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Starter gun oppinions needed

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vaccaroja

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I am looking to do some compition target shooting. I have become very fond of the walther p22 with 5 inch barrel. I am looking into this for my first gun. What are your thoughts? I have not tried a lot of other guns. I am looking to use this as my Carry gun as well. I know .22LR is not great for carry but its cheap and should i need to use it i am sure 10 rounds should be plenty assuming i do not miss.
 
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vaccaroja,
I am sure that the P22 is a fun gun for plinking but probably not the best choice for serious target shooting.
The best way to learn about target shooting is to go to a match and see what kind of equipment they are using.
There is a NES competition pistol forum here: http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=37
I'm sure that there are lots of folks who are active competative shooters and would be pleased to show you the ropes.
It's best to pick the right piece of equipment the first time, since handguns are so expensive. Many times you can get a used gun, very reasonable, from a competitor who is upgrading.
You might want to mention what town you live in, in case there is someone who would invite you to attend a match close to home.
Good luck in your search and welcome to NES.
Jack
 
I bought a Walther p22 with the shorter barrel about 6 weeks ago and I think it is a great little practice gun. I have probably put about 700 rounds thru it so far with no problems. You must use high velocity 22LR though - when I first shot it I was using some CCI regular velocity stuff and I had constant failure to ejects and failure to feeds. Since going to high velocity I have not had a single one. As a sort of torture test I have not cleaned the gun since putting the 1st 200 rounds thru it - and it is still going strong.

As far as a target gun I don't know if it is quite what you want though - I can put 40 rounds all in the black at 7 yards - so it is pretty accurate - but I don't think it is at the level of accuracy of something like a Ruger MKIII or any of the other more target oriented .22LR pistols.

I have thought of using the P22 as a carry gun also - because I have gotten pretty accurate with it and because it is so small. You will get a lot of people saying that you should never carry a .22 as a carry gun - but the way I see it what you are doing is a situational thing. For instance if you are attacked by a meth crazed 300 pound ex linebacker you could probably empty all 10 rounds into him and not stop him before he got to you. On the other hand if you were held up by a 100 pound scrawny kid and you could plant a couple of rounds into his eye socket at 10 feet then dead is dead. What the research on defending yourself with a firearm shows is that most of the time just showing the weapon is enough to ward off an attack - in those instances where you actually have to shoot somebody - there are times when a .22 might get the job done - whereas a .40 or .45 is probably almost guaranteed to bring down the bad guy - if you can hit them of course.

If you think about using the P22 as a carry try one out with CCI Stingers - they make a bitchin' muzzle flash that might be enough to scare off any attacker without even having to shoot them. [smile]
 
I own P22 as well. I would recommend it as a great practice/plinking gun, but NOT as a carry gun.
Mine works great with CCI Blazers.
Even if you take the caliber out of the equation, I feel that the P22 is not robust enough for carry. For instance, I hate the damn safeties - they have a habit of turning on at the worst moment. The front sight is only friction attached to the gun. Imagine drawing the gun and having the front sight missing! (I had a similar situation in a training class when I neglected to inspect a newly purchased P99C ). At least in P99C they use a smal screw to thread into the bottom of the sight and hold it in place.
I don't know your budget, but if you are looking for carry/training gun, I would recommend either the P99C in 9mm or the Glock 19 in 9mm. While the ammo is considerably expensive, these guns can be used for self defense with better results than P22.
 
I have a P22 and like it quite a bit but wouldn't consider it for bullseye target shooting or self-defense,it's more of a neat toy to plink* with.If you like the P22,get one and have a lot of fun with it but it simply isn't nearly as accurate as say, a cheaper S&W 22A.It certainly is small enough to be able to conceal well but not only is .22 not the most effective cartridge in terms of ballistics,it isn't the most reliable cartridge and the P22 isn't the most reliable platform.Mine works well,when fed loads it likes,but it isn't reliable enough IMO for _me_ to carry.I would suggest getting a used 22A or Ruger Mk II for ~ $200 and getting something else for CCW.

