciding to prosecute because GUN. You would then get to go to court where you can scream at the judge about how it isn't a firearm. You'd probably get off, but who has the time and money to play around in the court system? Just lock the stupid thing up.

You can live your life worrying about an ignorant cop. I guess I don't do that.

I don't use gun locks. i don't lock my gun cases, because I don't have to.

I do have substantial safes and do lock lowers in the safe because of my own ethical standards, but not because a MA LEO might not understand the law.

If you are so so worried about an ignorant cop, then you should not own:

1) ARs or AKs of any kind
2) pre ban rifles with evil features
3) pre-ban standard capacity mags

Because all of this falls into the same category of extreme caution by a MA resident because they are worried about an ignorant cop arresting them.

To each his own.

Don
 
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Yes, I know. But I don't trust the police, district attorney, and court system to either understand that or follow it.

Some years back, Attorney Darius Arbabi told me about one court case that he defended. His properly licensed client was carrying a semi-auto handgun with a 10-round magazine plus 1 in the chamber. He was arrested and charged with carrying an illegal large capacity magazine. The assistant district attorney's claim was that since he was carrying 10 + 1 = 11, that is more than 10 and therefore it was illegal. Seriously.

Now do you understand why I don't trust the MA judicial system to understand that a stripped lower doesn't need to be locked up?

What did the properly licensed client do that warranted a LEO counting the number of rounds in his gun? Just curious.

I ask because I'm 47. I've never had an uninvited LEO in my home. I've never been frisked. I've never been asked to have my car searched other than when I was going into logan while they were looking for Tsarnaiv. Which I refused.

I mention this because this risk that you all speak of is exceedingly low. I would venture a guess that none of you have ever had your person or vehicle searched.

So I guess its all about risk tolerance. There is no right or wrong answer. I think we can all agree on that.

Don
 
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What did the properly licensed client do that warranted a LEO counting the number of rounds in his gun? Just curious.

I ask because I'm 47. I've never had an uninvited LEO in my home. I've never been frisked. I've never been asked to have my car searched other than when I was going into logan while they were looking for Tsarnaiv. Which I refused.

I mention this because this risk that you all speak of is exceedingly low. I would venture a guess that none of you have ever had your person or vehicle searched.

So I guess its all about risk tolerance. There is no right or wrong answer. I think we can all agree on that.

Don

It is, but it's also about the effort and expense required to mitigate that risk. Throwing a lower the safe you probably already have is cheap and easy. If it saves you unwanted attention in some admittedly rare case where people you don't want in your life show up it's probably worth that minimal effort.

You're right though, being a gun owner here at all is inherently risky and you could go nuts trying to cover all the bases. Sometimes the base can't be covered at all and you just have to roll the dice or decide not to play. I don't think this is one of those cases.
 
You can live your life worrying about an ignorant cop. I guess I don't do that.

Or you can decide what is worth the risk and what isn't.

For example, you don't have to lock up a non-large capacity long gun in MA when transporting it in a car. So when transporting a bolt action rifle to the range, I could just toss it in my back seat. That is perfectly legal.

I won't do that because 1) I don't trust MA cops to understand the law to that level of detail and 2) it is cheap and easy for me to put it in a locked case. I put it in a case, put the case in the back of the SUV, and pull the privacy cover over it so no one can see it. I can easily reduce risk without much effort or expense on my part.

My view on storage of stripped lowers is the same. I already have a gun safe. So I would just toss it in the safe. Less risk for little effort.

I ask because I'm 47. I've never had an uninvited LEO in my home. I've never been frisked. I've never been asked to have my car searched other than when I was going into logan while they were looking for Tsarnaiv. Which I refused.

You never really know when things can go sideways. About 10 years ago, on a snowy winter morning, I was heading out to my car to leave for work. A car stopped on the road and the woman told me that she thought she saw flames coming out of my chimney. I didn't see anything, but I wasn't going to leave and possibly come back to a burned out house. I went back inside the house, checked attic to basement and didn't see or smell anything. But what if there was something I missed? So I called the fire non-emergency number, told them what happened and asked them if they weren't busy could they send someone by?

Well, fire departments seem to have two responses: 1) they don't come or 2) they roll everything. Five minutes later there was a ladder truck, pumper truck, command SUV and police car out front. The fire department was inside checking every room, attic, basement. And a cop came too, because that's what they do.

And if I had left a gun laying around, guess what? I could have gotten jammed up.
 
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What did the properly licensed client do that warranted a LEO counting the number of rounds in his gun? Just curious.

I don't remember why the police had a hair up their butt about the guy. But they had nothing else on the guy so they threw this against the wall to see if it would stick. This was the only charge.
 
I'm a "better safe than sorry" kind of guy. My issue with hiding stuff...especially important stuff like an AR lower as I forget where I put crap. So if it's in the safe or the ammo locker i know where it is. Anything related to firearms I make sure is only stored where I know I will be able to secure it and find it when I need or want it.

