Springfield proposes to impound & sell cars found to contain "illegal guns"

ARV

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I've been hearing about this for the past 3 mornings on 102.1 during the ride to work.

Springfield City Councilor Michael Fenton: Crime bad for business, gun violence 'scary'

SPRINGFIELD – Crime is bad for business, and gun violence is scary. Not many people would argue with those points, which were hammered home by a Springfield official at Monday night's City Council meeting.
"Guns are scary and people don't like to hear about gun violence in their cities," Ward 2 Councilor Michael Fenton told 22News.
Fenton and Ward 7 Councilor Timothy C. Allen are sponsoring a series of proposals aimed at holstering gun violence by cracking down on illegal firearms in Springfield. To that end, the councilors support creation of a citywide gun squad with authority to impound and sell vehicles in which illegal guns are found. They also support the concept of establishing a special gun court to focus on gun-related crimes in Springfield.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/04/crime_bad_for_business_gun_vio.html

Please note, no where does it say that the OWNER of the vehicle has to be in possession of the stolen gun, or even in the vehicle.

"Crime is bad for business"™ "gun violence is scary"™ & "Guns are scary™ are trade marks of Springfield City Council, and moonbats everywhere.
 
The issue here is that there is too much emphasis on "Gun" when they talk about "Gun VIOLENCE". Guns themselves are not scary, but yes, VIOLENCE involving the USE of a firearm is scary. The city counsel's idea is not a bad one, to impound cars used in these crimes. Why not, nothing else seems to work. Maybe the thought of lossing your whip will deter them ALITTLE bit. BUT knowing what I know, it won't. SOOO why not make some money for the city by impounding and selling the vehicles. This is done with nacotics arrests all the time, which in turn raises money for narcotics funds. I think everyone here should be in support of any effort to curb CRIMINALS from committing crime. This has nothing to do with LAW ABIDING CITIZENS from possessing firearms and actually saves some tax money by raising money to fund these campaigns. My 2cents.....
 
The issue here is that there is too much emphasis on "Gun" when they talk about "Gun VIOLENCE". Guns themselves are not scary, but yes, VIOLENCE involving the USE of a firearm is scary. The city counsel's idea is not a bad one, to impound cars used in these crimes. Why not, nothing else seems to work. Maybe the thought of lossing your whip will deter them ALITTLE bit. BUT knowing what I know, it won't. SOOO why not make some money for the city by impounding and selling the vehicles. This is done with nacotics arrests all the time, which in turn raises money for narcotics funds. I think everyone here should be in support of any effort to curb CRIMINALS from committing crime. This has nothing to do with LAW ABIDING CITIZENS from possessing firearms and actually saves some tax money by raising money to fund these campaigns. My 2cents.....

So, your saying if you let a friend borrow your hooptie, and he picks up someone else, who has an illegally possessed gun with him and they get stopped...that your fine with your vehicle being seized, impounded, and sold?

ETA: The part about narcotics is different. They sell the cars, because they were bought with "drug money"...they are the product of ill gotten gains. I also think they way they can impound and seize things like that because they deem them "drug related" with no due process is BS.
 
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The issue here is that there is too much emphasis on "Gun" when they talk about "Gun VIOLENCE". Guns themselves are not scary, but yes, VIOLENCE involving the USE of a firearm is scary. The city counsel's idea is not a bad one, to impound cars used in these crimes. Why not, nothing else seems to work. Maybe the thought of lossing your whip will deter them ALITTLE bit. BUT knowing what I know, it won't. SOOO why not make some money for the city by impounding and selling the vehicles. This is done with nacotics arrests all the time, which in turn raises money for narcotics funds. I think everyone here should be in support of any effort to curb CRIMINALS from committing crime. This has nothing to do with LAW ABIDING CITIZENS from possessing firearms and actually saves some tax money by raising money to fund these campaigns. My 2cents.....