* my definition of plinking: taping up a target and having fun,not expressly working on tighter groups or any aspect of shooting skills as sometimes,I just want to make noise and shooting .22 tends to not give me bad habits whereas it's harder for me to just " let fly" with a pistol I use for CCW then immediately go back to trying to shoot well with it.Of course what works/doesn't for me doesn't apply to anyone but me.
 
calsdad said:
I bought a Walther p22 with the shorter barrel about 6 weeks ago and I think it is a great little practice gun. I have probably put about 700 rounds thru it so far with no problems. You must use high velocity 22LR though - when I first shot it I was using some CCI regular velocity stuff and I had constant failure to ejects and failure to feeds. Since going to high velocity I have not had a single one. As a sort of torture test I have not cleaned the gun since putting the 1st 200 rounds thru it - and it is still going strong.

As far as a target gun I don't know if it is quite what you want though - I can put 40 rounds all in the black at 7 yards - so it is pretty accurate - but I don't think it is at the level of accuracy of something like a Ruger MKIII or any of the other more target oriented .22LR pistols.

I have thought of using the P22 as a carry gun also - because I have gotten pretty accurate with it and because it is so small. You will get a lot of people saying that you should never carry a .22 as a carry gun - but the way I see it what you are doing is a situational thing. For instance if you are attacked by a meth crazed 300 pound ex linebacker you could probably empty all 10 rounds into him and not stop him before he got to you. On the other hand if you were held up by a 100 pound scrawny kid and you could plant a couple of rounds into his eye socket at 10 feet then dead is dead. What the research on defending yourself with a firearm shows is that most of the time just showing the weapon is enough to ward off an attack - in those instances where you actually have to shoot somebody - there are times when a .22 might get the job done - whereas a .40 or .45 is probably almost guaranteed to bring down the bad guy - if you can hit them of course.

If you think about using the P22 as a carry try one out with CCI Stingers - they make a bitchin' muzzle flash that might be enough to scare off any attacker without even having to shoot them. [smile]
Click to expand...

well as far as not cleaning it goes its not a good idea. I put about 400 rounds through it and got a significant build up of lead in the tip of the barrel from not cleaning it. This was cleaned up with a brush with ease. The only problem I had after the first 200 rounds was a screw that holds the barrel in near the slide came out about half way. As far as a buget goes i am going to have about $2400 soon to spend on pistols and or a rifle. I am looking at a pre-ban gov. .223 colt. I am looking for a pre-ban m4 style rifle. I know i can not buy and or afford a real M4.
 
Let me suggest a different approach.

Define exactly what sport you refer to as "competition target shooting" and we can then make a recommendation that you will not regret.

I can tell you categorically than the Walther P22 is not used by anyone who is even remotely serious about shooting in any recognized, organized pistol target shooting sport.

I often see this mistake of buying a gun then trying to find a sport where it fits. It is usually an expensive mistake.
 
Jose said:
Let me suggest a different approach.

Define exactly what sport you refer to as "competition target shooting" and we can then make a recommendation that you will not regret.

I can tell you categorically than the Walther P22 is not used by anyone who is even remotely serious about shooting in any recognized, organized pistol target shooting sport.

I often see this mistake of buying a gun then trying to find a sport where it fits. It is usually an expensive mistake.
Click to expand...


bullseye shooting... fast and rapid fire.
 
Jose said:
Let me suggest a different approach.

Define exactly what sport you refer to as "competition target shooting" and we can then make a recommendation that you will not regret.

I can tell you categorically than the Walther P22 is not used by anyone who is even remotely serious about shooting in any recognized, organized pistol target shooting sport.

I often see this mistake of buying a gun then trying to find a sport where it fits. It is usually an expensive mistake.
Click to expand...

the walther has done fine at 50 feet in which i have been using no aim point scope, but rather the gun as supplied out of the box. I have been scoring high when at the range. It may not be a target gun but it certanly can hold up to the challenge.
 
vaccaroja said:
bullseye shooting... fast and rapid fire.
Click to expand...

Definitely not the right gun. A Ruger MK II or MK III or Browning Buckmark in target configuration (bull barrel, adjustable rear sight) is a much better choice. A Smith & Wesson Model 617 revolver also would do.

If the $ allow, a Smith & Wesson Model 41 would be very nice.

