Snubby Revolver Class

[The Goose]

On Saturday I took the Mastering the Defensive Snub Revolver course given by Michael (not Mike) De Bethencourt at the S&W Academy. Michael also respomds to Bobo, but not Mike. LOL! At any rate it was a great class. At the beginning Michael established that we were peers, that we were his assistant instructors and that all information could be discussed or challenged. Frankly, there was very little that I could challenge. The class was fast paced and I had the distinct impression that Michael could have continued non-stop for at least a few days without running out of information. There were 13 people in the class and they ranged from LEO's to correction officers to legally armed citizens like myself. After intros and legalities the morning was largely spent on how to load amd reload the snubby. Loose rounds, speed loaders and speed strips were covered and the pros and cons of each were experienced. Michael,s way of handling the snubby during loading and reloading was different then I and most of the class was used to, but it is very efficient and after practice began to feel natural. I will definitely stick with and practice this skill. Lunch and breaks were quick affairs and the afternoon was range time. A variety of drills were practiced, single shots, doubles, fast shots, partial reloads, slow long shots. Again it was fast paced, fun and I know that I am a better shooter today then yesterday morning. The end of the day was spent on weapon retention and touched on the snubby as an impact weapon.

The main thing I took away was that much of what I habitually practice on the range would get me killed in a gunfight. There was a lot of stress on getting the snubby reloaded and back into the fight as fast as possible, a lot of stress on partial reloads. This class presents the snubby as a fighting weapon whether close in, long range or as an impact weapon. I am a small business owner who carries a snubby for personal protection, I strongly feel that this class has given me tools and drills that I can practice that could save my life. Highly recommended.

PS. Oh yeah, I meant to mention. At the beginning of the class Michael cautioned about snubbies with internal locking systems. During the class one guy had his S&W lock up during a drill and could not get it unlocked at all. Out of commission and scary as hell!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Excellent review, thank you.

Michael has offered his services to the Second Amendment Sisters, but to date it appears that they aren't likely to take him up on his offer.

 

[USMA-82]

OK, I'll bite......


WHY NOT?

 

[DR]

This post looks familiar.

Do you know if the revolver that locked up was an Airlight, Airweight, or steel?

If you have a revolver with the lock, you (or your friendly local gunsmith) can grind the locking stud off. Then the lock can be engaged, disengaged, or flopping in between without tieing up the gun. I wouldn't sell one that way but I also try not to sell any period.

 

[Len-2A Training]

OK, I'll bite......


WHY NOT?

Ken,

At the risk of getting in trouble for saying this . . .

I can only give my perception of what is happening "internally" from my observations and discussions with another person who offered free training to the group.

- It appears that only one person is attempting to run everything at SAS. She's a very nice person but I get the impression that she is overwhelmed with all the offers and coordination that it takes to "get things together" for an event.

- Thus, a lot of stuff gets dropped by the wayside, unintentionally.

- According to a discussion that I had with Lynne R (the state coordinator), there doesn't seem to be a structured "plan" from the national level and she's making it up as she goes. Lynne R claims that Mass SAS is the most active group in the US, with monthly shoots at two different clubs (Boston and Braintree).

- Jim Conway has offered to do some free training for them a number of times. He's frustrated since he's never received a response to his offer. See www.neshooters.com for what Jim is bringing in professional defensive handgun training to the area. Jim is an instructor and wants to help impart some of these techniques to SAS, without them having to lay out the big bucks to pay the internationally recognized trainers.

- I have offered to help out as an informal RO, as my Wife and I both joined SAS and my Wife is a rookie who needs some coaching as well. A few women had asked me for some help/advise as well as how to strip down and clean a pistol and I've provided it. Lynne R readily accepted my offer initially and told me it was fine for me to be there.

- My Wife won't go to the SAS event unless I take her . . . only she knows why, as she has a car and a LTC-A/ALP. I guess the answer was in something she told me the other day . . . that she prefers that I take her to Braintree R&P rather than attending the SAS shoots (which mostly appear to me to be a "do what you want" without coaching or much in the way of tips on what works best or even ROs patrolling the range). [Keep in mind that almost all of the women attending the monthly BR&P shoots are new shooters who could use help, and other than my Wife I doubt that more than 1 or 2 have a LTC-A/ALP. I understand that many don't have any permit at all and are using guns/ammo that Lynne R brings to these events - all perfectly legal, BTW.]

