Source of AG Banning Out-of-State Ammo Sales!

[Fooped]

My point was that WE who were not on the call do not know if he even had the opportunity to speak with anyone corporately, or if he was just stonewalled. My understanding of the call to the store is that he was simply told that there was nothing that they could do and that he would need to call corporate.

As to the rights of a million+ gun owners being more important that one small business owner's welfare....that will make for an interesting discussion when I get back from lunch...

And OUR collective point here is that whatever the outcome was of the phone calls to BPS, at NO time should he have "dropped a dime" in effort to halt BPS's sale of Glocks et al. BPS most likely would have fought this on their own and possibly won, given their resources and the flimsy AG "regs".

Moreover, as others have pointed out on this thread, BPS really isn't direct competition for Ted, as his prices are lower on almost everything and most of us enjoy going to our local/regular gun store and shooting the breeze with folks we like.

And BTW, I own a small business that competes with a HUGE retailer every day, so I feel like I'm qualified to speak on this topic. You don't see me ratting out (company's name withheld) when they price a TV below MAP and cut my balls off. It's part of doing business in the free market.

 

[dwarven1]

As to the rights of a million+ gun owners being more important that one small business owner's welfare....that will make for an interesting discussion when I get back from lunch...

Think of it this way... which do you think is the better business decision:

Being known as the "rat" who dropped a dime on a new retailer because he was worried about competition

or​

Being known as the dealer who got the "big gun" to take on and break the stupid AG's regs?

I'll give you ONE guess which would absolutely explode his business - which one would have people coming from all over the state to support him because of his stance.

You figure it out.

 

[Bassturd]

Bassturd, feel free to give Ted all your business . . . I don't tell others what to do, only relating what I was told and what decision I made personally.

Hey man...I am not trying to tell anyone what to do. I have no stake in this at all and really don't care where anyone shops. I just think the guy is getting a bad rap and only one side of the story's being told. People are free to make up their own minds on it, and I am sure that most people are going to come down where you are. To each their own and all that.

 

[Bassturd]

The sale of an person who would buy an M&P at the best price he could find locally but for the fact that he could buy a Glock at full retail from BP.

That is the point. People had money to spend, and rather than spending it on things at many stores they were spending it on Glocks at Bass Pro.

Like I need to make the case of money to spend burning holes in people's pockets around here.

 

[terraformer]

I don't think that any of the MA dealers expected the non-MA dealers/distributors reactions to be "screw MA, we won't even ship to MA FFLs!" . . . which I understand to be the case (including an admission to me from Ted himself). My understanding is that some out-of-state sources will not ship even to MA Dealers . . . I don't know how rampant that is, but it has to be a PITA for local dealers too.

If this is the case, it jibes with things I hear about the way distributers treat their customers here in the PRM. If sources of product are drying up for FFLs through normal channels, then it only stands to reason (S & D) that those still willing to sell to MA will raise their prices. It is supposedly why we only get night sights on Sigs now (which costs us $50-$100 more per gun) and other such BS crap.

 

[EddieCoyle]

See, that's the thing...he called the BPS store, and after having no luck there he tried BPS corporate. In essence he got told to get lost.

If they wouldn't talk to him about it at all, then what's the guy supposed to do?

He's supposed to mind his own f-ing business.

If he thought it through, he'd've let them keep it up. Look at BP's prices sometime. You can find better prices at small shops everywhere. If they had gone on selling Glocks, HK's, etc, for a while before the AG got to them, they would've been much more likely to fight, and knock this stupid house of cards down once and for all. Then the small shops would've been able to undercut BP's prices.

 

[Fooped]

He's supposed to mind his own f-ing business.

If he thought it through, he'd've let them keep it up. Look at BP's prices sometime. You can find better prices at small shops everywhere. If they had gone on selling Glocks, HK's, etc, for a while before the AG got to them, they would've been much more likely to fight, and knock this stupid house of cards down once and for all. Then the small shops would've been able to undercut BP's prices.

+1

Which is exactly what I (and others) have been trying to say all along. We would have most likely benefited from this in one form or another. At the very least there would be more of these guns in-state, and the secondary market pricing would have corrected a bit.

