Stop the Paramilitary Police Raids Now!!!

J

JellyFish

http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/balko_whitepaper_2006.pdf

PLEASE READ THE LINK ABOVE

Some people seem woefully unaware of this issue and the dangers these raids present. In our zeal for "winning the war on drugs" we've allowed cops to go WAY over the line with these kinds of raids and they need to be stopped.

People should never have to worry that they will be killed, injured or terrified by police in their own home. America was never meant to be a police state.

Stop these raids now! [angry]
 
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I heard today a 90 year old lady was shot and killed in a raid, wrong house? I heard the cops were in plain clothes, if they busted in un announced I would have opened fire too.
 
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Pilgrim said:
Why does a cop need a 'ski mask' to cover his face ?
Click to expand...

I actually think it has a couple of purposes although these are just a guess. Identity protection and stealth. Some SWAT members I know are also fulltime duty LEOs so if they are seen on the streets everyday or in their hometown on personal time they may become targets of retaliation.
 
Supposedly they announced before entry, etc.... maybe the
lady is hard of hearing and only heard mumbling and then her door
getting smashed down.

I don't really see the point of these raids either. Yeah, I realize
that drugs are a big problem, etc, but this is a rather costly
mistake. Even if the lady wasnt armed, what if she had a bad
ticker and these guys bashing in essentially gave her a heart
attack?

Now it's the "war on drugs" and in some places its the "war on guns" and
I'm sure that will get expanded eventually. It appears almost every
time the government manages to ban something the enforcement of
that ban ends up causing as much, or maybe more damage than whatever
it is they're trying to prevent. I mean lets think about it here- joe
coke user isnt going to stop using coke because the local dealer got
busted... he's going to find another one. Banning drugs and contraband
is a hopless enterprise if theres a critical mass of people that want whatever
it is that you're trying to ban. Such bans will always fail outside of
possibly having a complete police state.


-Mike
 
Vin Suprynowicz has written about this kind of stuff for a while - if you want a good read get Send in the Waco Killers:

http://www.amazon.com/Send-Waco-Killers-Movement-1993-1998/dp/0967025907

Suprynowicz points out that the drug war is entirely unconstitutional - if somebody wants to drug themselves then so be it is his attitude. I myself have never done any form of drugs other than over the counter stuff like Tylenol - or doctor prescribed stuff like anti-biotics and such. If you were to ask my opinion a couple of years ago I would have said I agree that law enforcement should go after these people. The more I read however - and Suprynowicz helped steer me down this path - the more I have come to the conclusion that the so called "war on drugs" is really a war by our goverment on it's citizens. The war on drugs has direct relevance on our right to bear arms - if the goverment thinks that it can throw people in jail for the simple act of getting high then it is not that far of a leap in logic to say they can toss the second amendment - and throw us all in jail for owning our previously legal guns.
 
JmasterJ said:
they may become targets of retaliation.
Click to expand...

I've heard this theory before. But why would a SWAT officer be more likely to be relatiated against then any other LEO involved in an arrest? Anyone involved in a raid that is or hopes to be undercover, that would make sense.

I understand the need for no-knock raids for some type of suspects. But I don't every see the need for plain-clothes leading the way; which was reported.

-= chuck
 
I would venture a guess that it is more of an intimidation factor,rather than trying to protect someones identity. Saw an episode on COPS, where they were doing a prostitution sting and the take-down crew were all dressed up in tactical gear, complete with body armor and masks. Talk about hammin' it up for the TV camera.[rofl]
 
The masks are Nomex, they provide some protection against burns. They also do have an intimidation factor, if they are going thru the door against armed suspects then every little bit helps.
 
You really need to read the link that Jellyfish posted - I got thru about 10 pages so far - I will have to read the rest later. The point they are making is that police in this country are being militarized. This is very similar to what all the great tyrannies down the thru the ages have done. Since the US military is prohibited from acting on US soil against US citizens they are doing the next best thing - turning the cops into a paramilitary. Use the drug war as a boogeyman and everybody thinks that it is ok. Once the goverment figures out that it can't win the drug war do you really think all these SWAT teams are going to fold up and go away? No - they will look for new targets. Who do you think the most likely target of opportunity will be? Take a wild guess - could it be previously law abiding gun owners?
 
calsdad said:
You really need to read the link that Jellyfish posted - I got thru about 10 pages so far - I will have to read the rest later. The point they are making is that police in this country are being militarized. This is very similar to what all the great tyrannies down the thru the ages have done. Since the US military is prohibited from acting on US soil against US citizens they are doing the next best thing - turning the cops into a paramilitary. Use the drug war as a boogeyman and everybody thinks that it is ok. Once the goverment figures out that it can't win the drug war do you really think all these SWAT teams are going to fold up and go away? No - they will look for new targets. Who do you think the most likely target of opportunity will be? Take a wild guess - could it be previously law abiding gun owners?
Click to expand...

