Someone breaks in - Do you yell that you're armed or not?

When I pull it back? Which would be relatively quiet. You don't ride the bolt forward unless you like misfires.
Why not just leave it open and not have to pull it back more than say a 1/16 of an inch or just use the slide stop to send it forward?

I might be confused by what you mean.

This is exactly why I have my pistols at condition one. No need to think. Just pull trigger.

But if I grab a gun from someone, I will try to figure out what condition it’s at.

And agree. DO NOT ride the slide.
 
I expect nothing less than a 20 minute response to any 911 call.
It’s just a cold hard fact.
I’m betting I have more fire extinguishers per square foot than anybody.
yep, 911 response can be pretty fooking casual
 
I expect nothing less than a 20 minute response to any 911 call. ...I’m betting I have more fire extinguishers per square foot than anybody.
yep, 911 response can be pretty fooking casual
Even my town l fire marshal endorsed "self help", said that they strongly encouraged interior sprinkler systems, but at a minimum every exit door should have a fire extinguisher -- idea being that you conduct a fighting retreat rather than stand your ground.

The average suburbanite is orders of magnitude more at risk for a structure fire than a hot prowl burglary (aka "home invasion").

AR-9 SBR’s are perfect for this.
Ok. You might just win this thread.
But seriously, 9mm FMJ will go through walls and end up in places you might not want them to go….
147 Grain HST JHP reduces that risk (not that I have neighbors downrange), and suppresses really well, too.
 
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147 Grain HST JHP reduces that risk (not that I have neighbors downrange), and suppresses really well, too.
I’m in MA so no can… and a density populated neighborhood.

So not a good option for me.

So this is what you get.

And yes. Points off for a black light on a FDE gun.
IMG_3263.jpeg
 
Why not just leave it open and not have to pull it back more than say a 1/16 of an inch or just use the slide stop to send it forward?

I might be confused by what you mean.

This is exactly why I have my pistols at condition one. No need to think. Just pull trigger.

But if I grab a gun from someone, I will try to figure out what condition it’s at.

And agree. DO NOT ride the slide.
Old habit, long term storage, we stored M4's with the bolt forward and the trigger released. I keep the mags beside the 'pistol', I like having a little bit of 'threat recognition' time and 'wake up' time if it's at night. Maybe not the most tactical plan, but it works for me. I have other tools closer if needed, and picked up a dog a few months ago that's got a bad ass growl.

Thankfully, where I live, you pretty much have to know where the street is. No lights at the intersection into the multiple cul-de-sacs.
 
do you live in a protest heavy area? were you planning to go deter looters from your local town centers if it came up?

same plan this year for when a criminal gets himself killed for acting crazy during an arrest?
Oh no, no intention of getting involved in any of that nonsense, I’m not going to jail because some turd wants to steal a tv and some new jeans. But the country was upside down and on fire at the time, so I felt better just getting ahead of the power curve.
 
MA Statute: 278 MGL 8A
"Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling."

MA Case Law: Commonwealth v. Shaffer, 367 Mass. 508
"There was no evidence that he had a dangerous weapon at any time. He was only two or three steps from the top of the stairway when he was shot. The defendant had ample opportunity to call the police. She could have left the basement with her children. A period of five minutes had elapsed from the time the defendant first went down to the basement until the shooting occurred. The defendant did not warn the victim that she would shoot if he continued his descent down the stairway. There was evidence from the defendant's husband that she had considerable experience in the use of that rifle." "This is clearly a part of the totality of circumstances which must be considered in every case."

Defendant was found guilty of manslaughter.
 
MA Statute: 278 MGL 8A
"Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling."

MA Case Law: Commonwealth v. Shaffer, 367 Mass. 508
"There was no evidence that he had a dangerous weapon at any time. He was only two or three steps from the top of the stairway when he was shot. The defendant had ample opportunity to call the police. She could have left the basement with her children. A period of five minutes had elapsed from the time the defendant first went down to the basement until the shooting occurred. The defendant did not warn the victim that she would shoot if he continued his descent down the stairway. There was evidence from the defendant's husband that she had considerable experience in the use of that rifle." "This is clearly a part of the totality of circumstances which must be considered in every case."

Defendant was found guilty of manslaughter.
It's MA, so...
 
If you don’t think that could happen anywhere you must be high.

Actually, you’re in Florida. Nevermind.
They had a woman in miami who was robbed at gun point who subsequently went outside after the fact and hosed her entire neighborhood shooting blindly and was charged with zero. This place is... well... FL. [rofl]
 
MA Statute: 278 MGL 8A
"Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling."