 

[Bassturd]

He's supposed to mind his own f-ing business.

If he thought it through, he'd've let them keep it up. Look at BP's prices sometime. You can find better prices at small shops everywhere. If they had gone on selling Glocks, HK's, etc, for a while before the AG got to them, they would've been much more likely to fight, and knock this stupid house of cards down once and for all. Then the small shops would've been able to undercut BP's prices.

Part of the fun of the whole internet thing is that people get to post up thier "Well, if that happened to me, I would have....." posts. It's very easy to condemn someone that made a decision to act in a situation when you have not been in their shoes in a similar situation. That is really what I am trying to say here. I just don't know that others would have acted differently as they claim.

This is just like people that want to tell everyone else that they should lawyer up to go into the Canton (pick your black town) PD when applying because that is their only chance of getting an unrestricted Class A in one of those towns. Nobody wants to talk about the success rates of these ventures because they are low, but people are quick to tell others how they should have dropped some cash to get it done, even if that came at the expense of getting blacklisted at said local PD. It's easy to be cavalier with someone else's problem.

For all that people want to say what Bass Pro would and would not have done, they have just as much money now and just as much to lose by not selling Glocks as they did when this all went down. They don't choose to fight it. Anyone claiming that their selling enough Glocks to have the AG come down on their head being motivation for them to fight the state in court really isn't think it through IMO. Bass Pro doesn't want to go through that expense. They will never sell enough Glocks to make it worth their while. It's a bottom line business.

Thinking that they would have swept in as a white knight of gun rights in MA is a pipe dream.

I think I have made all the point I can make on this topic. Moving on...

 

[Len-2A Training]

I just think the guy is getting a bad rap and only one side of the story's being told.

As a matter of fact:

- Ted could have joined NES (he reads it but I don't think he ever registered) and told his side of the story himself.

- Ted did ask a third party to post Ted's side of the story back when it happened. If you dig back deep enough in the BP thread you might find it.

- You are coming to this party late, it's already been hashed out to death . . . and the story you are telling does NOT jive with what many of us remember hearing from Ted at the time.

That is the point. People had money to spend, and rather than spending it on things at many stores they were spending it on Glocks at Bass Pro.

Well, if I was told the truth at BP (the morning after the grand opening . . . I went back to buy a Buckmark, they refused to sell to me), they sold a GRAND TOTAL OF FOUR GLOCKS on opening night!!

I said that the prices were obscenely high and I guess most were kicking tires but not laying out the green. Opening night I was there for ~2 hours and didn't see any Glocks actually being sold.

Ted had nothing to worry about if he had minded his business. He created his own problems.

I have seen many vendors selling LE/MIL marked hi-caps at MA gun shows, I've never felt compelled to drop a dime on them. In fact there was a MA SP Trooper in full uniform 10' away at one such show . . . everyone gets to make their own decision to exploit a situation, ignore a situation or be a RAT and try to police the world.

 

[Bassturd]

- You are coming to this party late, it's already been hashed out to death . . . and the story you are telling does NOT jive with what many of us remember hearing from Ted at the time.

I can only work with the information I have. If I find myself to be wrong I am not the type that can't admit it. This is the version of the story I have heard, and have heard it from a few sources.

I have nothing vested in where people shop regardless. Not until I open my own store

 

[EddieCoyle]

Part of the fun of the whole internet thing is that people get to post up thier "Well, if that happened to me, I would have....." posts. It's very easy to condemn someone that made a decision to act in a situation when you have not been in their shoes in a similar situation.

Bulls**t. What I posted is exactly what I would've done, and it's what I have done in similar situations. I've been in marketing for almost 30 years, and in that time I've learned to think of how things are going to affect my business in both the short and long term.

Here's a masturbatory self-quote from the original thread on this topic (because I don't feel like retyping it):

OK, I'm going to chime in here because I'm a marketing guy and over the last 27 years I've operated (successfully) on both ends of the big/small company continuum. This is going to be a long post.