While the enforcement is rough- it's also important not to lose sight of
the fact that LEGISLATORS and JUDGES (eg, them not smashing
enough stuff down as being unconstitutional) enable this behavior by
passing shitty laws or allowing them to stand. If owning guns or possessing
drugs was (completely, not conditionally) legal, we would have very little
concern about the police smashing our doors down. If this poor woman
was some legislator's mom, how big do you think the jihad would be to get rid
of the laws? I think the lawmakers are out of touch with reality, and thats
why they get away with passing the trash. IMO an effective legisator is
one that rarely passes a new law and spends most of their time removing
laws that don't do anything.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Even if the lady wasnt armed, what if she had a bad ticker and these guys bashing in essentially gave her a heart
attack?
Click to expand...

That's already happened; the city will give the surviving heirs $50K without admitting any wrong... [rolleyes]

Rev. Accelyne Williams.

Williams, a 75-year-old retired minister, dies of a heart attack after 13 members of a heavily-armed Boston SWAT team storm his apartment in body armor and black masks.

One police source tells the Boston Herald of the raid, "Everything was done right, except it was the wrong apartment." Police later discover that an informant had given them incorrect information that a "Jamaican drug posse operated out of the building," and failed to specify which apartment to target.

A week after the raid, media investigators discovered that three of the officers involved had been accused in a 1989 civil rights suit of using nonexistent informants to secure drug warrants. The suit resulted in a $50,000 settlement from the city of Boston and one witness testified that an officer apologized after realizing the mistake, telling its occupants, "this happens all the time."

Sources:

Joseph Mallia and Maggie Mulvihill, "Minister dies as cops raid wrong apartment," Boston Herald, March 26, 1994, p. 1.

Maggie Mulvihill, "3 cops at botched raid were sued in prior gaffe," Boston Herald, April 1, 1994, p. 6.

March 25, 1994
Click to expand...
 
Kurtz said:
I heard today a 90 year old lady was shot and killed in a raid, wrong house? I heard the cops were in plain clothes, if they busted in un announced I would have opened fire too.
Click to expand...

Doesn't that only work for wealthy car dealers?
[sad]
 
Do you really think it's fair to lash out at me because you aren't getting any lately, Derek? [rolleyes]

I think not...
spank.gif


tongue.gif


Now we've drifted off topic and should really try to get back on topic. [grin]

Stop the raids!

derek said:
There is a distinct difference between being passionate and sounding like a child throwing a temper tantrum... [thinking]
Click to expand...
 
drgrant said:
While the enforcement is rough- it's also important not to lose sight of
the fact that LEGISLATORS and JUDGES (eg, them not smashing
enough stuff down as being unconstitutional) enable this behavior by
passing shitty laws or allowing them to stand. If owning guns or possessing
drugs was (completely, not conditionally) legal, we would have very little
concern about the police smashing our doors down. If this poor woman
was some legislator's mom, how big do you think the jihad would be to get rid
of the laws? I think the lawmakers are out of touch with reality, and thats
why they get away with passing the trash. IMO an effective legisator is
one that rarely passes a new law and spends most of their time removing
laws that don't do anything.

-Mike
Click to expand...

I agree with you on that - frankly I think the ever growing legions of SWAT teams are just another manifestation of the liberal nanny state we are now living in. With legislators and judges passing and ruling on ever more restrictive laws what is happening is that they are pushing up against behaviors that people feel that the law and goverment have no justifiable reason to restrict. When citizens push back the police push harder to try and enforce the law - and this push by police gives the legislators more reason to pass even more laws - which just drives the resistance to those laws to a further level.


What you have here is a feedback loop - and the goverment refuses to back down on what are unconstitutional and unjust laws.

