Solar Power Systems

[Caesar243]

I have been interested in a closed solar power system in my home, but would also like to take advantage of the savings of being on the grid too. In other words I want the ability to close the loop and get off the grid in case of an emergency or disaster, but stay on the grid and get energy savings from a meter that runs backwards. I am a contractor but I sub out all of my electrical, so I have a basic idea of electric systems and I know a manual switch over can be done. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages so a hybrid system would work best in my opinion. The off the grid system requires deep cycle batteries and depending on the size of you panels and the time of year (and location) it could cause gaps in your available power. An on the grid system doesn't need batteries and utilizes all of the power converted in the form of electricity for your home, or if no power is needed, it cycles it out onto the grid giving you savings on your electric bill, or in some cases $$$$ from the power company if your bill is negative.

Any folks here have experience with either of these systems? I have only read about them and don't know how much maintenance they require, or how efficient they are (especially here in New England). I was reading about a new power cell that works well in all weather, and times of year but is not as effective overall as the others that work the best in the direct sun. Maybe it would be wise to have some of both. I think the dropping prices in solar power, and the increase in efficency make it a good investment if you have the money. It could prove to be invaluable someday.

 

[RichM]

Check this link... we had a member here install a solar set-up last year...

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/105424-Anyone-here-know-about-solar-panels-%28roof-mount%29

 

[Kevin_NH]

You'll want to read up on the merits of "on grid' (aka grid-tied) systems with no batteries, versus battery-backed and fully "off grid" systems. There are plenty of very effective controllers to smoothly handle the switchover. Even as far south as Providence, solar power sufficient to serve your maximum load is going to be a very expensive install, lots of square footage, and if you want to be independent of the grid, lots of batteries (which will need regular maintenance and eventual replacement).

It's tough to see a payback from solar electricity in New England, even with net-metering and tax incentives, even if you think 10+ years out. You might be better off spending your money on more energy efficient lighting and appliances, or if you're worried about grid outages, on a generator and a big fuel tank.

 

[Caesar243]

As far as survival is concerned I would like a flexible system that can be added to slowly (I have little money to invest at the moment). I don't know what to expect efficency wise, and I would probably wire the small solar system to supply only one small area of my home. In case of an emergency, SHTF scenario, or a natural disaster having power could make survival a lot easier. You would have ability to charge batteries for lights, tools, and other electronics. Electricity is not the key to survival, but it makes it a lot easier and more comfortable. I have been investing in a bug out kit, and building supplies slowly, and an upgradable solar system is on my list. I like the idea of going green and saving money along the way. I think that a solar system trumps a generator and fuel tank in the long run. Fuel degrades over time and may become more and more difficult to obtain, especially in a SHTF scenario. Maybe a combination of both along with a few wind turbines. It is tough to tell what the circumstances of a disaster or collapse will be, and we may have to adapt to several changes. That could include having to move to different location or migrate away from danger, which would negate any infrastructure you set up now. I am covering the most important things for survival first, and all home upgrades are secondary.

 

[coastie]

Get your food and other supplies squared away before you get into alt energy. You arent going to save money going green with a solar system especially if you build it a little at a time. Most of the credits are one time deals and I believe you have to have professional installation. I looked into putting solar on our house with a combination battery bank/grid tie. My intent was like yours to feed the grid and them if need be disconnect from the grid and run reduced loads from the solar. Wasnt worth it. Pay back from the power company would have been something like 20 years even with the credits. I ended up buying a small panel to charge a deep cycle battery for lighting/radio and charge various batteries for lights and tools.

 

[calsdad]

From everything I have read about solar generated electricity - especially in the New England area - it just doesn't make sense. The only situations where I have seen anybody be able to justify the cost was in situations where the house was so far off the grid - that the cost of running a line in outweighed the cost of solar panels.

One of the founders of the Co. I work for cashed out and was intent on doing a solar power startup - he bagged it because it just didn't make economic sense.

Honestly - If you're looking for SHTF power - think about getting a reliable DIESEL generator. You can run diesel engines on biodiesel or even refined cooking grease. So even if sources of gasoline or propane go away - you're very likely to be able to find sources of diesel fuel and/or make your own.

Until the govt. gives up subsidizing carbon based energy industries and the price of petro based fuels goes up - electrons from the copper line coming in from the street are still hard to beat cost-wise.

 

[Kevin_NH]

From everything I have read about solar generated electricity - especially in the New England area - it just doesn't make sense. The only situations where I have seen anybody be able to justify the cost was in situations where the house was so far off the grid - that the cost of running a line in outweighed the cost of solar panels.

I did the math about a year ago, and at the time, the diesel fuel costs worked out about the same per KWh as the total (tax, etc) price from the local utility. Add in filters and maintenance and the generator comes out a bit higher, but is much cheaper to install than solar or running a line to get on the grid.

Honestly - If you're looking for SHTF power - think about getting a reliable DIESEL generator. You can run diesel engines on biodiesel or even refined cooking grease. So even if sources of gasoline or propane go away - you're very likely to be able to find sources of diesel fuel and/or make your own.

I agree.

One suggestion I found interesting was to go with a larger (more efficient) diesel engine, and use that to charge up a bank of batteries. This way you can run low-wattage loads (e.g. overnight) without having to listen to your generator chugging away, but can also run higher-wattage loads with the generator running, extending the service life of both batteries and generator.

 

[calsdad]

One suggestion I found interesting was to go with a larger (more efficient) diesel engine, and use that to charge up a bank of batteries. This way you can run low-wattage loads (e.g. overnight) without having to listen to your generator chugging away, but can also run higher-wattage loads with the generator running, extending the service life of both batteries and generator.

That's sort of the same thing the hybrid cars do - the engine runs at a constant speed so it can be tuned to run at it's best efficiency -and it is used to charge up the batteries on the car.

The real problem with the diesel generator solution is I have never found too many smaller "house" sized diesel generators. Most of the home owner type units are all propane, natural gas, or gasoline. There are some smaller diesel units out there - but from what I have seen they're all made in China stuff.

 

[RichM]

... The real problem with the diesel generator solution is I have never found too many smaller "house" sized diesel generators. Most of the home owner type units are all propane, natural gas, or gasoline. There are some smaller diesel units out there...

I really don't know about availability, but the Army uses a BUNCH of small diesel generators, in 3K, 5K, 7K, and 10K watts. Some of them have some nice quiet exhaust packs on them. It used to be that you always needed to hide them behind CONNEXs, trees, or vehicles to shield yourself from the noise, but with the mufflers they use now, they plant them right in the middle of a swarm of tents without issues...

 

[calsdad]

That's sort of the same thing the hybrid cars do - the engine runs at a constant speed so it can be tuned to run at it's best efficiency -and it is used to charge up the batteries on the car.

The real problem with the diesel generator solution is I have never found too many smaller "house" sized diesel generators. Most of the home owner type units are all propane, natural gas, or gasoline. There are some smaller diesel units out there - but from what I have seen they're all made in China stuff.

I'll take back that last statement. This place:

http://www.hardydiesel.com/kubota-diesel-generators.html

Has Kubota diesel generators at what look like decent prices.

The 7Kw unit is $4785.00 - which compares pretty favorably to one of the better gas generators out there, the Honda EU6500:

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/...ion=P2GG&modelname=EU6500i&modelid=EU6500ISAN

which lists at $4500.00


The specs on the Kubota vs the Honda appear about the same for output.

I've been thinking off and on about getting one of the Honda's - I think I might have just convinced myself to get a Kubota!