- Since I was taking the Randy Cain and Gabe Suarez courses on the same weekends in June/July that SAS was at BR&P, my Wife didn't go. We showed up only to hear Michael DeBethencourt discuss what he could offer to the women (mostly unarmed, knife, OC, kubaton tactics) before the August BR&P shoot and then we had to head out to a concert. A women in SAS (that is very active and someone I know and respected) lashed out about the presence of men (Me!) and caught me totally off-guard (especially since her boyfriend used to attend the SAS shoots with her). Afterwards I spoke with Lynne R about it and asked that they make a decision on whether male members of SAS (yes, they have a male membership category) are or are not welcome. Additionally I sent a lengthy Email to the offended women and asked that we speak about the matter and that SAS come up with a firm policy, advising her that I did NOT offer help to anyone except my Wife unless asked or if I saw a serious safety infraction. Said lady is now giving my Wife and I the cold shoulder and glared at me when I said hi to her at BR&P (she is a club member) and refuses to speak to either of us!

- To the best of my knowledge, Lynne R has not addressed the ideas of having Michael DeBethencourt teach them defensive tactics to the MA SAS group (they have a private Email list for members). When I spoke with Lynne R about the above issue, I offered some thoughts to her about Michael's offer . . . suggesting a separate day/time and a 2-4 hour block for that training (based on what Michael thought would work best). There has been no mention of his offer on their private Email list since his talk in August!

- Lynne R asked for my help at the October 1st all-day shoot (I had offered some time earlier), but I told her that I would not be present at any future SAS events until they discussed internally what their policy towards male members was going to be and let me know. I don't want to make the women uncomfortable, but am willing to help if asked, or just help my Wife if allowed to do so.

- I haven't heard a word from Lynne since I talked to her in September! As it stands now, I doubt that either Deena or myself will renew our memberships in SAS when they expire. Regrettably, I firmly believe in their mission and would like to offer my assistance, but I will not force myself on them.

 

[Lynne]

Not to go OT (yet again), but I also offered to do a PP course for them a couple years back. Nothing came of it.

 

[KMaurer]

I have also told Lynne on a couple of occassions that I understood the desire of some members for having women instructors and offered to train and certify any of their people who are interested in becoming NRA/MA certified. Other than the initial thanks from Lynne, I've heard nothing.

Ken

 

[Nickle]

What a sad state of affairs.

 

[Len-2A Training]

At the Braintree R&P gun shows, Don Kusser always makes sure that SAS gets a table (free) right behind GOAL's table. 90% of the time that table is barren, nobody there, no literature, etc.

This goes back ~5 years ago, but I told Lynne R that if she got me the material for the table, I'd be sure that it got put on the table and answer what I could, refer the rest to her. I wasn't even a member then, just interested in promoting what they do. She lives ~7 miles from me and she's never taken me up on it. Only once (that I ever saw) was anyone other than Lynne R working that table, so if Lynne R can't make it, there is "no table". Meanwhile they have >60 members in MA.

It is indeed a shame!

 

[Chris]

So, I'm not the only one who's offered to run an event for them. WOW, imagine the free training that group would have had just in the ones listed above. Amazing.

As for the snubby course, that really sounds like a good one.

 

[USMA-82]

Len:

Thanks for the explanation. I understand your feelings on the matter completely.

I guess I had interpreted your initial statement as inferring that there was something wrong with Michael's instruction, and I couldn't understand it. I have found him to be a great instructor, and would be amazed if someone did NOT want him to give a class. Now I understand the problem is on the receiving end.....

All is clear.

KK

 

[Len-2A Training]

Ken,

Michael's 1 hour presentation was an eye-opener. It was riveting about the need for more than firearms training! [He didn't talk about firearms training during that session.] Personally, I thought his presentation was an intro to the best defensive training that I've ever witnessed.

I was hoping that they would run it and let me sit thru it. Michael suggested that the women bring their SOs so that they could have guinea pigs to beat up on (but he made a point of saying that he wouldn't pair them up with their own SO). A young lady who attended asked if she could bring her boyfriend to the SAS events and that is what started the firestorm by an active member of SAS.

 

[Len-2A Training]

BTW, if any of you are in contact with Michael, PLEASE invite him to join us here! I was going to do that but got busy and never got around to it.

 

[DR]

Let me put in another plug for his class. I took it last month at Harvard Sportsmen's Club. He's a great instructor and the course was well worth the price of admission.

I had never used speed strips before. Now I'm reasonably comfortable with them (my years of beer drinking finally paid off). I've got a fighting chance of reloading a snubby with only my left hand (much more likely to succeed than my previous technique). I'm flat out amazed at how accurate a snubby can be at 50 yards. And I know that I've barely scratched the surface on retention skills.

The course gave me plenty of things to digest and practice. Once I've got what I learned well grooved into my brain I'll be back for more.

Memorable quotes:

"Keep your finger through the frame!" (I heard this one a lot)

"Don't get greedy!"

"Check the time. What time is it?"

 

[DR]

And more thing: the class featured the best (and probably just as legally defensible) liability waiver I have yet seen (or heard). If only I had a singing voice that would do it justice.