Some stovepipes on first 9mm reloads

[daekken]

So I shot the first thirty 9mm reloads I made up today and six of them stovepiped.

All went bang, seemed reasonably accurate, etc.

Is it more likely that a.) the charge is too light (I'm using 6.5gr Accurate # 7 w/ 115gr Berry's RN), b.) I need to crimp (I did not, but I do have a crimp die) c.) some combination of these or d.) something else?

My initial thought was that either the charge was too light, causing the slide not to fully cycle, and/or the lack of crimp delayed extraction causing it to get stuck.

 

[SJan]

did they feel light ? -compared to factory 115g ?
I'm too lazy to look up your recipe, what is the min / max for that combo?
And you should crimp.

 

[noylj]

For everyone: you should ALWAYS start at the START load and work up. The start load is NOT a minimum load, nor is it guaranteed to cycle all guns. It is usually selected as follows:
1) 10-12% reduction from the max load
2) All start loads start at the same velocity so the table in the manual is pretty
3) All start loads start at the same max average pressure

Start loads range from 6.4-7.9gn of AA7 for 115gn jacketed bullets (I still use lead bullet data for plated bullets), with accuracy normally being around 8.2gn. Loads depend on bullet used, COL and, very often, the powder lot number.
Stove pipes are caused almost always by either light loads or limp wristing or flinching in anticipation of recoil (except for my asinine Browning HP that wants you to limp wrist for perfect functioning, as several of my friends have verified).
Keep working your load up.

 

[daekken]

did they feel light ? -compared to factory 115g ?
I'm too lazy to look up your recipe, what is the min / max for that combo?
And you should crimp.

For everyone: you should ALWAYS start at the START load and work up. The start load is NOT a minimum load, nor is it guaranteed to cycle all guns. It is usually selected as follows:
1) 10-12% reduction from the max load
2) All start loads start at the same velocity so the table in the manual is pretty
3) All start loads start at the same max average pressure

Start loads range from 6.4-7.9gn of AA7 for 115gn jacketed bullets (I still use lead bullet data for plated bullets), with accuracy normally being around 8.2gn. Loads depend on bullet used, COL and, very often, the powder lot number.
Stove pipes are caused almost always by either light loads or limp wristing or flinching in anticipation of recoil (except for my asinine Browning HP that wants you to limp wrist for perfect functioning, as several of my friends have verified).
Keep working your load up.

Yeah I saw both 6.5 and 7 as lowest list for # 7 so I started with 6.5.
Looking at the Berry's site they recommend a light crimp.
So I think I'll do a tad more powder and a light crimp and run another 30 or so.

 

[ILikeGlocks]

Not sure what you are reloading for or what gun you are using, but if you are loading light - you may need a lighter recoil spring to match it. This is fine for competition guns & purely plinking guns, but I would not do this with any gun you plan on using to protect yourself.

My reloads clock in at ~ 128 Power Factor (bullet weight in grains * average velocity / 1000). I found that I needed to go down to a 10lb or 11lb recoil spring in my CZ Shadow 2 to cycle reliably)

 

[bill o]

Crimping 9mm means just removing the belling. Don't curl the case mouth into the bullet.

 

[daekken]

Not sure what you are reloading for or what gun you are using, but if you are loading light - you may need a lighter recoil spring to match it. This is fine for competition guns & purely plinking guns, but I would not do this with any gun you plan on using to protect yourself.

My reloads clock in at ~ 128 Power Factor (bullet weight in grains * average velocity / 1000). I found that I needed to go down to a 10lb or 11lb recoil spring in my CZ Shadow 2 to cycle reliably)

I used them in a Gen 5 G19.
These were the first ever pistol rounds I've done, all my other reloading has been bottleneck rifle (chiefly 30-06, 308 and 223). I wanted to try since 9mm I started doing USPSA (also with a Shadow 2).

It wasn't going for a "light load" as much as "this is my first time doing this so I don't want to explode my Glock" approach. Now that I know they'll fire safely (stovepipes aside), I'll put a higher charge and a crimp and see how another 30 or so do.

 

[drgrant]

The start load is so weak in most cases I don't bother, unless it's the speer book....

 

[mac1911]

I used them in a Gen 5 G19.
These were the first ever pistol rounds I've done, all my other reloading has been bottleneck rifle (chiefly 30-06, 308 and 223). I wanted to try since 9mm I started doing USPSA (also with a Shadow 2).

It wasn't going for a "light load" as much as "this is my first time doing this so I don't want to explode my Glock" approach. Now that I know they'll fire safely (stovepipes aside), I'll put a higher charge and a crimp and see how another 30 or so do.

Stove pipe/glock .....hmm theres your answer

 

[nstassel]

its a light load so I assume you need a lighter recoil spring for it to function or work up a warmer load

 

[daekken]

Stove pipe/glock .....hmm theres your answer

Harhar...this new one has 650+ rounds including a USPSA match under its belt with no malfunctions...I'm hoping it's the fact I did 8% lighter than the powder manufacturer's minimum!

 

[meh]

I'm hoping it's the fact I did 8% lighter than the powder manufacturer's minimum!

That'd be my first guess. If the book says 7.0 to 8.2, I'm not even starting at 7.0. I've loaded from starting loads in 9mm before (Titegroup and CFE Pistol), and it has so far been a total waste of time for me. YMMV. Maybe you'll get a hot can of powder or something.

 

[daekken]

OK I'll try 7.5gr of Accurate #7 and do up 30 more.

