• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Straw Purchase??? Me buying a gun, not for me... 4 scenarios

I would think the only one in a gray area is #1. If an FLL is involved, I can't see how it can be a straw purchase seeing as the background check would still be occurring for the owner of the gun.

I also think #1 is hard to prove.
 
For the record none of those were straw purchases. It's a straw purchase if you buy a gun with the intent to sell or give it to someone who cannot legally buy a gun themselves. if your buyer has a valid legal LTC, then there is no straw purchase.
 
If there’s even a hint of the transaction smelling like a straw purchase, I’d bail and keep the gun or be nowhere near the transaction. In the People’s Republik, you’re just begging for a CLEO/DA/AG to make an example out of you. Not to mention what the end user’s intent is or why they can’t purchase the gun directly.

Well, that’s my perspective anyway.
 
Last edited:
Scenario #5:

You want to buy a gun from a friend to sell to a dealer who wants to sell it back to your friend for the same price you sold it to him for which is less than you bought it from your friend for but equally to the amount you bought a different gun from a different friend for of which you had already sold to the first friend for at the difference of the price of the first gun sale from your friend and then to the dealer. In this scenario, is it legal and who, if anyone, made a profit?
 
Reptile said:
1. If I know a guy selling a gun, can I buy it with the intention of flipping it to another guy who I know wants it? On eFA10. Can I do this 4 times a year?

2. If I know a guy selling a gun, can I buy it with the intention of flipping it to a FFL? Can this be done 4 times a year?

3. If a FFL knows a guy who has a friend selling a gun, can the FFL give the guy the money with the intent of the guy to buy the friends gun AND then sell it to the FFL? (Guy acting as middleman between original owner and FFL)

4. If a FFL sees a gun on the classifieds and buys it with the intent to sell to a known customer who wants that sort of gun?

The state seems to be cracking down on all maters of gun sales and is stretching the intent of straw purchase laws - if not the letter of the law.

It seems to me that when a FFL is involved, it is less of a straw purchase.

What say the hive?
Click to expand...
I'm assuming by FFL you mean dealer not C&R

1. My first thought was this is a no, but as I thought about it I realised all the straw purchase stuff I heard and read always was through an FFL and included a 4473 where you have to state that you are buying for yourself. With no FFL an no 4473 is this just 2 FtF transactions? And the intent doesn't matter because there was no 4473? I suppose, if you did this often enough the ATF might call you an unlicensed dealer. So, like so many gun laws, it's not clear. I don't think I'd take the chance in MA, too much tracking going on, up hear in NH it probably happens all the time.
2. same and number 1
3. How the FFL gets the money to the seller is relevant, have the seller ship it directly to the the FFL.
4. isn't this what they do, or at least hope to do.

To me it seems a straw purchase is when a person buys a gun from an FFL with the intent to sell it to another, FFL or private party doesn't matter because you've stated it was for your own use. With the possible exception of gifting it to a family member.
 
jayhitek said:
For the record none of those were straw purchases. It's a straw purchase if you buy a gun with the intent to sell or give it to someone who cannot legally buy a gun themselves. if your buyer has a valid legal LTC, then there is no straw purchase.
Click to expand...
That is incorrect. Whether or not the person you intend to sell/give it to can legally purchase it is irrelevant, the intent to buy a gun not for yourself on a 4473 is the crime. Read what you are signing!
 
Yawn...I was under the impression that a straw purchase meant buying for someone who could not legally buy on their own. Am I wrong? what if I only want it for myself for a few minutes and then legally transfer to another person?
 
556USER said:
Yawn...I was under the impression that a straw purchase meant buying for someone who could not legally buy on their own. Am I wrong? what if I only want it for myself for a few minutes and then legally transfer to another person?
Click to expand...
We have had this discussion many times. I remember a NES member (one of the ones that is good with laws) telling me I couldn't even buy a gun for a licensed persons birthday. I would have to go with that person to the shop, I could pay for it, but that person should buy it.

I also thought a straw purchase was buying for someone that couldn't legally own a gun.