I store extra bi-pods and scopes and pistol grips gun tools and cleaning kits in either my safe or ammo locker. That way I am the only person with access to any of my stuff, it's out of the way when kids have friends over and I know exactly where everything is at all times. So it's more of a comfort thing for me.

Then I only need to worry about safe storage laws when I'm carrying, possessing or transporting a firearm.

But that's my thing. Others have their own but this is what works for me.
 
I'm a "better safe than sorry" kind of guy. My issue with hiding stuff...especially important stuff like an AR lower as I forget where I put crap. So if it's in the safe or the ammo locker i know where it is.

if only i could get my wife to do the same with her phone, keys, purse, etc...just put it in 1 or 2 places at home and you'll never lose it...i am the same way though...if i need to remember to bring something to work with me i have to put it on the floor where i am going to walk out the door so i don't forget it...i only put things in a few places as a habit so i can find things easier and not lose anything
 
if only i could get my wife to do the same with her phone, keys, purse, etc...just put it in 1 or 2 places at home and you'll never lose it...i am the same way though...if i need to remember to bring something to work with me i have to put it on the floor where i am going to walk out the door so i don't forget it...i only put things in a few places as a habit so i can find things easier and not lose anything

My wife has junk all over the house. No idea how she can find anything. A couple of places for my stuff, I stay disciplined about it and no worries. I'm the same way with my fishing gear. That stuff is not in my gun safe, but in my "fishing" cabinet with my fishing licenses....lmao....
 
JasonS - I agree with you somewhat. But I store lowers in my safe mainly because of my sense of ethics. But if I was running into storage constraints and I had a choice of storing a Nightforce scope in the safe or a lower, the scope would win.

M1911 - I do carry non large capacity gun in the passenger compartment of my car. In a soft case. Just like I did in CT, where there are no transport regulations.

RobJax - I'm guessing you are new at this. If I stored all my accessories and parts in my safe, I'd need 2 or 3 new full sized safes. Mine live in tupperware containers. I see little risk in this. Also, if you check your homeowner's policy, it typically limits the firearms indemnification. However, gun PARTS and ACCESSORIES are covered by the limits of the contents portion of the policy. Typically a couple of hundred thousand dollars. (check for yourself, don't take my word for it). So for accessories, I just document my possession of them and store them in rubbermaid containers. The exception is high dollar items like the scope referenced above. Good glass goes in the safe.

I am of the opinion that we all have a responsibility to exercise our rights to the fullest extent of the law. Thats why I don't hesitate to put my gun bag on the seat next to me if I don't have any large capacity firearms with me. And when i do, the bag goes into the trunk. No locks, no hard cases.

When i come out of the woods or blind, my gun is typically damp and cold. So it goes in the front passenger seat to dry off and warm up so it doesn't draw condensation when it comes into the house.

Don

p.s. I also keep copies of all the relevant laws in my gun bag. So far, I've only used them to enlighten people at the gun club who insist on putting trigger locks on their revolvers.
 
JasonS - I agree with you somewhat. But I store lowers in my safe mainly because of my sense of ethics. But if I was running into storage constraints and I had a choice of storing a Nightforce scope in the safe or a lower, the scope would win.

M1911 - I do carry non large capacity gun in the passenger compartment of my car. In a soft case. Just like I did in CT, where there are no transport regulations.

RobJax - I'm guessing you are new at this. If I stored all my accessories and parts in my safe, I'd need 2 or 3 new full sized safes. Mine live in tupperware containers. I see little risk in this. Also, if you check your homeowner's policy, it typically limits the firearms indemnification. However, gun PARTS and ACCESSORIES are covered by the limits of the contents portion of the policy. Typically a couple of hundred thousand dollars. (check for yourself, don't take my word for it). So for accessories, I just document my possession of them and store them in rubbermaid containers. The exception is high dollar items like the scope referenced above. Good glass goes in the safe.

I am of the opinion that we all have a responsibility to exercise our rights to the fullest extent of the law. Thats why I don't hesitate to put my gun bag on the seat next to me if I don't have any large capacity firearms with me. And when i do, the bag goes into the trunk. No locks, no hard cases.

When i come out of the woods or blind, my gun is typically damp and cold. So it goes in the front passenger seat to dry off and warm up so it doesn't draw condensation when it comes into the house.

Don

p.s. I also keep copies of all the relevant laws in my gun bag. So far, I've only used them to enlighten people at the gun club who insist on putting trigger locks on their revolvers.



No, I'm not new at this; just efficient. I don't put all my stuff in there for insurance purposes. I keep my stuff all in one place so I always know where it is. I hate running to 20 places to put my stuff together to get out the door to go to the range. When I was in the Army I learned there is always room for something else. Even though I have run out of room in my current safe for my rifles (unless I start storing some upside down) and still am in need of several more hand guns an AR lower can fit in many places in my safe without fear of getting damaged.

But like I said, everyone has differences in how they do stuff. This just works for me.
 
Robjax,

All my stuff has a very specific place. Very organized.