You make some interesting points, but let's think this through. On your 2nd point "knowingly selling firearms I cannot" - If I was a competing small local retailer with a brain, I'd realize that there were huge benefits that I could realize by letting this practice go on as long as possible.

Let's say the big box store (BBS) is allowed to continue for a few more weeks, sells a whole bunch more non-EOPS firearms, and then gets whacked with huge fines. There are there are three possible results:

1. The BBS pays the huge fines and probably does what every other BBS in Mass has done: Stops selling handguns. If they decide to keep selling EOPS handguns, they've been hurt financially. I win either way.
2. The BBS fights the AG and spends a bundle of money on legal fees, and wins. Now I'll be able to sell the same guns. I know that I can compete with them on price. (This is true - I've looked at their prices)
3. The BBS fights the AG, spends big money on legal fees, and loses. If this happens, they almost certainly will decide to stop selling handguns in Mass. Even if they decide to continue selling EOPS handguns, my competitor has been hurt financially, and I know I can compete on price.

While all of this is going on, I call the BBS patriotic, pretend that I like what they're doing, and put up an end cap full of Glock and XD mags and KKM replacement barrels right in front of my door.

To your second point - "potentially undercutting my prices and offering things I can't" - I'll need to find a way to continue to be competitive anyway - regardless of the "non-EOPS guns thing".

One of the big advantages a small place has over a BBS is "agility".

If 5 people walk into a BBS and ask for an item that they don't stock, the corporate office is not going to begin buying it. I can, and I'll be sure to feature it in my next ad and on my website.

Speaking of websites - I'll update mine often, and make sure that my used gun inventory is updated daily. Who here doesn't check Four Seasons or Collectors regularly? A BBS can't do this.

Every night when I close my shop, I'll stop in at the BBS for a half hour or so and check things out. I'll watch what they have, and stock what they don't carry. I'll provide services that they can't (training classes, custom ordering, etc).

I'd keep an eye out for good deals on small wholesale lots from a variety of suppliers (closeouts, gov't auction lots of brass, ammo cans, etc). The BBS won't do this. When I find them, they'll be featured prominently on my website.

I'd hit this board every night to watch the pulse of my customer base, and be ready to adapt quickly.

I'd belong to every local gun club and sponsor/host as many events as I could. If I got together with my S&W rep to host "The Eddie's Gun Shop and NortheastShooters.com Smith & Wesson Day" at the Shirley Rod and Gun Club during the tax free weekend, where you could try out a bunch of S&W stuff and get special deals, how many people would show up? 100? 200? Shit, maybe I can get together with my local dealer and make this happen.

The bottom line is that he was in a no-lose situation and he screwed it up. As my cousin Fat Paulie told me years ago, "Jimmy, nobody ever got in trouble by keeping their f**king mouth shut."

My cousin Paulie is a wise man.

 

[drgrant]

Part of the fun of the whole internet thing is that people get to post up thier "Well, if that happened to me, I would have....." posts. It's very easy to condemn someone that made a decision to act in a situation when you have not been in their shoes in a similar situation.

What situation? Was the rat really in a "situation" other than one of his own delusional creation? Hint: When BPS opened up, none of the other dealers/FFLs in MA really even cared- so to them it was a total non concern, they didn't run out and say OMG I HAFTA CALL THE AG NOW CUZ DIS POWERHOUSE BOX STORE SELLING OVERPRICED HANDGUNS IS GONNA PUT ME OUT OF BIDNESS!!!! OH NOES!!!!! THE HORROR!"

-Mike

 

[rl688]

so every one should just boycott the fing guys shop and watch him go under. that way it his own falt for not minding his own p's and q's that is it

 

[CrossFrire]

