Steel Cases

Yes, if someone doesn't make their ammo properly, sure... but as a generality? You couldn't be more wrong.

-Mike

What i mean is that in the majority of firearm "failure" cases that i see, the user was firing reloaded ammo....not steel cased import ammo.

obviously nothing wrong w loading ones own ammo if its done correctly....but sure seems there are some dufuses out there. Its why i also dont trust other people's reloads. I am not an ammo expert, but i do believe it can be F'ed up and thus F up the gun.
 
Have to strongly disagree with that. (From a personal standpoint)
Reloads are only as good as the person who made them.

Commercially reloaded ammo can have any number of issues but I trust my own over even new manufactured ammo. I've had more issues and inconsistencies with Rem UMC, WWB, Federal etc. than my own reloads. At least I know where they came from and who made them.

this is my point.
i cant tell you how many times ive seen a catastrophic failure w handloaded ammo.
on the flipside, i cant remember the last time i saw a catastrophic failure w steel cased surplus or cheapie ammo of any caliber.
Its just an observation. No reason for anyone to get butthurt but im sure it will happen anyway.
 
No worries, my butt feels fine. You made your "observation". Like you eluded to, someone was bound to chime in with an appropriate response to the comment. Never intended to come off sounding upset about trash talking reloads.
 
From my experiences most steel cased ammo being Russian manufacture is usually lesser quality than commercial US produced brass cased ammo. Popped primers, dirty powder, low pressure, and on occasion corrosive rifle ammo when labeled as non corrosive. Some higher end brands like Golden Tiger and Wolf WPA are always good to go but I've even heard complaints from Wolf and Tula brass. But lets face it, there's a reason why it's cheaper.

As far as manufacturer warnings go... the main thing I always heard about an issue with was damage to extractors.
 
Steel cases do not fully expand and seal the chamber like brass. This is what causes failure to extract, a dirty chamber in a gun that never gets cleaned. I've shot over 10k rounds of steel ammo. The only failure to extract I've ever had was due to my extractor lip breaking off.

Also modern steel ammo is not lacquer coated, it's polymer coated.

I also reload steel case .223.

I don't think that's entirely true. They do expand and seal against the chamber. I know I don't notice more blow-by on my steel cased rounds than I do on brass cased ones.

The CTE of steel is lower than brass, so brass should expand and contract more. Brass has nearly double the thermal conductivity of steel. So in theory, the brass case should expand more and expand faster, then cool and shrink faster.

I think FTE is generally caused by the case still being expanded when the extractor attempts to rip it out of the chamber, because the steel simply has not cooled and contracted enough yet. I'm wondering if that is the reason some manufacturers use a faster powder curve in steel ammo, to give it a bit more time to cool before the extractor pulls on it.
 
I agree with everything you say except for the chamber sealing part. My 9mm brass cased ammo is no where as sooty as the steel, loads being equal. Faster powder curve, I'll have to check into that.

I don't think that's entirely true. They do expand and seal against the chamber. I know I don't notice more blow-by on my steel cased rounds than I do on brass cased ones.

The CTE of steel is lower than brass, so brass should expand and contract more. Brass has nearly double the thermal conductivity of steel. So in theory, the brass case should expand more and expand faster, then cool and shrink faster.

I think FTE is generally caused by the case still being expanded when the extractor attempts to rip it out of the chamber, because the steel simply has not cooled and contracted enough yet. I'm wondering if that is the reason some manufacturers use a faster powder curve in steel ammo, to give it a bit more time to cool before the extractor pulls on it.
 
We were shooting Wolf steel cased through my son's M&P 15 and experienced a stuck case. A very light tap from a cleaning rod cleared it. The extractor had ripped a chunk of the rim off. Not sure how this case got stuck, given the light effort required to remove it.
 
We were shooting Wolf steel cased through my son's M&P 15 and experienced a stuck case. A very light tap from a cleaning rod cleared it. The extractor had ripped a chunk of the rim off. Not sure how this case got stuck, given the light effort required to remove it.

Same thing happened to me with some tula at the beginning of the spring. Case stuck section of rim ripped off. I just tossed the rifle in the snow to cool down a little then tapped it out with a cleaning rod like you mentioned. I'll still buy more tula, who cares if it has a higher failure rate as long as it runs and is cheap I will shoot it.

As for the steel vs brass debate here is my take on it. There are many factors that go into "cheap, dirty, etc" ammo other than it being steel cased. It just so happens that the majority of cheap crappy ammo is steel cased, that doesn't mean steel cased ammo is inherently crappy, its just different. Steel is not the same as brass so it isn't going to react to the force of the gas in the chamber the same as brass is. Either not expanding as much or quicly and sealing quite as well or not relaxing as quickly when the extractor goes to yank it out, but that doesn't make it worse just different. The other factors of primers and powder seem to have a bigger impact in the way the ammo performs in my experience. For instance tula, its cheap runs pretty much fine in my ar, but its dirty and does have a higher failure rate. MFS, or ruag ammotech, what ever they are calling them selves now, is an inexpensive zinc coated steel cased round that runs great, runs clean and doesn't smell like vinegar. I have used it have 2 friends that use it and haven't seen either of them have a failure with it yet. I'm not trying to say everyone should go out and buy ruag, just saying that there are more differences between one brand of ammo and another other than just the case material.