I just don't choose to put most of my stuff inside a $1800 metal box. Most are in $4 plastic boxes with labels on the outside.

Understood. that sounds like a good system too. Probably a better system than mine but this works for me. But you would keep the lower in your safe or in a plastic box? I would put it in my safe.
 
i have a locking plastic foot locker that i had from boy scouts when i was younger that i'd like to put some of my stuff in...the important stuff is in the safe and the non-important stuff is jammed in a closet or in my range bag right now...i need to reorganize
 
Haha, friggin trigger locks on a revolver. I went for a range orientation the other day and the ro stated that is how MA law requires his revolver to be transported.
 
Haha, friggin trigger locks on a revolver. I went for a range orientation the other day and the ro stated that is how MA law requires his revolver to be transported.

Just to be clear, trigger locks are suitable for storage but not transport.
 
Yep, but he specifically stated for transport. Puts the triggerlock on when he pulls the revolver out of his safe and puts it in his rangebag. I just shook my head
 
Understood. that sounds like a good system too. Probably a better system than mine but this works for me. But you would keep the lower in your safe or in a plastic box? I would put it in my safe.

I would put mine in my safe because I feel that i have an ethical obligation to control my firearms. From a practical perspective, its a firearm. Someone in possession of a lower can build a functional firearm without any real effort.

But again, I keep my lowers in my safe because of my own ethical values, not because I'm worried about Government.

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Haha, friggin trigger locks on a revolver. I went for a range orientation the other day and the ro stated that is how MA law requires his revolver to be transported.

He was wrong. On many levels.

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Yep, but he specifically stated for transport. Puts the triggerlock on when he pulls the revolver out of his safe and puts it in his rangebag. I just shook my head

this is what we are dealing with.

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You don't even need to put it in a soft bag. You could put it right on the seat.

I wouldn't, but it would be legal.

Yup, when I'm driving home from hunting, thats exactly what i do. Cold wet gun goes in right front passenger seat and gets heat blasted on it so it dries and so water doesn't condense on it when i bring it in the house. No bags, no locks. Only an idiot would put a wet gun in a case. Unless you are out duck hunting and need the case to protect the gun on the boat ride home. But then its really important to remove it from the case ASAP.

If its a bolt gun, the bolt is removed and placed on the seat. If its a semi-auto, tube mag fed shotgun, then the bolt is locked open.
 
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Personally, I would lock it up. Not because the letter of the law requires it but because I do not trust the police or DA to understand or follow the letter of the law.

If only we had places. Places with buildings. Places that employed teachers who knew the law. We could send the police and the DAs to places like this. And save ourselves a lot of trouble.

Wishful thinking, I know.

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I use them as paperweights around the house.

They can make great door stops too!
 
In MA the lower in itself is not a firearm nor a component. What you have according to state law is simply a chunk of metal with a convenient number on it. As long as there is no functioning upper half to pair it with in the vicinity you are fine.

There is no need to lock that up until you assemble it into a firearm. At this point you will need to file the FA10 and lock it up.

**I am not a lawyer and this is not to be construed as legal advice.**
The serial numbered lower is considered a “firearm” by ATF, that is why you have fill out ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-“80”-or-“unfinished”-receivers-illegal
 
The serial numbered lower is considered a “firearm” by ATF, that is why you have fill out ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-“80”-or-“unfinished”-receivers-illegal

That's correct. A "lower" is currently considered by ATF to be a firearm. BUT the discussion above is about Massachusetts law - and a lower is NOT considered to be a firearm by Massachusetts law.

FWIW, "serial numbered" has nothing to do with it. I have at least one unserialized lower.
 
The serial numbered lower is considered a “firearm” by ATF, that is why you have fill out ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-“80”-or-“unfinished”-receivers-illegal
Whenever talking about legalities, like Allen said above, you need to consider whether you are dealing with Fed or State law.

A lower/frame/receiver is a firearm per fed law. But Fed law does not have any storage requirements.

A lower/frame/receiver is NOT. a firearm per MA law. This has HUGE implications.

1) No license, FID or LTC required to buy or possess one. Though most dealers won't sell it to you.
2) No storage requirements.
3) No transport requirements.
4) No age requirements over and above Fed law.
5) No documentation requirements for secondary sales. (sales between "unlicensed" individuals. Which means non-FFLs.). A transaction can be as simple as the buyer hands seller cash. Seller hands buyer receiver.
6) No eFA10

In short, a pack of cigarettes has more MA regulations around it than a stripped lower.
 
The serial numbered lower is considered a “firearm” by ATF, that is why you have fill out ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-“80”-or-“unfinished”-receivers-illegal


Congrats. Not germane to my post however. The ATF has no regulations governing the storage of lowers. See what Don wrote above.
 
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I can’t believe nobody on this necrothread has pointed out the Massachusetts distinction between “firearm” (which means working handgun, SBR, SBS, or AOW), rifle (functional rifle), and shotgun (functional shotgun)
 
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