Starting to Cast.....Which Lube Sizer?

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After reading on different forums and watching Youtube videos I've decided to go ahead and start. The main reason is a hookup I have with a basically free supply of wheel weights. So I've started to collect all the equipment and even got a free Lee 10lb pot with assorted bullet molds from a guy who never got into it.

The big purchase seems to be the bullet lube sizer. The 3 models that I am looking at are:

Magna Star Lube-Sizer = $250 (+ Heater $105 + Shovel Handle $26 = $381
http://magmaengineering.com/products/magma-star-lube-sizer

RCBS Lube-A-Matic = $148 (+ Lyman Lubricator Heater $48 = $192)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=172702
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=182761

Lyman 4500 with Heater = $157
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=655459



Most seem to recommend the Star. Since I'm getting the Lee Pot for free I don't mind putting in more money for the Star. I don't have space for more than one so this would be it. Seems like there are a lot of savvy casters on this forum so I thought I would ask here for help. My next choice was the RCBS. Is it worth it getting the Star for the extra cash. In the long run, I'm not worried about the extra cash, all the low end reloading stuff has already been replaced with quality. I use a Hornady LNL Progressive and I'm very very happy with it. Any advice would be helpful.

So far I've bought:

Harbor Freight Pot = $27 shipped
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44705

Bayou High Pressure Burner = $39 (Benny's)
http://bayouclassicdepot.com/sq14_propane_burner.htm

Lee Ladle = $9 shipped (eBay)
 
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The RCBS and Lyman lubricizers both require that you place the bullet to be sized in the sizing die (bottom part), and run the handle down. That uses a top punch (so that you don't damage the point of the bullet, you need to get an appropriate top punch) to push the casting down through the sizer, and then back up to be picked up, put in a box, and then repeat. The sizing rings and top punches for the lyman and rcbs are interchangeable. The Star does it differently. You place the bullet to be sized on the botton punch, and send it UPWARD through the sizing die. The next one through pushes the previous one out the top into a container. So, you only have to purchase the sizing die for it. And, since you are only handling the bullet once, it goes MUCH faster. You pay a hefty price for that feature, and depending on how many you will be doing, it might be worth buying the Star.

I opted for the Lyman 4500, and it works fine. I got it because it was cheaper.

Make sure you attend the NES Cast Bullet Workshop in the Spring!
 
Duke, this is not the my star works.... I place a bullet nose down in the sizing die and the punch pushes it through from the base..... Comes out the bottom of the die and I either catch it or it falls into a box....

for the OP I would take a look at how much you plan on using the sizer.... If you are expecting a reasonable volume then the Star is a good choice since it has a pretty good throughput and is especially handy if you are sizing gas checked bullets.... Downside as you mentioned is cost and also the 6 weeks or so from order to delivery from Magna.... If you are not going for high volume I know guys who have both the Lyman and RCBS and are happy with them....

My star has the heater since I like hard lube bullets which aren't sticky but it works fine without the heater if you use a softer lube.... Regular handle isn't bad but I opted for the L shaped handle from Lathesmith on Cast Boolits and it works well for me....

The RCBS and Lyman lubricizers both require that you place the bullet to be sized in the sizing die (bottom part), and run the handle down. That uses a top punch (so that you don't damage the point of the bullet, you need to get an appropriate top punch) to push the casting down through the sizer, and then back up to be picked up, put in a box, and then repeat. The sizing rings and top punches for the lyman and rcbs are interchangeable. The Star does it differently. You place the bullet to be sized on the botton punch, and send it UPWARD through the sizing die. The next one through pushes the previous one out the top into a container. So, you only have to purchase the sizing die for it. And, since you are only handling the bullet once, it goes MUCH faster. You pay a hefty price for that feature, and depending on how many you will be doing, it might be worth buying the Star.

I opted for the Lyman 4500, and it works fine. I got it because it was cheaper.

Make sure you attend the NES Cast Bullet Workshop in the Spring!
 
I've used the Lyman for years but the Star sounds alot faster. If you use that Lee pot alone it will be very slow. You'll go through 10 pounds of alloy pretty fast. I melt the alloy in a cast iron pot on a Coleman stove then transfer it to the pot and melt more on the stove. If you don't do this, you'll spend most of your time waiting for lead to melt.
 
To start out, a free 10lb Lee pot sounds good. I plan on making the ingots and then continuing to feed the pot. My understanding is that the lead melts relatively quickly. I don't think I could do it the way you are doing it.

How many bullets can you make with 10lbs of lead. Say 230gr RN 45ACP or 158gr 38spl SWC.
 
Hmmmm, sorry Bob_J, my memory is failing me again.

