So once again duel residency and transfers

[Porky4775]

I apologize in advance as I’m sure this has been covered many many times already but I’m having trouble finding the answers I’m looking for.
So as I stated I have duel residency in MA and NH. I have a couple pistols that I keep up north because I was always under the assumption that since they were not MA compliant I could not bring them to MA. ( I do hold a class A unrestricted ltc btw). Anyways I was recently told by a gun dealer that I can carry any gun I want as long as it doesn’t violate the assault weapons ban and have a magazine of ten rounds or less. That the roster only pertains to what dealers are allowed to sell.
Now my question is this. #1 is everything I was told true? #2 if it is do I need to fill out a FA10 form for the guns? And finally #3 on the fa10 form it asks if it is high capacity, is it asking if the gun itself is capable of carrying more than ten rounds? To which the answer would be yes, or if the magazine is more than ten rounds? Which my answer would be no. Again I’m sure this has been covered many time but all the posts I found were A few years old or not quite the same situation as mine. Thanks again

 

[kingfisher]

#1 - yes
#2 - no
#3 - n/a

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes it is true.
Yes, you need to eFA-10 each gun you bring into MA for the first time. Use the registration option without info on the source of the gun.
Yes, the gun is large capacity if normally sold (outside MA) with >10 rd mags.

 

[KBCraig]

Duel residency? Pistols at dawn?

 

[MAJoe]

Yes it is true.
Yes, you need to eFA-10 each gun you bring into MA for the first time. Use the registration option without info on the source of the gun.
Yes, the gun is large capacity if normally sold (outside MA) with >10 rd mags.

Is that only if the OP wants to bring them and store them in MA? Or technically if he brings it from NH to carry for the day, and returns back home to NH to store the pistol?

 

[Porky4775]

I did an fa10 for one of them this morning, I figure if there was an issue it wouldn’t have gone through, but everything was accepted so hopefully no issues. I didn’t bring it down from nh yet I wanted to make sure everything was ok before I brought it into MA.

 

[67ray]

If you do fa-10 then you can't be accused of failing to register a firearm here, if you don't then all bets are off. Odd chance you are carrying in MA and then you have to draw - think they are not going to dig around on that one? Do you want to spend $$$$'s betting the nuances of the law will persuade a judge you are on the up-and-up?

Even if you win you have lost.

 

[Porky4775]

If you do fa-10 then you can't be accused of failing to register a firearm here, if you don't then all bets are off. Odd chance you are carrying in MA and then you have to draw - think they are not going to dig around on that one? Do you want to spend $$$$'s betting the nuances of the law will persuade a judge you are on the up-and-up?

Even if you win you have lost.

Ya I kind of figure better to be safe than sorry, at least now I have a record of me notifying the state. I have to admit a lot of rules seem to fall in a gray area when it comes to certain scenarios

 

[drgrant]

If you do fa-10 then you can't be accused of failing to register a firearm here, if you don't then all bets are off. Odd chance you are carrying in MA and then you have to draw - think they are not going to dig around on that one? Do you want to spend $$$$'s betting the nuances of the law will persuade a judge you are on the up-and-up?

Even if you win you have lost.

Find me an actual S128A/B prosecution (or even charges? )then we can talk about "digging". A gun not being in the database is meaningless and proves nothing. It's not prima facie evidence of a crime. They would still have to prove that you were obligated to register, and didn't, and that less than 6 years had elapsed since that event of "obligation" occurred... (statute of limitations on paper gun "crimes" in MA) There are a bunch of guys that moved to MA with nothing in the database, or old guns not logged, etc. Since registration is not 100% compulsory in MA, this is pretty "normal".

Yes, comply if you can, makes good sense, I get it.... but S128A/B is dead last on the list of "things I'd be really concerned about" as a gun owner in MA..

 

[Porky4775]

for me anyways I’m just trying to do it correctly, I have no need to roll the dice and hope my interpretation of the law is correct. My main reason for asking/ doing this is I don’t always feel great about leaving firearms in my vacation home for weeks at a time without anyone there even though they are locked up. And I’d just prefer to have them all in one place as long as the roster doesn’t mean anything when it comes to what I actually own.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Is that only if the OP wants to bring them and store them in MA? Or technically if he brings it from NH to carry for the day, and returns back home to NH to store the pistol?