Oh and also the reason you see more steel cased ammo from Russia is because they have a huge amount of steel over there as well as less brass deposits. Also they have been using it for so long that they do just design they're firearms to use steel cased ammo.

My Stag Arms upper and my m&p shield both have eaten everything I have fed them. My shield went for around 8-900 rounds with no cleanings or lube and had literally 1 failure to eject in that time. I shot everything from speer lawman to tula wolf and brown bear in it. That one failure? Winchester white box, low powered round. My ar is up around probably 5-600 rds so far and been pretty much like a clock. It has had more failures than my shield but it has been getting fed some old, inherited from a friend that kept it in a closet, ammo. I've had more isues with that than I have with the tula its been fed.
 
Last edited:
Newbie here. It looks like all the problems with steel ammo are relating to cycling and semi-automatic issues. Does steel ammo act any differently in a revolver?
 
Newbie here. It looks like all the problems with steel ammo are relating to cycling and semi-automatic issues. Does steel ammo act any differently in a revolver?

Shoot some and find out. I have never had problems.

AFAIK the "issues" with steel cased ammo is the user, not the ammo.
only real issues I believe exist are 1. Overgased DI gun which could damage extractor or rip off case head and 2. Mixing brass and steel cases could result in stuck case due to how they seal the chamber differently. Just my 2c. Probably there are more exotic issues that could arise but thats always the case.

i have never had a single issue w steel case ammo in my life. None of the experienced shooters I know have had issues assuming their firearm was setup correctly (and I trust the experiences of those who have shot far more than myself).

excellent discussion...

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960[/video]
 
Last edited:
Mostly its a gas port or buffer weight issue.

What about barrel wear? I bought my first gun used, so it already has some barrel wear. Would using steel ammo exacerbate this at all?

I was reading this article and their conclusion was pretty clear that steel eats the barrel faster. But is this more related to other issues, such as rate of fire, gas port wear, and number of rounds so that the average shooter won't notice the difference?
 
AFAIK the "issues" with steel cased ammo is the user, not the ammo.
only real issues I believe exist are 1. Overgased DI gun which could damage extractor or rip off case head and 2. Mixing brass and steel cases could result in stuck case due to how they seal the chamber differently. Just my 2c. Probably there are more exotic issues that could arise but thats always the case.

i have never had a single issue w steel case ammo in my life. None of the experienced shooters I know have had issues assuming their firearm was setup correctly (and I trust the experiences of those who have shot far more than myself).

excellent discussion...

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960[/video]

Think again.

I tried Wolf in 5 different 9mm handguns and my S&W 1911 (.45) with failures to feed in each and every one of them. Called S&W tech support (although they weren't all S&W guns) and they admitted that some (especially older model guns) wouldn't feed properly with steel cased ammo. Sold off all that ammo and never a problem with brass cased ammo.
 
Think again.

I tried Wolf in 5 different 9mm handguns and my S&W 1911 (.45) with failures to feed in each and every one of them. Called S&W tech support (although they weren't all S&W guns) and they admitted that some (especially older model guns) wouldn't feed properly with steel cased ammo. Sold off all that ammo and never a problem with brass cased ammo.

i'm not claiming your experience didn't happen, but mine has been quite different.

i've run thousands of rounds of both polymer coated TulAmmo and even old crappy lacquer-coated Monarch through 10+ handguns. never had a single issue. not a single FT-fire. no stuck cases. no damaged extractors. nothing.

i did experience a stuck case in my mini 14...but i chalk that up to user error because i got the rifle VERY hot from rapid fire, then let it cool down while it was chambered with a live round. after the fact i learned this will often generate a stuck case so since then i clear the chamber. IMO this is a legit disadvantage with steel ammo vs. brass.
 
Last edited:
What about barrel wear? I bought my first gun used, so it already has some barrel wear. Would using steel ammo exacerbate this at all?

I was reading this article and their conclusion was pretty clear that steel eats the barrel faster. But is this more related to other issues, such as rate of fire, gas port wear, and number of rounds so that the average shooter won't notice the difference?

i think your'e referring to the bi-metal casing of most steel cased ammo like TulAmmo. most steel cased ammo has a bi-metal jacket, meaning it's a copper jacket over a steel inner jacket on top of a lead core.
personally i have never had any issues and i've put >4000 rounds of TulAmmo through various .223 rifles. no issues.

when somebody can show me two barrels comparing the effects of a bi-metal jacket vs. a standard copper jacket, then i'll believe it....otherwise it's conjecture at best as far as i'm concerned.
 
i think your'e referring to the bi-metal casing of most steel cased ammo like TulAmmo. most steel cased ammo has a bi-metal jacket, meaning it's a copper jacket over a steel inner jacket on top of a lead core.
personally i have never had any issues and i've put >4000 rounds of TulAmmo through various .223 rifles. no issues.

when somebody can show me two barrels comparing the effects of a bi-metal jacket vs. a standard copper jacket, then i'll believe it....otherwise it's conjecture at best as far as i'm concerned.