Just a note to the OP:

When you process lead through the molds, there are two types of lube rings on the castings.
1) Regular deep grooves. These are the ones that require lubing on either lubricizer or with the pan method as previously described by Bob_J
2) Micro-grooves. These are very shallow multiple grooves. These bullets are not intended to be lubed with a lubricizer. They are meant to be lubed using Lee, White Label, or other tumble lube type lube. You can, of course, send all the castings through the sizer cold just to get them cleaned up, and to size.

Duke, this is not the my star works.... I place a bullet nose down in the sizing die and the punch pushes it through from the base..... Comes out the bottom of the die and I either catch it or it falls into a box....

for the OP I would take a look at how much you plan on using the sizer.... If you are expecting a reasonable volume then the Star is a good choice since it has a pretty good throughput and is especially handy if you are sizing gas checked bullets.... Downside as you mentioned is cost and also the 6 weeks or so from order to delivery from Magna.... If you are not going for high volume I know guys who have both the Lyman and RCBS and are happy with them....

My star has the heater since I like hard lube bullets which aren't sticky but it works fine without the heater if you use a softer lube.... Regular handle isn't bad but I opted for the L shaped handle from Lathesmith on Cast Boolits and it works well for me....
 
To start out, a free 10lb Lee pot sounds good. I plan on making the ingots and then continuing to feed the pot. My understanding is that the lead melts relatively quickly. I don't think I could do it the way you are doing it.

How many bullets can you make with 10lbs of lead. Say 230gr RN 45ACP or 158gr 38spl SWC.

230 grain bullets will give you approximately 30 per pound of alloy... Assuming you have 10 pounds of alloy you would have approximately 300 per pot....

Lee 4-20 pound pots are nice and don't cost an arm and a leg ($50 or so IIRC) and the bottom pour is pretty convenient.... Just sayin...[wink]
 
I definitely think the bottom pour pots are the way to go. I started with a standard Lee 10lb pot, used it for a month or 2 and got a bottom pour pot.
With 6 bullet molds it is very nice to be able to fill them all so quickly - no dipping......

J
 
If you are near Norwood I can show you the Star up close and personal. I am home the rest of this week at this point. PM if interested.
 
I have all three. The RCBS and Lyman are considerably slower than the Star. The Star can run 1000 bullets/hr if your arm can hold out, lol. I got mine when Star was still owned by Star and Ben's machine was making the bullet feeder for it. That was maybe 15 to 20 years ago and the machine still works great. If you want to do high volumes I highly recommend the air cylinder for the lube pressure, it stays consistent and eliminates having to constantly tighten the pressure spring. The bullet feeder is a nice addition but not totally necassary for all but the highest volumes. Do watch out for your fingers though if hand feeding. If you right hand gets ahead of your left the punch can take a nasty 1/2 moon chunk out of your finger or thumb (thereby bestowing the "order of the crescent moon" upon you, lol).
 
Sounds like the Star is the consensus. I guess I'll order it tomorrow. They told me that it is a 4 week wait at this time. I'll get the Star and Heater. I was advised to get the dies from Lathesmith on Cast Boolit. Is there anything else I should order with the Star?

I am primarily a Bullseye shooter and will cast 45ACP and 38spl to start. I was going to get BAC Lube from White Label Lube. Anything else people recommend?

Fixxah, I'm in Cranston, RI which I think is about 40 minutes away. I'll probably go with the Star at this point but will definitely take you up on you offer once it arrives. Hopefully I won't have too many issues with the machine and setup.
 
Have not used BAC but I love Carnauba Red.... Loads well (with a heater) and is one lube which I can use for the entire spectrum of everything I cast/load.... Went this route (one lube) since it's a royal PITA changing lubes in the star....

I have a dozen or so lathesmith dies and they have all been perfect for me.... Be sure to slug your bore before you size your dies and you will need to know the number of lube grooves and their spacing when you order the dies.... Also, if you are "space challenged" on your reloading bench like I am you may want to order a "Rock Dock" mounting system from Pat over on Cast Boolits.... My bench has the dillon strong mounted permanently and everything else (Lee Classic, Star, Dillon Super Swage etc) on Rock Dock plates that swap out as I need them.... Also have a "rock dock" mounted to a 2x12 for the road in case I want to use any of the equipment when I am not at my loading bench.... A couple of clamps to hold it down and you are good to go..... Works pretty well for me....[smile]

You might also want to check out this thread over on Cast Boolits..... Pretty good ideas for a bullet catcher for your star...... I've not tried any yet but am thinking to mount a box like ChrisX1 has done to my Rock Dock plate.... That way, the catcher is part of the entire "plug and play" assembly when I want to lube/size....

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=73888

You might also consider getting a 12 gauge shot shell storage box for your dies and punches.... Keeps them all neat and orderly for when you start to expand the number of dies you have....