I just play it safe and buy guns for myself.
 
Last edited:
Add this to the "OP is going to jail" list.

www.northeastshooters.com

Avoiding The Solvent Trap Trap - legally owning one to keep for a rainy day

I see adds for solvent traps in my emails every day. "This is totally legal to own, but if you make a hole in it, you must file a NFA Form." I hear the law is tracking down people who buy these and arresting them. Can a person be charged if they keep the "solvent trap" as is - without and...
www.northeastshooters.com www.northeastshooters.com
 
How about I buy myself a gun and a short time later, IDK could be ten minutes, 10 hours or 10 days, I decide I hate it, then I GIVE it to my buddy who is broke AND is properly licensed and we do a FA10. Just how does this work?
 
Bonesinium said:
Scenario #5:

You want to buy a gun from a friend to sell to a dealer who wants to sell it back to your friend for the same price you sold it to him for which is less than you bought it from your friend for but equally to the amount you bought a different gun from a different friend for of which you had already sold to the first friend for at the difference of the price of the first gun sale from your friend and then to the dealer. In this scenario, is it legal and who, if anyone, made a profit?
Click to expand...
ATF guidance.


Bonesinium said:
Autoerotic asphyxiation right in with this thread.
Click to expand...
hqdefault.jpg
 
I like to see what is in the bounds of the law.

I don't do any off this stuff but enjoy the discussion of the legalities.

The solvent trap thread was educational.

The DD214 / Glock deal thread was educational.

Constructive intent threads are educational.

81% lower threads are educational.

This thread was educational.

So many people get jacked up over technicalities.

I for one have bent over backwards to satisfy the intent and the letter of the law.
At great monetary expense! (credit card debts have lowered my credit rating - but I enjoy 0% interest)

Nobody going to jail for having a discussion.

We are all legal scholars here and debate is healthy and intellectual.
 
556USER said:
How about I buy myself a gun and a short time later, IDK could be ten minutes, 10 hours or 10 days, I decide I hate it, then I GIVE it to my buddy who is broke AND is properly licensed and we do a FA10. Just how does this work?
Click to expand...
The back of the 4473 says that a bona fide gift where NO money changes hands is good to go'

It would appear that buying a gun as a Xmas gift is good to go....
 
556USER said:
How about I buy myself a gun and a short time later, IDK could be ten minutes, 10 hours or 10 days, I decide I hate it, then I GIVE it to my buddy who is broke AND is properly licensed and we do a FA10. Just how does this work?
Click to expand...
The whole thing is about your intent when you buy it. That's why there are so few prosecutions, it's hard to prove intent when you can change your mind literally right after buying it. As you walk to the door of the gun shop you realise you should not have spent that money, so you decide to sell it. You intended to keep it when you bought it, but you changed your mind.
I'm not good at remembering case names, but the two I recall were one where the buyer actually took a check from the person he was buying for before buying the gun and the memo was something like for gun. The other was a guy who basically told everyone who would listen that the gun wasn't for himself, including the dealer, just plain stupid.
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
The question is ... how long do you have to own the gun before you can sell it to a licensed friend and not be considered a straw purchase?
1 week?
1 month?
1 year?
...
Click to expand...
Hmmm how about "I intended to keep it, but then my buddy offered me more than I paid for it on the way out the door of the gun shop"? That's when you changed your "intent". But I wouldn't try that too often, it would be tough to get a conviction if it happened once, but 10 times in a month will sound a bit different to the jury.
 

Similar threads

Show me your latest purchase
Replies
11
Views
436
AmeriKHAN
A
  • Poll
Help me decide
2 3
Replies
73
Views
1K
Supermoto
Supermoto
Neighbor Died widow gave me his guns
2
Replies
59
Views
2K
MisterHappy
MisterHappy
Help me ID this bit of ammo
Replies
10
Views
375
straightshooterjake
S
Cocked hammers scare me
2 3 4
Replies
119
Views
3K
CMEBoston
CMEBoston
Back
Top Bottom