You do realize that bullseye matches require at least two guns (a 22LR and a 45 ACP), right?
 
our compitition only consists of .22 matches not .45acp and .22


i am not sure you are following me... our leage does not shoot both. I am however familier that there are different leagues out there.
 
vaccaroja said:
well as far as not cleaning it goes its not a good idea. I put about 400 rounds through it and got a significant build up of lead in the tip of the barrel from not cleaning it. This was cleaned up with a brush with ease. The only problem I had after the first 200 rounds was a screw that holds the barrel in near the slide came out about half way. As far as a buget goes i am going to have about $2400 soon to spend on pistols and or a rifle. I am looking at a pre-ban gov. .223 colt. I am looking for a pre-ban m4 style rifle. I know i can not buy and or afford a real M4.
Click to expand...

I realize the not cleaning thing is not exactly what could be called proper procedure - the buzz on the multiple forums I went to before I bought the P22 however was that the gun was prone to jamming, misfeeds and failures to eject. What I wanted to do was satisfy myself that if it was fed the right ammo (high velocity) - the gun would function properly even if it was abused a little - and it has. I would not advocate going 600-700 rounds without cleaning - but the gun went about that many with no cleaning - was taken to the range straight out of the trunk of my car on a 10 degree day - and although the first couple of rounds had problems feeding and ejecting - after that it shot another 100 rounds or so with no problems. While this might not be Glock level abuse ( I did not drag the gun behind my car on the way up to the range or dump it in a mud puddle once I got there) - it is enough to satisfy me that the gun is going to be pretty reliable.
 
calsdad said:
I realize the not cleaning thing is not exactly what could be called proper procedure - the buzz on the multiple forums I went to before I bought the P22 however was that the gun was prone to jamming, misfeeds and failures to eject. What I wanted to do was satisfy myself that if it was fed the right ammo (high velocity) - the gun would function properly even if it was abused a little - and it has. I would not advocate going 600-700 rounds without cleaning - but the gun went about that many with no cleaning - was taken to the range straight out of the trunk of my car on a 10 degree day - and although the first couple of rounds had problems feeding and ejecting - after that it shot another 100 rounds or so with no problems. While this might not be Glock level abuse ( I did not drag the gun behind my car on the way up to the range or dump it in a mud puddle once I got there) - it is enough to satisfy me that the gun is going to be pretty reliable.
Click to expand...


i certainly agree about the cleaning thing.. Do you think its worth the money to buy the extra 5" barrel after the fact? I have had occasional miss feeds and miss fires.. but after a thorough cleaning and switching to copper plated ammo I have had less build up and better performance.
 
ok so hear is what i have to work with for my next gun..

$2100 roughly. suggestions? I am looking for an M4 style rifle and or m16. A pre-band gov. colt possibly. I have found one so far.
 
vaccaroja said:
i certainly agree about the cleaning thing.. Do you think its worth the money to buy the extra 5" barrel after the fact? I have had occasional miss feeds and miss fires.. but after a thorough cleaning and switching to copper plated ammo I have had less build up and better performance.
Click to expand...


I have thought about getting the 5" barrel - but I haven't bought one yet. I bought the p22 to practice with - for me the short barrel seems to work good for what I want it for. I think the 5" barrel is about $135 if purchased separately - I guess if you wanted to make the gun a little more accurate to do some target shooting the $135.00 is cheaper than having to buy a Ruger MK something. I have mostly used the copper plated ammo in my p22 - which is maybe why I haven't had a huge buildup of lead. During that 600-700 round cycle where I did not clean the gun I only remember having maybe one or two misfeeds or failures to eject. This was all done with Federal copper coated ammo. Most of the gunk in the gun was in the chamber - which is probably why when the gun was cold that last day I started getting the failures. Overall I am very happy with the P22 - especially considering the negative remarks I heard about it before I bought it.
 
vaccaroja said:
ok so hear is what i have to work with for my next gun..

$2100 roughly. suggestions? I am looking for an M4 style rifle and or m16. A pre-band gov. colt possibly. I have found one so far.
Click to expand...

That's good $$ to work with!

For under a grand you can get a National Match A2 from AR15sales.com. With the rest of the money, invest in a 1911 (decide for which discipline before you buy) or upgrade your .22.

What league do you shoot .22 in? I shoot in Worcester County Pistol League.

Also, if you are interested, there is a "postal" bullseye shoot going on here at NES. See the link in my signature below. There are monthly prizes. No entrance fee except joining NES, which you've done. Let's see what that P22 can do!
 
matt said:
That's good $$ to work with!