I wonder how you'd feel if your car was stolen, the bad guys were caught in it with an illegal gun after committing a "violent" crime, and it was summarily impounded and sold. Yup, keep supporting stupidity and see how far that gets you.[rolleyes]
 
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I am all for this. I want more gun laws. I mean these gun laws are what helped me to have a restricted LTC in 1st place. Keeps my family and I nice and safe. Thank you. Where do I sign?
 
Remember, many people who have forefieited assets were later found not guilty but STILL end up losing property due to the "special" seizure rules. Just another shakedown scheme to line the coffers of a bankrupt city.
 
Nevermind what the definition of an "illegal gun" is. One that a dealer cannot transfer, or not possessed with the proper papers. Can you smell another 2a case?
 
[banghead]
The issue here is that there is too much emphasis on "Gun" when they talk about "Gun VIOLENCE". Guns themselves are not scary, but yes, VIOLENCE involving the USE of a firearm is scary. The city counsel's idea is not a bad one, to impound cars used in these crimes. Why not, nothing else seems to work. Maybe the thought of lossing your whip will deter them ALITTLE bit. BUT knowing what I know, it won't. SOOO why not make some money for the city by impounding and selling the vehicles. This is done with nacotics arrests all the time, which in turn raises money for narcotics funds. I think everyone here should be in support of any effort to curb CRIMINALS from committing crime. This has nothing to do with LAW ABIDING CITIZENS from possessing firearms and actually saves some tax money by raising money to fund these campaigns. My 2cents.....

So, an unlicensed driver, gets pulled over at night. Said officer asks for driver to step out for a field sobriety, "just to check"....it's for your safety, afterall, right? Said driver spent the day at the range having a good time with fellow law-abiding citizens. Unbeknownst(sp?) to the driver, there's a .22lr spent casing stuck in the treads of his shoe. According to Massachusetts, inert casings are still considered ammunition and fall under MGL 140 S121. That being said, this driver's vehicle is now forfeit, because he's a criminal and guilty of a gun crime.

I understand completely...
 
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I wonder how you'd feel if your car was stolen, the bad guys were caught in it with an illegal gun after committing a "violent" crime, and it was summarily impounded and sold. Yup, keep supporting stupidity and see how far that gets you.[rolleyes]

+1...yet, the Agenda Machine will ignore this in lieu of getting the chance to validate their paycheck with more laws that do.................uh, hmm...........I'm sure they do something.
 
Do a search!

Really? Your claim is so ridiculous on its face. In "most" states, you don't need a permission slip from the gov't to own a firearm. So what exactly is an illegal gun? On what grounds would they have to steal somebody's car for it in that case?

You made the allegation, So thus you have the obligation to validate it. Your hand has been called.

Exactly.
 
The issue here is that there is too much emphasis on "Gun" when they talk about "Gun VIOLENCE". Guns themselves are not scary, but yes, VIOLENCE involving the USE of a firearm is scary. The city counsel's idea is not a bad one, to impound cars used in these crimes. Why not, nothing else seems to work. Maybe the thought of lossing your whip will deter them ALITTLE bit. BUT knowing what I know, it won't. SOOO why not make some money for the city by impounding and selling the vehicles. This is done with nacotics arrests all the time, which in turn raises money for narcotics funds. I think everyone here should be in support of any effort to curb CRIMINALS from committing crime. This has nothing to do with LAW ABIDING CITIZENS from possessing firearms and actually saves some tax money by raising money to fund these campaigns. My 2cents.....

It's a completely ****ing stupid idea if it involves seizing assets without due process. This asset forfeiture business is its own little beast. (See also: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...vil-Forfeiture-in-Tewksbury?highlight=caswell ) for a recent example. It's one that mostly gets to evade due process- so you're "cool" with people's stuff being taken from them without full legal justification, apparently. I can think of at least several scenarios off the top of my head where this law would not work as intended. (but the authorities would still push/enforce it anyways, in the interest of racking up a score).

Attempting to fix problems by inventing laws that WILL create other problems is generally absurd- and this "ethos" you are espousing is a big part of the reason this country is in the mess it is in, WRT civil liberties.