First time it crosses the border, eFA-10 is legally required. Matters not if it is a day trip or permanent relocation of the gun.

If you do fa-10 then you can't be accused of failing to register a firearm here, if you don't then all bets are off. Odd chance you are carrying in MA and then you have to draw - think they are not going to dig around on that one? Do you want to spend $$$$'s betting the nuances of the law will persuade a judge you are on the up-and-up?

Even if you win you have lost.

So very true.

Find me an actual S128A/B prosecution (or even charges? )then we can talk about "digging". A gun not being in the database is meaningless and proves nothing. It's not prima facie evidence of a crime. They would still have to prove that you were obligated to register, and didn't, and that less than 6 years had elapsed since that event of "obligation" occurred... (statute of limitations on paper gun "crimes" in MA) There are a bunch of guys that moved to MA with nothing in the database, or old guns not logged, etc. Since registration is not 100% compulsory in MA, this is pretty "normal".

Yes, comply if you can, makes good sense, I get it.... but S128A/B is dead last on the list of "things I'd be really concerned about" as a gun owner in MA..

Mike, I'm not so sure of that! The case I testified at, the DA made a big deal about the SKS not being registered in MA. I have never seen the list of all charges, I was just told of some of the charges by the PI that hired me to testify. I was also told that the defendant had moved to MA from ME, so my response on the witness stand was that if you move in with them, they do not need to be registered. I don't know if the guy moved in with the rifle or not however, likewise I don't know if that was a charge (if so, the judge dismissed it) or just being used to make the guy look like a true scofflaw.

 

[67ray]

Find me an actual S128A/B prosecution (or even charges? )then we can talk about "digging". A gun not being in the database is meaningless and proves nothing. It's not prima facie evidence of a crime. They would still have to prove that you were obligated to register, and didn't, and that less than 6 years had elapsed since that event . . .

You are missing the point Mike. Any interaction with LE and/or DA is going to cost you time and money even if you are exonerated. And for what so you can avoid an FA-10 for a weapon you are supposed to report?

Sometimes on NES we go down the rabbit hole of mental gymnastics without having done a reality check on how the world works.

 

[Porky4775]

I think bottom line is better safe than sorry. As long as I can carry non compliant firearms legally purchased in nh with only taking 3 minutes to fill out an fa10 I’m good with that.

 

[fshalor]

First time it crosses the border, eFA-10 is legally required. Matters not if it is a day trip or permanent relocation of the gun.


So very true.


Mike, I'm not so sure of that! The case I testified at, the DA made a big deal about the SKS not being registered in MA. I have never seen the list of all charges, I was just told of some of the charges by the PI that hired me to testify. I was also told that the defendant had moved to MA from ME, so my response on the witness stand was that if you move in with them, they do not need to be registered. I don't know if the guy moved in with the rifle or not however, likewise I don't know if that was a charge (if so, the judge dismissed it) or just being used to make the guy look like a true scofflaw.

I also read "registered not required if moved in with" and held to it.

I know one person who freaked out when the efa10 system didn't let him register a 5th gun. I believe he accidentally used "transfer" not register. But.

Question about #1 though for clarification: 10rnd mag limit still applies to only postban mags? Or did the AG close that loophole.

(I always carried a preban Glock 17 mag as my spare when I lived in MA for my g-26.)

 

[Len-2A Training]

Pre-ban mags are perfectly legal and can be carried/used in any gun of any vintage.

 

[Racenet]

Sometimes on NES we go down the rabbit hole of mental gymnastics without having done a reality check on how the world works.

How the world works? That's not how the REAL world works. Just how f***ed up MA works. Big difference.

 

[Whiskeywon]

How the world works? That's not how the REAL world works. Just how f***ed up MA works. Big difference.

Unfortunately that would make it indicative of how our real world works.

 

[drgrant]

Mike, I'm not so sure of that! The case I testified at, the DA made a big deal about the SKS not being registered in MA. I have never seen the list of all charges, I was just told of some of the charges by the PI that hired me to testify. I was also told that the defendant had moved to MA from ME, so my response on the witness stand was that if you move in with them, they do not need to be registered. I don't know if the guy moved in with the rifle or not however, likewise I don't know if that was a charge (if so, the judge dismissed it) or just being used to make the guy look like a true scofflaw.

