Stop and Frisk ruled unconstitutional

hminsky

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""I think we disproportionately stop whites too much and minorities too little. It's exactly the reverse of what they say," Bloomberg said, referring to the City Council passing two NYPD oversight bills intended to check the NYPD's allegedly unconstitutional enforcement policies (bills he's already vowed to veto). "I don't know where they went to school but they certainly didn't take a math course. Or a logic course."

Only nine percent of stops were white people. Still, Bloomberg was undeterred in his assessment: "That may be, but it's not a disproportionate percentage of those who witnesses and victims describe as committing the murders," he said, adding, "most serious crimes in this city are committed by male minorities [age] 15 to 25."

New Yorkers seem to have gotten what they wanted by electing this guy; insulting patronizing nanny state fascist government with a giant militarized police force.
 
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horrible ruling.

the judge says the government has the ability to stop and frisk you at any time, as long as everyone is stopped and frisked equally.

basically the ruling says the program of stopping and frisking has to expand.
 
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horrible ruling.

the judge says the government has the ability to stop and frisk you at any time, as long as everyone is stopped and frisked equally.

basically the ruling says the program of stopping and frisking has to expand.

Useless Constitution is useless. Dead white guys and all that. We got children to protect.
 
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The daily poll on MSN.com asks if "stop and frisk" is an acceptable way to stop crime. Sadly the "No" votes are only winning by a small margin, 52% to 43% for "Yes". I wonder if those numbers would look different if the people who have actually been frisked were polled? I'm sure a lot of "yes" votes would turn to "no" after being violated by NYC's finest.
 
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We have Stop and Frisk in Massachusetts too. Just go out in your boat and cruise around for awhile, you'll get a nice example of it.
 

Len-2A Training

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Not related. Different last name spellings:

Shira Scheindlin
Judith Sheindlin

You can't really determine this from last names of Jewish immigrants.

A little known factoid (and why I have been 100% unsuccessful trying to track Family thru Ellis Island records) . . .

My grandfather and cousin came to the US from Russia and since they didn't speak any English, their last names were "determined" by Immigration folks at Ellis Island . . . end result was one has a double "l" and "i" in his last name whereas the other has a single "l" and no "i" (it's on "o")! Immigration officials tried to determine the names from how they sounded or the Russian documents they had with them, creating a lot of changes and variations along the way.
 
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Unless I am understand things wrong, the ruling was that the 'profiling' aspect of stop and frisk is unconstitutional, not that stop and frisk is. So basically, as long as police now stop and frisk more white people, it is okay. Great ruling....[rolleyes]
 

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You can't really determine this from last names of Jewish immigrants.

A little known factoid (and why I have been 100% unsuccessful trying to track Family thru Ellis Island records) . . .

My grandfather and cousin came to the US from Russia and since they didn't speak any English, their last names were "determined" by Immigration folks at Ellis Island . . . end result was one has a double "l" and "i" in his last name whereas the other has a single "l" and no "i" (it's on "o")! Immigration officials tried to determine the names from how they sounded or the Russian documents they had with them, creating a lot of changes and variations along the way.

In addition to that, many times people brought over "unrelated relatives" who took on their sponsor's last name.
 

falcon123

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Why spend all that time trying to prove profiling when instead all they had to do was show that this stop and frisk policy is unconstitutional? And what if the groups that were profiled never came forth? Would stop and frisk continue?


Alleging profiling and racism has a much better effect than just alleging unconstitutionality. That's why the race card is so frayed and worn out.
 

falcon123

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Unless I am understand things wrong, the ruling was that the 'profiling' aspect of stop and frisk is unconstitutional, not that stop and frisk is. So basically, as long as police now stop and frisk more white people, it is okay. Great ruling....[rolleyes]

As long as some hot chick cop is the one doing the groping and frisking, I'm fine with that. [smile]
 
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As long as some hot chick cop is the one doing the groping and frisking, I'm fine with that. [smile]

Depends on how 'hot' you find them to be I suppose.