I've read the posts from people who firmly believe that they KNOW what happened and who said what to who and when.
Nothing I or anyone else says will every change their minds.
I am not telling anyone they should do business with Ted or not, you are entitled to you opinion. The rest of America is still a free country in some very limited aspects Mass allows some minor freedoms.
Everyone can blame who ever they wish but as someone who was once a Left of Center Dem and now, after 20+ years in Mass, works everyday for the total eradication of the Democrat Party from the face of the Earth this exists because Mass has the government it DESERVES.
Until people here realize they have already LOST their Democracy and ther Rights and act to restore true democracy and two party rule you will spend your time in these verbal circle jerks.
Back when they held the Sub committee hearings on 180 I testified and met a guy who had also recently moved to Mass. Brocton had refused him an LTC because they said he "wasn't the king of person they wanted with a gun". He was a former Federal guy and had spent many years working in Soviet Bloc countries and said he had success dealing with Mass government as soon as he realized it was the same as dealing with the Party workers in Bulgaria or East Germany.
If you want to buy items every citizen of the United States can buy or handguns like USFA Colt clones, Glocks or the big break top S&W copies then you need to stop arguing with each other and remove your government.
Once I thought that could happen.
Now I just figured out that if I want my freedom as an American I'd better move.

 

[arlow]

Ted also told us that the AG called the BP store and verbally (and maybe by Fax too, don't know) ordered them to "cease and desist" and retrieve all sold Glocks. I was in that store on their opening evening AND I was back in that store the following morning, talking with BP staff and one of the Glock buyers who had come back to return the gun. Everything in this paragraph I am certain that I was told just as I'm relating it.

So Ted attempted negotiation with BPS, BPS corporate and then the dropping of the dime to the AG in the timeframe of less than 24 hours?

They open the doors on their very first day and the very next day the AG is already breathing down their neck to get the sold glocks back? How much thinking could he have really done in that time frame and get action done that quickly? Sounds like an impulsive, emotional reaction to me.

 

[Len-2A Training]

So Ted did attempted negotionation with BPS, BPS corporate and then then the dropping of the dime to the AG in the timeframe of less than 24 hours?

They open the doors on their very first day and the very next day the AG is already breathing down their neck to get the sold glocks back? How much thinking could he have really done in that time frame and get action done that quickly? Sounds like an impulsive, emotional reaction to me.

To be clear, I don't remember Ted saying anything to me about his contacting BP before CHSB. Can't tell you that he did it or not, just don't think so based on everything else he said to me/us.

IIRC their grand opening started late afternoon on a weekday. I was in their ~2 hours after they opened the doors and stayed their ~2 hours. I was back there the following morning (probably 10:30-11AM) and they had already retrieved all three of the Glocks (a fourth was sold to a LEO and they didn't bug him/her to return it). Again I was there ~2 hours chatting with them about the AG stomping on them, etc.

So there was a VERY NARROW window of time between the first customer gong into the store and the hammer (and sickle) dropped on them.

 

[arlow]

I really need to proof read my posts better....

 

[CrossFrire]

LenS wrote;
"...they had already retrieved all three of the Glocks (a fourth was sold to a LEO and they didn't bug him/her to return it)."

A pretty fair testimonial to the Rule of Law in this State. One set of Laws for one group and a different set for those in power.

 

[FalArAk]

- MA dealers were NOT thrilled at common serfs being able to buy (cheaper) via mail-order. No reason that they should like it. Ted is president of the now long-defunct MA Firearms Dealers Assn (? exact name). It is NOT in their best interest to stand up for you or me being able to undercut the local dealer and get goods delivered to MA residents' doors.

+1

Once everybody gets a grasp of this,only then will everyone realize that the ONLY people that will end this stupid ammo shipping ban,is us.

No groups will help us...follow the money.

 

[MikeD]

Does the AG's ruling apply to individuals who ship ammo to Ma. residents or is it just the dealers who can't ship ammo?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Does the AG's ruling apply to individuals who ship ammo to Ma. residents or is it just the dealers who can't ship ammo?

The AG is NOT going to go after "Joe the plumber" shipping a box of ammo to Mary Smith in Anytown, MA. It just won't make a good news conference!

The AG has ONLY gone after DEALERS/DISTRIBUTORS who were shipping into MA. Made big press releases/media events out of it.

From a purely technical point of view . . . and according to a conversation I had with the most knowledgeable GOAL Staffer out there when this all went down . . . The AG's position is that out-of-state Dealers/Distributors can NOT legally ship ammo to MA Dealers/Distributors or even PDs in MA. HOWEVER, the AG (for purely political reasons) chose to ONLY go after the out-of-state Dealers/Distributors who shipped to individuals (low hanging fruit).