 

[meh]

30 would be a lot for me. I don’t have the patience to bring that many of a single trial load. When I’m working up a load, it’s typically 5x per load. And I take a sequence of loads. If the book says 7.0-8.2, I’d probably take 7.4,7.6,7.8,8.0,8.2 and compare to factory loads. If it started to get too hot, I’d bring the higher loads home, pull the bullets, and redo them with the good charge that I found along the way.

 

[EddieZoom]

It wasn't going for a "light load" as much as "this is my first time doing this so I don't want to explode my Glock" approach. Now that I know they'll fire safely (stovepipes aside), I'll put a higher charge and a crimp and see how another 30 or so do.

No worries about blowing up a Glock with sissy little 9MM loads...only super-deadly 40SW loads have been known to do that ;-)

Eventually, you're going to want to invest in a chrono. I load nothing but pistol and I usually start out by running some factory ammo that I like through the chrono so I know what I'm trying to replicate/improve upon.

As someone else mentioned..."crimp" just means removes the bell for 9MM. Then grab some finished rounds and perform the "ker-plunk" test in the barrel of the gun you'll be shooting them from. If they drop in and out you are good.

 

[allen-1]

There are others here who know a lot more about reloading than I do. But that being said, I load 9mm for my Glocks, and I load quite a bit because I shoot quite a bit.

Try to find two sets of data for your min/max and OAL. Use the internet for your searching. Then write it down on a 3x5 card and keep it handy.

Start AT the start point, not UNDER it.
Load 10 rounds and go shoot them, see if they cycle correctly.
If not, bump up the powder a touch.
Do NOT go over the recommended max.

Check the OAL of the round. It's critical to the compression. If the OAL is too long, you'll load to the max without cycling the slide.

Do NOT change your spring. The gun is fine, it's your round that needs work.

Get a chamber checker to drop your finished rounds in, it's a lot faster than dropping them into the chamber of your pistol. It'll do two things, keep you from trying to load that "swollen" cartridge, and keep you from loading that .380 cartridge that snuck in. Here's a link to the one I use: EGW 7-Hole Chamber Checker Max Cartridge Ga 9mm Luger - MPN: 70110

 

[greencobra]

….it's a lot faster than dropping them into the chamber of your pistol.

if you're doing the tried and true "plunk" test, I hope instead of dropping them into the chamber of your pistol, your removing the barrel from the gun first. just sayin'

 

[allen-1]

if you're doing the tried and true "plunk" test, I hope instead of dropping them into the chamber of your pistol, your removing the barrel from the gun first. just sayin'

There is that, isn't there?

 

[NavelOfficer]

Unless you are looking to achieve a specific power factor, I generally test any new reloads by filling a magazine to the max (highest spring tension) and firing with a single round in the magazine. If the round functions with a full magazine and attains slide lock (where applicable) on an empty magazine, it's a fair indication that all is well. You also know that the COL's are adequate, if they don't bind in the magazine. Some bullet profiles may bind, even if below the maximum COL.
You may get proper ejection and all that, but if it's still too weak to achieve slide lock, your load is still a tad anemic for that firearm.

 

[DW357]

I used them in a Gen 5 G19.
These were the first ever pistol rounds I've done, all my other reloading has been bottleneck rifle (chiefly 30-06, 308 and 223). I wanted to try since 9mm I started doing USPSA (also with a Shadow 2).

It wasn't going for a "light load" as much as "this is my first time doing this so I don't want to explode my Glock" approach. Now that I know they'll fire safely (stovepipes aside), I'll put a higher charge and a crimp and see how another 30 or so do.

I agree with others that you might need to use a lighter recoil spring in the S2. I'm using a 10 or 11 pound (can't remember off the top of my head) with 130ish PF reloads. The factory S2 spring is definitely heavier than 10-11 pounds.

Grab a couple from CGW and try em out
11RS 11# Yellow Recoil Spring - Cajun Gun Works
10RS 10# White Recoil Spring - Cajun Gun Works

And as bill o mentioned, do NOT apply a super heavy crimp. You just need enough to close the belling/flare of the casemouth. You can always test this by making a dummy round and then pulling the bullet to see if you've deformed the bullet and/or cut into the plating.

Also try upping the charge weight too.

 

[allen-1]

Your 6.5 is too light.

From Accurate's web site: (http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf)






And I'd check your COL if you haven't already. I know I said it before, but it was one of the problems I had when I started out. I came close to the maximum load and it was because I wasn't seating the bullets deep enough into the case. The overall length can affect the feed, but the amount that the bullet's introduced into the case changes the compression, and it can do it dramatically. Think about internal combustion engines and piston/head/chamber clearances where the burn takes place. It's the same controlled burn, just on a smaller scale.

 

[daekken]

Your 6.5 is too light.

From Accurate's web site: (http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf)

View attachment 251870


View attachment 251869

And I'd check your COL if you haven't already. I know I said it before, but it was one of the problems I had when I started out. I came close to the maximum load and it was because I wasn't seating the bullets deep enough into the case. The overall length can affect the feed, but the amount that the bullet's introduced into the case changes the compression, and it can do it dramatically. Think about internal combustion engines and piston/head/chamber clearances where the burn takes place. It's the same controlled burn, just on a smaller scale.

Yeah I found that 7.0 after reading 6.5 somewhere else. I'll try 7.5gr next I think. My COL was at about 1.10, maybe a little longer.

 

[daekken]

The twenty five test rounds today using 7.5gr and 1.13 COL worked flawlessly, no issues at all.

Now I can load up the next 945 of them.

 

[allen-1]

The twenty five test rounds today using 7.5gr and 1.13 COL worked flawlessly, no issues at all.

Now I can load up the next 945 of them.

Awesome.