Making a show out of it and actually charging (and actually attempting to prosecute) someone with it are two different things. I just have never seen or heard about an actual 128A/B prosecution. Maybe some of the other attorneys here have but aren't going to say anything. "Making noises about it" and actually doing it are a whole different ballgame. It's effectively more obscure than even an AWB charge is, as far as I'm concerned. You don't see police log reports in the paper etc. ever mentioning that charge, and so on. When I went digging with this stuff years ago, myself and GSG couldn't find anything. Then again because of the way MA courts work it is often difficult to get this data at the court level, there's not just one server you can log into and go "I want all cases involving S128A" and it magically gives results.

Excessive whining/sniveling factor from DAs etc is common in this state. Darius (RIP) once told me he had a DA and a cop try to make a "huge deal" out of the fact that his client was "caught" with a Walther P22 and it was a "large capacity firearm violation" because the gun held 11 rounds total including the one in the chamber, and that because it was greater than 10, it was hence "large capacity". Needless to say that trashlogic didn't last long.

-Mike

 

[Racenet]

 

[drgrant]

You are missing the point Mike. Any interaction with LE and/or DA is going to cost you time and money even if you are exonerated.

Are you implying that an unregistered gun is likely always going to lead to an attempt to
prosecute? That's pretty amusing, considering if this was actually the case there would be a lot of people charged with it (because any person that was found with a firearm that wasn't in MIRCS would be arrested etc) and we'd have lots of decent case law to look at, etc. There are thousands of people who have thousands of guns not in MIRCS, and that in and of itself is not an "unlawful condition by default". That's the point I'm trying to make. The state actually has to go through some pains to actually prove that someone:

A. was actually legally obligated by law to report or register the firearm/rifle/shotgun in question (and in reading S128A/B this actually becomes very difficult depending on how one reads C140 S128A/B... )
B. the person failed to do this with in the allotted 7 day window (and some kind of evidence proving that, the gun arrived, 7 days elapsed, and nothing happened)
AND-
C. that even if A and B are proven to be true, that this "unlawful transfer" etc. happened recently enough that the statute of limitations has not expired.

So, bottom line... This law has a major, complicated three pronged test here for something that's a $500 fine for the first offense.... ponder that for a moment.

Also your example is pretty weak- do you REALLY think LE/DA is really going to care about your "unregistered gun" (which as discussed earlier, might not even be something you were required to register) when they're about to try to hang a half dozen violent felonies off you, if you actually had to draw on someone? That's like them going out of their way to give you a parking ticket because the meter expired right after you got handcuffed....

Sometimes on NES we go down the rabbit hole of mental gymnastics without having done a reality check on how the world works.

No mental gymnastics. I'm not saying "don't do it". Yes, do it, to make yourself sleep well at night or whatever. Or if it feels better. I get it. I file EFA-10 transfers like everyone else does when the law requires it. I am not that naive however in believing it actually does anything nor do I believe it provides any "protection" against malicious prosecutorial actions by the state. I also think a true "reality check" is present in the acknowledging the fact that S128A/B is rarely (or never?) used against an average smoe in a court of law. Even AWB garbage is brought into MA courts on a regular basis compared to that crap.

By all means if I'm wrong I'd love to see evidence pointing to this BIG rash of S128A/B cases in MA courts. I want people to post up about them so we can become better educated about this serious issue. I'm not entirely joking here, I think it would be pretty informative because it would tell gun owners where the line actually is instead of just a bunch of ham fisted guesses people make on a law that is rarely, if ever? actually prosecuted. ( in part due to the fact that S128A/B is the biggest clusterf*** of any given piece of gun law in MGL).

MGL C140 S128A/B is almost as bad as USC922R. I bet that guy from FalFiles still probably has his $1000 that he offered up like 10+ years ago.....

-Mike

 

[AHM]

I pity the DA that tries to demand an eFA-10 for a low-cap longarm transported from KTP to a Brattleboro residence via the Mohawk Trail by someone who has a MA resident LTC for their Wellfleet beach house.