MA Case Law: Commonwealth v. Shaffer, 367 Mass. 508
"There was no evidence that he had a dangerous weapon at any time. He was only two or three steps from the top of the stairway when he was shot. The defendant had ample opportunity to call the police. She could have left the basement with her children. A period of five minutes had elapsed from the time the defendant first went down to the basement until the shooting occurred. The defendant did not warn the victim that she would shoot if he continued his descent down the stairway. There was evidence from the defendant's husband that she had considerable experience in the use of that rifle." "This is clearly a part of the totality of circumstances which must be considered in every case."

Defendant was found guilty of manslaughter.
Note that Commonwealth v. Shaffer was decided in 1975, while the entirety of 287:8A was enacted ~6 years later, in 1981.

Also the dead guy, John Ferruzzo, wasn't a home invader -- he was Shaffer's live-in fiancé,, making a castle doctrine claim moot.
 
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Note that Commonwealth v. Shaffer was decided in 1975, while the entirety of 287:8A was enacted ~6 years later, in 1981.
True, but case law is heavily based upon precedent and "reasonable means to defend himself..." will depend upon "the totality of circumstances." according to the MA Supreme Court.
The Appeals Court Decision (2 Mass. App. Ct. 658 ) stated "...the jury, in determining the reasonableness of the force used by the defendant, should consider evidence of many factors,..." and went on to state "...the determination of the reasonableness of retreat under the circumstances is a question of fact for resolution by the jury;" A number of citations were listed.

In other words, kill an intruder (or your crazed spouse) and you will be charged with manslaughter and your destiny is in the hands of a MA jury who will determine if "reasonable means" were used.
Note the defendant was tried in Superior Court, (Est $35,000) then went to Appeals Court (Est $20,000) and finally Supreme Court (Est $20,000) losing each time.

If I hear the glass break I'm leaving.
 
With my area having two horrific cases of "randomly targeted house" since 2009, neither cops nor prosecutors are going to put significant effort into going after a lawful resident reacting to a bona fide home invasion.

Frankly, something like carbon monoxide or propane explosions have killed more people locally than home invasions, but CO alerting and intrusion alerting are not mutually exclusive.
Note that Commonwealth v. Shaffer was decided in 1975, while the entirety of 287:8A was enacted ~6 years later, in 1981.
Also the dead guy, John Ferruzzo, wasn't a home invader -- he was Shaffer's live-in fiancé,, making a castle doctrine claim moot.
True, but case law is heavily based upon precedent and "reasonable means to defend himself..." will depend upon "the totality of circumstances." according to the MA Supreme Court.
The Appeals Court Decision (2 Mass. App. Ct. 658 ) stated "...the jury, in determining the reasonableness of the force used by the defendant, should consider evidence of many factors,..." and went on to state "...the determination of the reasonableness of retreat under the circumstances is a question of fact for resolution by the jury;" A number of citations were listed.

In other words, kill an intruder (or your crazed spouse) and you will be charged with manslaughter and your destiny is in the hands of a MA jury who will determine if "reasonable means" were used.
Case law on "duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling." would've been mooted by the legislation passed a half decade later, adding 8A.

I conceded that a dispute between two lawful residents wouldn't have been a good test of castle doctrine even after 8A was added in 1981.

8A is a defense only, the state of Massachusetts is still free to persecute subjects for the crime of self help.
If I hear the glass break I'm leaving.
I left -- for NH.
 
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I'm reading too many people courting a confrontation rather than avoiding one. "I don't want to lose the element of surprise"?????
I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to have to shoot somebody. Make no mistake, anybody who breaks in and is looking to harm me or mine after he knows I'm armed; he's getting dumped and I won't lose a minute's rest over it. But, anybody WANTING to do that needs mental help.
I don't want to shoot anyone either, but I am not volunteering the information that I am armed unless I have eyes on the person inside my home and I know exactly where they are.

Not all home invaders will leave peacefully. Some enter dwellings because they know people are home and want to cause harm.

Not everyone who wants the element of surprise in their own homes has malicious intent.
 
With my area having two horrific cases of "randomly targeted house" since 2009, neither cops nor prosecutors are going to put significant effort into going after a lawful resident reacting to a bona fide home invasion.

Frankly, something like carbon monoxide or propane explosions have killed more people locally than home invasions, but CO alerting and intrusion alerting are not mutually exclusive.

Case law on "duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling." would've been mooted by the legislation passed a half decade later, adding 8A.

I conceded that a dispute between two lawful residents wouldn't have been a good test of castle doctrine even after 8A was added in 1981.

8A is a defense only, the state of Massachusetts is still free to persecute subjects for the crime of self help.

I left -- for NH.
we bust a lot of balls here, but I'm glad we share a state
 
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