For under a grand you can get a National Match A2 from AR15sales.com. With the rest of the money, invest in a 1911 (decide for which discipline before you buy) or upgrade your .22.

What league do you shoot .22 in? I shoot in Worcester County Pistol League.

Also, if you are interested, there is a "postal" bullseye shoot going on here at NES. See the link in my signature below. There are monthly prizes. No entrance fee except joining NES, which you've done. Let's see what that P22 can do!
Click to expand...

i shoot with the ames pistol team.. well i am going to start shooting with them. I have been practicing for a couple days now.
 
Jose said:
OK. Then any of the rimfire choices I mentioned will work fine.

I guess you could use a P22. It's just that I think you will be disappointed by its performance.
Click to expand...

Likely he'll out grow it, but after that it'll be a fun gun to have in the box and to introduce new shooters with. I bought a used Ruger MkII for my fisrt .22. Then I upgraded to the Browning Target Buckmark you mentioned (hard to find here in MA). I thought about selling the ruger, but it is a great gun for getting people started shooting as I don't have a red dot on it. The P22 will serve the same purpose for him.

Matt
 
Matt, good point. Any gun is better than no gun.

I think we have established that any 22LR handgun is simply not a viable choice as a self-defense weapon. A 38 Special snub nose can be had just as cheaply and is significantly more effective with the right ammo.
 
The P22 is a lousy choice for bullseye. The barrel is mounted to the frame insert and the sights are mounted on the slide. The only connection between the two is the rails and the gun isn't exactly built tight. The slide is also Zinc not steel so I don't trust it to wear well against the the steel rails.

You'll notice that all serious rimfire bullseye guns (S&W 41, Ruger MKIII Government, Pardini, Walther, Buckmark) have the sights mounted on the barrel and frame which are fixed in relation to each other. There is good reason for this. If the sights move relative to the barrel between shots there is no guarantee that they will lock up the same relative to the barrel each time.

The bottom rung on the Bullseye chain is the Ruger. Just as accurate, but the trigger and ergonomics are somewhat lacking. Next is the S&W Model 41 with Pardini at the top.

For less money you could get a Ruger...
 
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You can get some good information about .22 cal target pistols used for NRA competition. Check out this link.

It is from the bullseye pistol website. If you want to shoot competition, stick with a competition gun, unless you already have another gun. You will find that the competition shooting will go much better and you will get a lot more enjoyment if you have the right gear.

B
 
vaccaroja said:
the walther has done fine at 50 feet in which i have been using no aim point scope, but rather the gun as supplied out of the box. I have been scoring high when at the range. It may not be a target gun but it certanly can hold up to the challenge.
Click to expand...

If you're looking to use that gun in target matches, keep an eye on this guy's blog: he's developing a Mousegun postal match. Here's his first post on the subject.

Sounds like fun... once he gets all the rules worked out we may have to try this up here. I know JayG has lots of mouse guns...
 
I would hold onto that money and put some time in with the guys at Ames and then spend it. They can show you in their scores what works and let you try stuff. My friend on the Ames team shoots a Pardini and loves it.
 
matt said:
Kill joy...

But it is good advice none the less.
Click to expand...

Another reason I say that is that if he has a pistol team to join, they'd have the best line on gear. The best deals on competition guns are never posted, they are passed between competitors and you hear about them at the match or at practice. Somebody is always upgrading.
 
Today:
vaccaroja said:
well as far as not cleaning it goes its not a good idea. I put about 400 rounds through it and got a significant build up of lead in the tip of the barrel from not cleaning it. This was cleaned up with a brush with ease. The only problem I had after the first 200 rounds was a screw that holds the barrel in near the slide came out about half way.
Click to expand...

One Month ago:
vaccaroja said:
I am looking to do some compition target shooting. I have become very fond of the walther p22 with 5 inch barrel. I am looking into this for my first gun. What are your thoughts? I have not tried a lot of other guns. I am looking to use this as my Carry gun as well. I know .22LR is not great for carry but its cheap and should i need to use it i am sure 10 rounds should be plenty assuming i do not miss.
Click to expand...


He already bought it. He's going to shoot it in the NES postal match.
 

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