This is the same sort of cycle this country went thru in the decades leading up to the American Revolution. A few months back the History Channel had a series on the Revolution - and the first episodes were among the most interesting because they pointed out that as the English passed increasingly restrictive laws -and higher taxes - the colonists fought back. Sometimes the laws were repealed - and something else would be tried in their place. This battle went on for a couple of decades before the anger at the English finally got to the point of Lexington and Concord, and the Revolution started. What we have going on here now is I believe just the historical windup to the eventual second revolution - it is inevitable.
 
I heard today a 90 year old lady was shot and killed in a raid, wrong house? I

It wasn't the wrong house. Drug buys were conducted at the house prior to the warrant service. It seems that the 92 y/o has some relitives that were using her home for their dealing thinking it would be safer. That isn't a guess. That is first hand info from a Atlanta PD officer.
 
rscalzo said:
It wasn't the wrong house. Drug buys were conducted at the house prior to the warrant service. It seems that the 92 y/o has some relitives that were using her home for their dealing thinking it would be safer. That isn't a guess. That is first hand info from a Atlanta PD officer.
Click to expand...

So the 92 y/o woman is dead because the Atlanta PD did their raid when the people they were looking for weren't there?? [rolleyes]

I agree with JF. Legalize the frickin' drugs and stop letting the drug cartels make millions and turn our streets into battle grounds. And stop with the raids by cops dressed as soldiers.

I seem to recall reading a study that showed that the percentage of the populace who used drugs stayed pretty steady before and after criminalization... wish I could find it again. That would seem to indicate that the drug laws actually do nothing useful.
 
Wasn't there a recent (10-15 years=recent) movie which started out with a wrong address "raid" or whatever you call it?
 
Coyote33 said:
Wasn't there a recent (10-15 years=recent) movie which started out with a wrong address "raid" or whatever you call it?
Click to expand...

There was "Brazil" by Terry Gilliam, which I think is one of the most brilliant critiques of totalitarian states since 1984. And our own police and government seem to be acting more and more like the "Ministry of Information".

Y'know that really reminds me of 'Dept. of Homeland Security' , anyone else? I hate that phrase. Thanks George Bush for putting us one large step closer to the world of Brazil.
 
They were looking for the evidence, not any specific indivuals from what I gather. As I stated earlier, it was a Search Warrant, not an Arrest Warrant. Two vastly different animals.
 
dwarven1 said:
Legalize the frickin' drugs and stop letting the drug cartels make millions and turn our streets into battle grounds. And stop with the raids by cops dressed as soldiers. .
Click to expand...

Legalize the drugs and tax them.

If the Commiewealth can tax my chewing tobacco and dip at the rate of 90% of the wholesale price, imagine how much money they could make on marijuana or cocaine!

Treat the drugs they way do alcohol. If an adult wants to smoke, snort or shoot something into their system, let them. If they die as a result, oh well! It was their choice. Now if you hurt or kill someone else while under the influence, hang their ass out to dry!
 
Big Daddy 45acp said:
Legalize the drugs and tax them.

If the Commiewealth can tax my chewing tobacco and dip at the rate of 90% of the wholesale price, imagine how much money they could make on marijuana or cocaine!

Treat the drugs they way do alcohol. If an adult wants to smoke, snort or shoot something into their system, let them. If they die as a result, oh well! It was their choice. Now if you hurt or kill someone else while under the influence, hang their ass out to dry!
Click to expand...
+1!!

Those are my feelings EXACTLY. I believe it comes under being an adult - taking responsibility for your own actions.
 
Big Daddy 45acp said:
Legalize the drugs and tax them.

If the Commiewealth can tax my chewing tobacco and dip at the rate of 90% of the wholesale price, imagine how much money they could make on marijuana or cocaine!

Treat the drugs they way do alcohol. If an adult wants to smoke, snort or shoot something into their system, let them. If they die as a result, oh well! It was their choice. Now if you hurt or kill someone else while under the influence, hang their ass out to dry!
Click to expand...

+1 I said this years ago when we could all see that we were just pushing water. It was either legalize the drugs or just shoot the dealers on the corners.
 
dwarven1 said:
+1!!

Those are my feelings EXACTLY. I believe it comes under being an adult - taking responsibility for your own actions.
Click to expand...


Now now now....the nanny state will have none of that. They know whats best for you and me and will not have anyone making their own decisions in life or acting responsible about any part of their life.[grin]

Isn't that about the gist of it?
 

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