Also have found that the locking rings (also available through lathesmith) are a great time saver when changing over.... Normally you have to dial in the punch but with these you only have to do it the first time when you are initially setting up..... After that any time you change over you only have to bottom the punch to the ring and are good to go....

One last thing I can offer is that you either contact Fixxah or me (I work in Foxboro which is not too far north of Cranston) when you get your star to do the initial setup and loading..... I didn't understand how to properly pull the plunger to load the lube when I first got mine and all sorts of hilarity ensued......[crying]

Sounds like the Star is the consensus. I guess I'll order it tomorrow. They told me that it is a 4 week wait at this time. I'll get the Star and Heater. I was advised to get the dies from Lathesmith on Cast Boolit. Is there anything else I should order with the Star?

I am primarily a Bullseye shooter and will cast 45ACP and 38spl to start. I was going to get BAC Lube from White Label Lube. Anything else people recommend?

Fixxah, I'm in Cranston, RI which I think is about 40 minutes away. I'll probably go with the Star at this point but will definitely take you up on you offer once it arrives. Hopefully I won't have too many issues with the machine and setup.
 
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Sounds like the Star is the consensus. I guess I'll order it tomorrow. They told me that it is a 4 week wait at this time. I'll get the Star and Heater. I was advised to get the dies from Lathesmith on Cast Boolit. Is there anything else I should order with the Star?

I am primarily a Bullseye shooter and will cast 45ACP and 38spl to start. I was going to get BAC Lube from White Label Lube. Anything else people recommend?

Fixxah, I'm in Cranston, RI which I think is about 40 minutes away. I'll probably go with the Star at this point but will definitely take you up on you offer once it arrives. Hopefully I won't have too many issues with the machine and setup.
I tried the lightbulb trick and made a mess, not worth it in my opinion. The heater that Magma sells for the Star has a replaceable element, I bought it and it is easy to set up. I had lathesmith make my dies also and have had no issues.

Setup of the press is simple but adding lube sticks requires a little common sense. I heat the press and when up to temp. you can unscrew the cap and pull the piston. Once you get the new lube stick in and heated, the first dozen or so bullets may have air spaces so just size them again and they will fill with lube. In the past I have cast a full ammo can and let them sit for months before sizing but Patriot says that it is much easied to do it within a few hours. This is because the bullets harden over time.

You can use many different lubes but I bought the red from Magma, they come in packages of ten. I gave away the lube that came with the press, too soft for my liking. the worst part about the Star is mounting it to the heater as the rear screw will only turn an eighth of a turn at a time. Keep the accessories for your setup in a container or bag so they don't get lost. Been there, done that.
 
one sidenote about the heater you get from star.

it is EXTREMELY SENSITIVE TO ADJUSTMENTS! seriously, 1/32nd of an inch too far and you can liquify lube lube REAL fast (i also use Caranuba Red, down to ~ 50sticks of it or so lol), and I'm sure Bob J can tell ya, get that stuff much above ~ 100-105 degrees, and it leaks from every orifice on that sizer...including the ones you didnt know it had.

a reasonable accurate thermocouple may be a worthwhile investment if you plan to experiment with various lubes, and once you find a good temp setting, MARK IT! i've got mine dialed in pretty good now, and i after letting it warm up for ~ 45 minutes (a habit i picked up from a wise old guy) before starting, i can size to my hearts content (or at least until i run the lube reservoir dry)
 
Jasper is spot on... Took me a while to get it right but now have it marked with a sharpie and it's another reason I don't want to change lubes....[wink]

one sidenote about the heater you get from star.

it is EXTREMELY SENSITIVE TO ADJUSTMENTS! seriously, 1/32nd of an inch too far and you can liquify lube lube REAL fast (i also use Caranuba Red, down to ~ 50sticks of it or so lol), and I'm sure Bob J can tell ya, get that stuff much above ~ 100-105 degrees, and it leaks from every orifice on that sizer...including the ones you didnt know it had.

a reasonable accurate thermocouple may be a worthwhile investment if you plan to experiment with various lubes, and once you find a good temp setting, MARK IT! i've got mine dialed in pretty good now, and i after letting it warm up for ~ 45 minutes (a habit i picked up from a wise old guy) before starting, i can size to my hearts content (or at least until i run the lube reservoir dry)
 
now, and i after letting it warm up for ~ 45 minutes (a habit i picked up from a wise old guy) before starting, i can size to my hearts content (or at least until i run the lube reservoir dry)

Heyyy! Who you callin OLD????? Wise, OK but OLD???? LOL
 
hey you're twice as old as me! besides, no one knew who i was talking about until you quoted me! its all good, with age comes wisdom, or something like that, right? [laugh2]
 
Patriot says that it is much easied to do it within a few hours. This is because the bullets harden over time.