 

[drgrant]

Oh best part.... today I reread these two piece of shit sections of law.... and found this gem...

128A: " Any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section shall comply with section 131E and shall, prior to or at the point of sale, be conducted over a real time web portal developed by the department of criminal justice information services. The department of criminal justice information services shall require each person selling or transferring a firearm, shotgun or rifle pursuant to this section to electronically provide, though the portal, such information as is determined to be necessary to verify the identification of the seller and purchaser and ensure that the sale or transfer complies with this section. Upon submission of the required information, the portal shall automatically review such information and display a message indicating whether the seller may proceed with the sale or transfer and shall provide any further instructions for the seller as determined to be necessary by the department of criminal justice information services.


128B:" " shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number. "


so which is it? "A" says a web portal, "B" says send something in writing. But we all know that they don't take any paper forms anymore, but there it is kids, printed in the law, at least the part that defines B. And B would seem more likely to deal with
someone "making" a gun, etc or it materializing out of thin air and needing to be "reported"... So can I still just send in paper FA-10s
to register builds? and even if they reject them, not care? After all, I did the "reporting". Would be fun to try this with certified mail or something like that, then they can't argue they never got it....

 

[MAJoe]

First time it crosses the border, eFA-10 is legally required. Matters not if it is a day trip or permanent relocation of the gun.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[AHM]

I pity the DA that tries to demand an eFA-10 for a low-cap longarm transported from KTP to a Brattleboro residence via the Mohawk Trail by someone who has a MA resident LTC for their Wellfleet beach house.

Hastening to add:

And a partridge in a pear tree.​

 

[Porky4775]

Wow this got a lot more attention than I thought it would, but For what’s it’s worth I don’t feel so bad for not finding the answers to my questions on my own now haha. I emailed someone from GOAL and I’m waiting to hear back from them I figured they might have a black and white answer to my question. I’ll keep you updated

 

[garandman]

Find me an actual S128A/B prosecution (or even charges? )then we can talk about "digging". A gun not being in the database is meaningless and proves nothing. It's not prima facie evidence of a crime. ///

A friend of mine in Andover was contacted about a pistol used in a crime in Lawrence. He’d sold it about 20 years ago, and there had been at least three different owners (club members) in the interim, and perhaps several others. He was the only name they had.

The state database is a mess. I’m about to spend $20 and a notary just to see what they have in mine.

 

[drgrant]

A friend of mine in Andover was contacted about a pistol used in a crime in Lawrence. He’d sold it about 20 years ago, and there had been at least three different owners (club members) in the interim, and perhaps several others. He was the only name they had.

The state database is a mess. I’m about to spend $20 and a notary just to see what they have in mine.

It is a dumpster fire. People have even told me in passing that stuff they bought from MA dealers is missing etc.

 

[DW357]

A friend of mine in Andover was contacted about a pistol used in a crime in Lawrence. He’d sold it about 20 years ago, and there had been at least three different owners (club members) in the interim, and perhaps several others. He was the only name they had.

The state database is a mess. I’m about to spend $20 and a notary just to see what they have in mine.

Wow

 

[LuvDog]

A friend of mine in Andover was contacted about a pistol used in a crime in Lawrence. He’d sold it about 20 years ago, and there had been at least three different owners (club members) in the interim, and perhaps several others. He was the only name they had.

The state database is a mess. I’m about to spend $20 and a notary just to see what they have in mine.

This is a good reason to never sell any guns

 

[Drix]

Oh best part.... today I reread these two piece of shit sections of law.... and found this gem...

128A: " Any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section shall comply with section 131E and shall, prior to or at the point of sale, be conducted over a real time web portal developed by the department of criminal justice information services. The department of criminal justice information services shall require each person selling or transferring a firearm, shotgun or rifle pursuant to this section to electronically provide, though the portal, such information as is determined to be necessary to verify the identification of the seller and purchaser and ensure that the sale or transfer complies with this section. Upon submission of the required information, the portal shall automatically review such information and display a message indicating whether the seller may proceed with the sale or transfer and shall provide any further instructions for the seller as determined to be necessary by the department of criminal justice information services.

I've recently learned that the portal is not real time.