-Mike
 
It's a completely ****ing stupid idea if it involves seizing assets without due process. This asset forfeiture business is its own little beast. (See also: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...vil-Forfeiture-in-Tewksbury?highlight=caswell ) for a recent example. It's one that mostly gets to evade due process- so you're "cool" with people's stuff being taken from them without full legal justification, apparently. I can think of at least several scenarios off the top of my head where this law would not work as intended. (but the authorities would still push/enforce it anyways, in the interest of racking up a score).

Attempting to fix problems by inventing laws that WILL create other problems is generally absurd- and this "ethos" you are espousing is a big part of the reason this country is in the mess it is in, WRT civil liberties.

-Mike

NOt only that, but is username "FSUsoldier" is a gang reference. You would think he would be blatantly against this kinda crap
 
Timmy Allen and Michael Fenton aren't city council's brightest....I hope. Allen is also one of the councilors that voted for more community oversight of the Springfield PD.
 
NOt only that, but is username "FSUsoldier" is a gang reference. You would think he would be blatantly against this kinda crap

It has been pointed out to me that FSU is some sort of gang. I did not know this when I acquired my nickname but trust me there is no gang affiliation.
 
[banghead]


So, an unlicensed driver, gets pulled over at night. Said officer asks for driver to step out for a field sobriety, "just to check"....it's for your safety, afterall, right? Said driver spent the day at the range having a good time with fellow law-abiding citizens. Unbeknownst(sp?) to the driver, there's a .22lr spent casing stuck in the treads of his shoe. According to Massachusetts, inert casings are still considered ammunition and fall under MGL 140 S121. That being said, this driver's vehicle is now forfeit, because he's a criminal and guilty of a gun crime.

I understand completely...

An unlicensed operator does not need to be drunk to be asked to step out of the car so you are making the scenario more complicated than it needs to be but I understand your concern.
 
It's a completely ****ing stupid idea if it involves seizing assets without due process. This asset forfeiture business is its own little beast. (See also: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...vil-Forfeiture-in-Tewksbury?highlight=caswell ) for a recent example. It's one that mostly gets to evade due process- so you're "cool" with people's stuff being taken from them without full legal justification, apparently. I can think of at least several scenarios off the top of my head where this law would not work as intended. (but the authorities would still push/enforce it anyways, in the interest of racking up a score).

Attempting to fix problems by inventing laws that WILL create other problems is generally absurd- and this "ethos" you are espousing is a big part of the reason this country is in the mess it is in, WRT civil liberties.

-Mike

To the best of my knowledge the seizure isn't finalized until after the conviction in court. Until that time it is held for evidence of the case. I'm sure I will be, but don't quote me on that.
 
So the seizure isn't finalized for 3, 6, 9 months or more. The car still sits in impound, the owner is still w/o their property. And while it sits in impound tires go flat, batteries die, and the OWNER who potentially did nothing wrong but loan the car to a friend, have it stolen, give a friend a ride, whatever, is w/o wheels. And this makes sense HOW?
 
So, your saying if you let a friend borrow your hooptie, and he picks up someone else, who has an illegally possessed gun with him and they get stopped...that your fine with your vehicle being seized, impounded, and sold?

ETA: The part about narcotics is different. They sell the cars, because they were bought with "drug money"...they are the product of ill gotten gains. I also think they way they can impound and seize things like that because they deem them "drug related" with no due process is BS.

First off, none of MY friends will be picking up someone with an "illegal" firearm. I don't know who you associate with so maybe you will have that problem. Second, how is said illegal firearm located by said police when they are stopped? criminal activity? well shame on you then for letting said "friend" use your vehicle for criminal activity, get better friends.
 
I wonder how you'd feel if your car was stolen, the bad guys were caught in it with an illegal gun after committing a "violent" crime, and it was summarily impounded and sold. Yup, keep supporting stupidity and see how far that gets you.[rolleyes]

If your car is stolen and you properly reported it then to the best of my knowledge this scenario wouldn't happen. But good "what if" though, I'm sure there will be more.
 
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