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Unless I am understand things wrong, the ruling was that the 'profiling' aspect of stop and frisk is unconstitutional, not that stop and frisk is. So basically, as long as police now stop and frisk more white people, it is okay. Great ruling....[rolleyes]

Yeah, seems you're right. Depressing isn't it. All this will mean is that the NYPD will frisk 8 white grandmothers to balance out each black or hispanic young male.
 
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This could lead to successful appeals for all of those convicted based on stop and frisk evidence.
A lot of the arrests were for possession of so-called "gravity knives". For example, you have a 3" Kershaw, CRKT or Cold Steel folder in your pocket. You get randomly stopped and frisked by the NYPD. Cop finds your pocketknife and flicks the blade open by whatever means possible, including holding the blade and flicking the handle. Knife opens and locks. You get cuffed and stuffed, taken to central booking and kept in a holding cell for up to 24 hours. Even professionals, such as chefs and electricians, have been arrested for this.
 

Prepper

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A lot of the arrests were for possession of so-called "gravity knives". For example, you have a 3" Kershaw, CRKT or Cold Steel folder in your pocket. You get randomly stopped and frisked by the NYPD. Cop finds your pocketknife and flicks the blade open by whatever means possible, including holding the blade and flicking the handle. Knife opens and locks. You get cuffed and stuffed, taken to central booking and kept in a holding cell for up to 24 hours. Even professionals, such as chefs and electricians, have been arrested for this.

Gotta protect the children.

It seems none of these stop and frisks are even for any actual crimes, you know like with an actual victim and all that? So what if someone is walking down the street with a knife, a forbidden plant product or even a gun. Good for them. As long as they don't assault me or try to force me to eat their plant, I don't GAF.
 
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Cop Cams Ordered to Help Fix NYC Stop-and-Frisk - ABC News

In the years of debate over New York City's stop-and-frisk tactic, the idea of putting tiny cameras on police officers to record their interaction with the public was never seriously considered.
It came up almost by accident during the monthslong civil rights trial over stop and frisk, when the city's own policing expert raised it during testimony as something other cities use to determine whether a stop was made legally.
U.S. District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin seized on it.
"It would solve a lot of problems," she said. "Everybody would know exactly what occurred. It would be easy to review it. The officer would be aware he's on tape."

Body cams for cops. Hmmm.... is their solution to a police state a bigger surveillance state?

On the other hand, there might be some positive aspects of it:
A yearlong pilot program in Rialto, Calif., ended in February, and researchers there found the number of use-of-force incidents dropped by half. The city of about 100,000 also had significantly fewer public complaints about police, dropping from 28 to just three.
.............
An officer was fired last month when investigators reviewed video from his body-mounted camera and found he was profane and abrasive during calls and traffic stops, calling one person "an idiot."
 

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Cop Cams Ordered to Help Fix NYC Stop-and-Frisk - ABC News



Body cams for cops. Hmmm.... is their solution to a police state a bigger surveillance state?

On the other hand, there might be some positive aspects of it:
I don't think it is a bigger surveillance state that this would create, the cops are already -in most cases- working "in the public square" and on behalf of the public.

I think it would be great if every single interaction with the police was videotaped. No more bogus "he refused the breathalyzer" claims. No more bogus "resisting arrest" or "interfering" claims.

I'm not immediately seeing the privacy issues. What are your concerns?
 

lancecolonel

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I don't think it is a bigger surveillance state that this would create, the cops are already -in most cases- working "in the public square" and on behalf of the public.

I think it would be great if every single interaction with the police was videotaped. No more bogus "he refused the breathalyzer" claims. No more bogus "resisting arrest" or "interfering" claims.

I'm not immediately seeing the privacy issues. What are your concerns?
It sounds like a splendid idea...until the camera malfunctions or the footage is somehow "lost". I mean, we have all seen how much the cruiser cams help us civvies.
 

Rob Boudrie

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I think it would be great if every single interaction with the police was videotaped. No more bogus "he refused the breathalyzer" claims. No more bogus "resisting arrest" or "interfering" claims.
Indeed. One of the reason the SJC cited in upholding Commonwealth v Hyde (felony conviction for a hidden tape recorder at a traffic stop) is that the practice, it legal, would result in criminals attempting to document police misconduct.
 