If you water drop them. If not, I haven't noticed much hardening. The tip for this comes from BobJ. I measured a boolit this morning that I water dropped last week and last week I was getting a hardness of around 13-14. This morning I measured one that was 22. It wasn't the same boolit but the same batch. I have never got a 22 BNH reading from my WW lead ever, until I water dropped. I'm sold. Thanks Bob.
 
I tried the lightbulb trick and made a mess, not worth it in my opinion. The heater that Magma sells for the Star has a replaceable element, I bought it and it is easy to set up. I had lathesmith make my dies also and have had no issues.

Setup of the press is simple but adding lube sticks requires a little common sense. I heat the press and when up to temp. you can unscrew the cap and pull the piston. Once you get the new lube stick in and heated, the first dozen or so bullets may have air spaces so just size them again and they will fill with lube. In the past I have cast a full ammo can and let them sit for months before sizing but Patriot says that it is much easied to do it within a few hours. This is because the bullets harden over time.

You can use many different lubes but I bought the red from Magma, they come in packages of ten. I gave away the lube that came with the press, too soft for my liking. the worst part about the Star is mounting it to the heater as the rear screw will only turn an eighth of a turn at a time. Keep the accessories for your setup in a container or bag so they don't get lost. Been there, done that.

The light bulb trick works pretty well but the lube used is critical. Some lubes require more heat than others. You can also used a lower wattage light bulb.
 
I tried the lightbulb trick and made a mess, not worth it in my opinion. The heater that Magma sells for the Star has a replaceable element, I bought it and it is easy to set up. I had lathesmith make my dies also and have had no issues.

Setup of the press is simple but adding lube sticks requires a little common sense. I heat the press and when up to temp. you can unscrew the cap and pull the piston. Once you get the new lube stick in and heated, the first dozen or so bullets may have air spaces so just size them again and they will fill with lube. In the past I have cast a full ammo can and let them sit for months before sizing but Patriot says that it is much easied to do it within a few hours. This is because the bullets harden over time.

You can use many different lubes but I bought the red from Magma, they come in packages of ten. I gave away the lube that came with the press, too soft for my liking. the worst part about the Star is mounting it to the heater as the rear screw will only turn an eighth of a turn at a time. Keep the accessories for your setup in a container or bag so they don't get lost. Been there, done that.

Good stuff.... Common sense was what I was missing when I first went to set up my star.... Unscrewed the top and pulled out what I thought was the plunger assembly, proceeded to load with a stick of lube and replaced everything.... Couldn't imagine why I couldn't get any lube to my die.... Dialed up the heat to max and stilll nothing.... Finally figured out that I needed to reverse the handle to get the actual plunger out (and after digging out all the lube which was now in the spring assembly and everything else in the top works)..... Disassembled and cleaned everything and salvaged what I could from my lube, reloaded (in the right place this time) and was finally able to get it to work....

Suffice to say it was a long day.....[rolleyes]
 
Lots of good info on this thread. The wait time is 3 weeks for the Star. I'll have to order the remaining stuff from Midway. I'll start out with the Carnuba Red and maybe the BAC. Glenn over at White Label recommended the BAC for the 45ACP and 38spl Bullseye loads that I shoot.

Does anyone have the Star on a Dillon Strong mount? Interesting setup. I like the Rock Dock also. I'm closing off my Loading/Casting/Gun room in the basement and am probably going to add a hood to the setup. That way I can do the actual casting indoors and do the smelting outdoors. Maybe the Rock Dock may be a good option as I would like to get a Single Stage Press. I started out on a Hornady LNL Progressive which I really love. Counter space is always an issue. I appreciate all the help and the advice.
 
Lots of good info on this thread. The wait time is 3 weeks for the Star. I'll have to order the remaining stuff from Midway. I'll start out with the Carnuba Red and maybe the BAC. Glenn over at White Label recommended the BAC for the 45ACP and 38spl Bullseye loads that I shoot.

Does anyone have the Star on a Dillon Strong mount? Interesting setup. I like the Rock Dock also. I'm closing off my Loading/Casting/Gun room in the basement and am probably going to add a hood to the setup. That way I can do the actual casting indoors and do the smelting outdoors. Maybe the Rock Dock may be a good option as I would like to get a Single Stage Press. I started out on a Hornady LNL Progressive which I really love. Counter space is always an issue. I appreciate all the help and the advice.

I would not cast in my house; build a shed, that's what I did. The best bullet lube I have ever found was Thompson's "Blue Angel" lube. This stuff is made by David Thompson, a retired Texas LE. He has a web site.
 
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