Springfield City Council cuts $800,000 for police shooting range lease

new guy

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Everything he said in that post is correct.
No, it isn’t.

His first point is that it doesn’t sound like a done deal because of a word chosen by a journalist, overlooking the statement in the article by the city’s own CFO saying it was a done deal and the city would have to pay. His second and fourth points are baseless guesses as evidenced by his use of the word “likely” in each. I’m guessing he’s never actually negotiated a single contract with a federal, state, city or town government.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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No, it isn’t.

His first point is that it doesn’t sound like a done deal because of a word chosen by a journalist, overlooking the statement in the article by the city’s own CFO saying it was a done deal and the city would have to pay. His second and fourth points are baseless guesses as evidenced by his use of the word “likely” in each. I’m guessing he’s never actually negotiated a single contract with a federal, state, city or town government.
Negotiated is not finalized.

When I was brand new in sales, I negotiated a nice deal with a 40% discount, with a bank in the Caribbean. Then it moved to procurement and the dude said "I want 50% discount or we dont buy".

That's when I learned to always ask the guy if procurement will push back, if they will, I refuse to negotiate pricing before it arrives to procurement.

Nothing is finalized until the paperwork is signed.
 

new guy

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Negotiated is not finalized.

When I was brand new in sales, I negotiated a nice deal with a 40% discount, with a bank in the Caribbean. Then it moved to procurement and the dude said "I want 50% discount or we dont buy".

That's when I learned to always ask the guy if procurement will push back, if they will, I refuse to negotiate pricing before it arrives to procurement.

Nothing is finalized until the paperwork is signed.
Legal lessons from a salesman. I love it.
 

groundscrapers

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Its the smith and wesson academy facility. It was a very specialized range that cost a F ton of money to build and maintain. I can easily see a lease for that amount including the build out of offices.
 

new guy

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If you hate me because of my career choices, then the person with the problem is you. Out with it. Lay on all your vitriol.
Hate you for your career choices? I’m a f***ing lawyer too if you haven’t picked up on that. The world is full of us, i just happen to be one who has been negotiating contracts with both private clients and foreign, federal, state and local government clients his entire career.
 

C. Stockwell

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Hate you for your career choices? I’m a f***ing lawyer too. The world is full of us.
Doesn't sound like it.

If you're legit, you could've easily replied way back on page one with a simple "I disagree, based on XYZ situation." You don't even have to give a personal example. Just say "I doubt that city counsel would enter into an ADR clause for a lease."

Nope. You wanted to pick a fight.
 

ccm75

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Yes, cutting funds for police training is a solid idea.
Should really help..............[thinking] The inmates are now running the asylum.
 

mcb

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something smells funny around here.


the range was sold for 750k now it’s being leased to the city for 800k a year?

So... who is getting laid and who is getting paid?

You could build a nice municipal range for all to enjoy with 2-3 of those 800k payment. I’m sure there is plenty of abandoned or cheap property out that way. Why does it seem every town and city in MA is desperate to go bankrupt?
 

new guy

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And did anybody actually read the article and see this part, which OP was kind enough to quote?

Not funding the firing range would be “penny wise and pound foolish,” said Timothy J. Plant, the city’s chief administrative and financial officer. He said the city would need to pursue funds within the budget for the lease agreement, as it has been finalized and renovations in the building have begun. The council’s approval was not needed to approve the lease, he said.
One of the city’s executive officers is publicly conceding that they’ll have to pay in any event. That should say it all.
 

new guy

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Doesn't sound like it.

If you're legit, you could've easily replied way back on page one with a simple "I disagree, based on XYZ situation." You don't even have to give a personal example. Just say "I doubt that city counsel would enter into an ADR clause for a lease."

Nope. You wanted to pick a fight.
What do you want, a LinkedIn invite?
 

Woodstock

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It's a backdoor way to turn the cops into social workers. In MA every cop has to qualify at least annually, and maybe twice a year now. No range, no way to qualify.
 

LoginName

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Would you two either get a room or stop it.
See what you two have done!

Now you've gotten management involved, and without having anyone asking to speak with him (at least not to the best of my knowledge).
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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FIFY,

Trump was a master at this in paying contractors. Want to get paid? Settle for 80% or get a court order, I've decided I am entitled to a discount,
That was bullsh*t and he could get away with it because the little guy needed the money and didnt have the resources to go to court. Trump was a major d*ck to his contractors.
 

Rob Boudrie

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That was bullsh*t and he could get away with it because the little guy needed the money and didnt have the resources to go to court. Trump was a major d*ck to his contractors.
Exactly why deals are not done until money changes hands.

It's the Walmart vendor effect - being such a big name suppliers think they have it made when they sell to you, then screwing them on price. It's not unusual for a seller to meet with a Walmart buyer at renewal time looking for a small price increase only to hear Walmart say "We've decided on an x% price reduction take it or leave it.". Even with that well known reputation, Walmart is still in a strong enough position to be able to charge potential vendors an application fee.
 

new guy

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The litigation discount is business everywhere, unfortunately, it just takes a dickhead to make it his SOP. You see it pop up all over, from sales/collections to employment situations. One party knows that the other isn't going to bother going to court over $10k/30k/50k/etc. so they set their demands accordingly.

Exactly why deals are not done until money changes hands.
And for those that can't - such as service agreements billed T&M - credit checks become more important, and some companies bake the losses into their margin/accounting expectations.
 

Rob Boudrie

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The other interesting business deal is in consulting as a subcontractor - The contract may say 30 days, but the customer will only pay you when his customer pays him. Try to enforce the 30 day deadline, and you may get paid on time ... but you will never get another job from that customer. I know from friends in the civil engineering industry that this is considered "normal" even with the big consulting houses.
And for those that can't - such as service agreements billed T&M - credit checks become more important, and some companies bake the losses into their margin/accounting expectations.
And if you are a "little guy" certain professions (lawyers, prostitutes, and others) will require advance payment.
 

new guy

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The other interesting business deal is in consulting as a subcontractor - The contract may say 30 days, but the customer will only pay you when his customer pays him. Try to enforce the 30 day deadline, and you may get paid on time ... but you will never get another job from that customer. I know from friends in the civil engineering industry that this is considered "normal" even with the big consulting houses.

And if you are a "little guy" certain professions (lawyers, prostitutes, and others) will require advance payment.
We're a consultancy that does plenty of pay when paid deals with subs but that's always laid out in the terms. If terms are 30 days it's because we're marking you way up and will take the risk on getting stiffed. If it's pass through you'll get yours after the client pays us for your time.

If you're a client that's an individual or that has shitty credit you're giving us a retainer big enough to cover a couple of billing cycles so that we can see problems coming and terminate before we're in the hole.
 
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Guyute

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It's a backdoor way to turn the cops into social workers. In MA every cop has to qualify at least annually, and maybe twice a year now. No range, no way to qualify.
Or there is something fishy about spending $800,000 a year and $16 million over the course of a lease on a property that sold for $750,000
 
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