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It sounds like a splendid idea...until the camera malfunctions or the footage is somehow "lost". I mean, we have all seen how much the cruiser cams help us civvies.

I don't think it is a bigger surveillance state that this would create, the cops are already -in most cases- working "in the public square" and on behalf of the public.

I think it would be great if every single interaction with the police was videotaped. No more bogus "he refused the breathalyzer" claims. No more bogus "resisting arrest" or "interfering" claims.

I'm not immediately seeing the privacy issues. What are your concerns?
I don't exactly have a specific concern, I was really was asking a question to see what everyone else's thoughts were.

It honestly doesn't sound too bad to me either, at first glance. You're right, the cops are already - usually - in public, so it should not be an issue... but, it struck me that the same exact argument would be made on behalf of putting cameras on every lightpole or city block.

Would you care about video cameras on every street? I would, even though they would obviously be only in public. So what is the big difference here from throwing a camera around every cops neck? I guess you could argue that it would not be impossible to avoid cop while the same could not be said about a camera on every street. Or maybe the assumption is that the cop-cam would not have limitless storage via uploading to a central database (although, that would certainly not be impossible in the not too distant future if it is not already).
 
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It sounds like a splendid idea...until the camera malfunctions or the footage is somehow "lost". I mean, we have all seen how much the cruiser cams help us civvies.
I do not believe all of the cops will be equipped with the cams. So, it may work like this. Two cops on patrol, one wired with cam and one not. They spot some minority that they want to give some crap to. Officer with cam stays watch in cruiser (or turns his/her back to the side) while the non-wired-cop conducts the random frisk search. Nothing got caught on tape, right? OK, folks, just move along now. Nothing to see here! NYPD street cops will find a way around that type of BS post-haste. You can bet on it! They are judged on numbers. The more arrests, especially felony arrests, the better they look in front of their superiors.
 
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That is possible. What you may find both intriguing, and also sad, is that many cops would also welcome having a camera and allowing it to capture their actions, because they actually believe what they are doing is appropriate, so it furthers their position (in their eyes). I mean, say they stop someone randomly, and that person gives them lip. Now they think "well this person deserves it", so they WANT to capture that on video. Of course the fact that having an attitude or giving lip is usually by way of asserting your rights, but they don't see it that way...
 

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A few years ago I was SLAMMED into a wall in Jamaica Queens for "dressing like I had drugs on me." Part time I work in "underground" night club promotion for a friends sounds and lighting company. I dress like a goof. *shrug* It's fun, don't care what anyone else thinks. I was ignorant to the NY Stop and Frisk laws, and when a cop decided he wanted to search me, I was kind of a smart ass... But I wasn't rude, and I cited the 4th.... His response was to literally SLAM me face first into the nearest hard structure.... Then pin me to the ground as he screamed for backup. After some rough handling, a ridiculously thorough search, and 10 minutes of making fun of me for the way I dressed and thinking "I was tough enough to try and **** with him", they just told me to screw. >.> NYC sucks. glad to see this falling by the wayside finally. Can't believe it took this long.
 

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A few years ago I was SLAMMED into a wall in Jamaica Queens for "dressing like I had drugs on me." Part time I work in "underground" night club promotion for a friends sounds and lighting company. I dress like a goof. *shrug* It's fun, don't care what anyone else thinks. I was ignorant to the NY Stop and Frisk laws, and when a cop decided he wanted to search me, I was kind of a smart ass... But I wasn't rude, and I cited the 4th.... His response was to literally SLAM me face first into the nearest hard structure.... Then pin me to the ground as he screamed for backup. After some rough handling, a ridiculously thorough search, and 10 minutes of making fun of me for the way I dressed and thinking "I was tough enough to try and **** with him", they just told me to screw. >.> NYC sucks. glad to see this falling by the wayside finally. Can't believe it took this long.
Many law abiding blacks live with this shit every day just because they are poor and live in the wrong neighborhood, have committed no crime except walking while poor and black, and then some wonder why they feel oppressed in this country.
 
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