I don't know if this answers your question. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#erosion
I will not argue the issue. I have no problem with steel cased bi metal or what have you. If I put 5k rounds of steel/ bi metal through any of my milspec less expensive ARs and it wears out I will buy a new barrel.... scratch that a new rifle.

My small circle of friends with ARs....90% wont put 1000 rounds through their rifles in a life time....of those 80% wont run steel cause the damage it will do.
I'm puzzled
For me I expect my milspec rifles to function on any brand of ammo.
Especially top of the line life dependant rifle( I don't own a AR that I would call top of the line)....cause God knows if your life is depending on it you cant depend to have the ammo it likes at every moment .
To each his own. I don't put steel case ammo through my performance center 1911 only because when I do shoot that thing I want the most accurate bullet.
Not that my skills warrent it it just makes my head feel big!

Again if steel cased ammo was so bad hornady wouldn't have invested in it. I see in a not so distant future more companies shifting to steel....but their steel cases will be super duper redesigned blahblahblah.
 
I know my friend has an issue with steel ammo in his SR45 with the cases splitting in the barrel and failing to extract, sometimes the extract lets go and the casing is halfway out.

Personally, I haven't had any issues with steel ammo beyond a binding up upon initial chambering when dirty.
 
Pistols are significantly different than ARs with respect to eating ammo. On most pistols the slide is the "buffer" and is machined to a specific weight to work with a specific ammo profile. Some pistols will not shoot steel case ammo because the rounds are notoriously underpowered when compared to most brass commercial ammo.
 
Pistols are significantly different than ARs with respect to eating ammo. On most pistols the slide is the "buffer" and is machined to a specific weight to work with a specific ammo profile. Some pistols will not shoot steel case ammo because the rounds are notoriously underpowered when compared to most brass commercial ammo.

Ahh! Did not know that. Thanks for the info.
 
Pistols are significantly different than ARs with respect to eating ammo. On most pistols the slide is the "buffer" and is machined to a specific weight to work with a specific ammo profile. Some pistols will not shoot steel case ammo because the rounds are notoriously underpowered when compared to most brass commercial ammo.

Has anyone did a test on these like luckygunners AR test? I reload my pistol rounds very light would bet they are weaker than any steel cased .....silly light and still function. Heck I even get semi wadcutters to cycle in my model 39.....
It might just be me but it seems we get complaints about under powered steel cases ammo in more "American " based cals. 223,45 40 ectect.
I will say I prefer the steel cased fodder for my 9x18 vs ppu the only brass cased 9x18 I have ever come across.
762x39......I cant even remember the last time I seen brass cased us manufactured x39. I bought all the yugo brass cased shit I could afford a while back.
Hmm I have not seen any 32acp steel cased stuff but would love to try some if the savings is that much better.
 
Not sure of any testing, but the operation of a semi pistol is all momentum based. Either you have enough energy to cycle the slide or you don't.
 
Pistols are significantly different than ARs with respect to eating ammo. On most pistols the slide is the "buffer" and is machined to a specific weight to work with a specific ammo profile. Some pistols will not shoot steel case ammo because the rounds are notoriously underpowered when compared to most brass commercial ammo.

The issue w an underpowered round is not shooting, but cycling. Along these lines, I have never encountered a modern centerfire handgun that failed to cycle w TulAmmo or monarch steel case ammo. While I agree the powder burns slower than fancier ammo and therefore may be a bit weaker, if the gun is clean and lubed it should cycle just fine.

also, WRT the Ruger SR45 post above....the issue is likely the gun not ammo. My ruger SR45 cannot reliably extract blazer brass or UMC, and those are both brass cased ammo. My gun will need to have uncle Ruger look at it in the nesr future. Their CS is amazing and I have heard many others having extraction issues w the SR45. I am thus skeptical that your friends issue is the steel case.
 
For those curious, I just ran about 100 rounds of brass and 100 rounds of steel through a 'new' (bought it preowned) Ruger Blackhawk .357. No problems with the velocity, no misfires, no trouble ejecting, and no noticeable difference in grime or barrel wear. The only difference was in how the ammo handled, with the steel rounds usually hitting lower. Though I'm not very experienced, so that might be user error. And here's a picture of the brands I used. Interestingly, I was more accurate with the steel Blazer .38 than the brass American Eagle. (The PMC was my favorite) I'm gonna post a detailed overview once I decide which subforum it would belong on...

TbB0vLV.jpg
 
thats blazer aluminum, not steel.

most common steel case around these parts is TulAmmo.
 
Back
Top Bottom