I chuckled when told the above and remarked if the AG stopped all shipments to PDs, THAT AG's political career would be OVER, STAT!

Federal Law and UCC is on our side, but there is nobody to speak for us (see Greg's post above) and MA courts are biased against anything to do with guns/ammo.

 

[CrossFrire]

This is what enrages me about politics and the system here in the Sheeples Socialist Republic. They use the full force of the law against honest citizens excercising their legal rights but criminals, like the thug whose illegal 9mm killed his little cousin, are given a slap on the wrist and a pass.
Legal shooters buy ammo from legal sellers after supplying license info and the Party, er I mean the State, go after them for engaiging in legal trade.
At least two vendors, J&G and AIM Surplus, have told me that the letters from the Mass AG do not threaten criminal charges, because even the jackbooted thugs on Becon Hill are smart enough to know they'd never make it stick, but civil litigation that would be far more costly and drawn out and subject to a far lower standard of evidence.
The dollars from the 250,000 legal gun owners in Mass just isn't worth the potential loss.
You can complain about the actions of individuals all you want but until you remove the iron boot of the Democrat Party from you neck you will continue to be a slave to their modern brand of Socialism.
Other than that I have no strong opinion on the matter...

 

[GSG]

Also, the rights of a million+ gun owners in Mass are far more important to me than one small business owner's welfare.

Yes. The best thing any gun dealer can do is support the 2A to the hilt. Common sense, more available customers.

He couldn't sell Glocks before BassPro opened.
He couldn't sell Glocks when BassPro was open and was selling Glocks.
He can't sell Glocks now that BassPro can't sell them either.

Aside from the insults (that I didn't quote), yes.

He's supposed to mind his own f-ing business.

If he thought it through, he'd've let them keep it up. Look at BP's prices sometime. You can find better prices at small shops everywhere. If they had gone on selling Glocks, HK's, etc, for a while before the AG got to them, they would've been much more likely to fight, and knock this stupid house of cards down once and for all. Then the small shops would've been able to undercut BP's prices.

I agree.


I think if Ted wanted to defend himself, he could have. The two times I went there (buying guns via FFL from another NES'er), he was polite and helpful, and aside from the young white supremacist behind the counter (one of his clerks, when I asked about the cloverleaf sticker on the baseplate of his 3rd Gen G19 he suggested I attend a "meeting"), I had no complaints about his store.

But, it's a long drive for me, and even if it wasn't, I don't want to support his business.

 

[WILDCATT]

nra

most people expect the NRA to do the job they should do themselves.
I will say it again 1,800,000 gun owners should be able to own the state.they
wont!may be the NRA wants you to do what you should have done yrs ago,you cant even get rid of kennady. and when Major Karen McNutt ran for AG you would not back her.you all deserve what you got.as for TED,screw him,hes just another poster boy for the brady bunch.theres 16,000 GOAL members where are the rest of the gun owners?
as for two of you I would not trust you as far as I could throw you.

 

[EddieCoyle]

as for two of you I would not trust you as far as I could throw you.

What are you talking about?

 

[Trupo]

What are you talking about?

I doubt if he even knows...just another sensless ramble from down south.

 

[News Shooter]

curiouser and curiouser

 

[meth0d]

What are you talking about?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[GSG]

most people expect the NRA to do the job they should do themselves.
I will say it again 1,800,000 gun owners should be able to own the state.they
wont!may be the NRA wants you to do what you should have done yrs ago,you cant even get rid of kennady. and when Major Karen McNutt ran for AG you would not back her.you all deserve what you got.as for TED,screw him,hes just another poster boy for the brady bunch.theres 16,000 GOAL members where are the rest of the gun owners?
as for two of you I would not trust you as far as I could throw you.

Captain Walt? Is that you?

 

[drgrant]

Captain Walt? Is that you?

Close but the post is missing a dumb graphic.

Not enough intentional misspellings.

-Mike