Snub nose revolver help

VetteGirlMA

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Alrighty. I have now had the opportunity to take my S&W 340 to the range a few times now and have done some experimenting. As a new shooter I notice that with .38 special I can manage to get off about 25 rounds before the webbing between my thumb and first finger starts to get sore. I notice that as soon as I feel I can no longer keep my grip firm I stop firing. That magic number seems to be about 25. If I try .357 then maybe 10-15 at most before my hand is too tired and sore.

Is the hand soreness something that goes away with practice or is it possible I am holding the revolver incorrectly? I believe I am doing the correct 2 hand grip. I'm also slightly flummoxed that at 50 feet I can't hit the broad side of a barn with it, but at closer distances I can hit a target pretty well.

Is it just practice, practice practice and the soreness in the hand eventually goes away?

I have even started to try actually carrying although not loaded (ammo in another pocket). I don't feel I'm ready for that yet, but getting used to carrying is part of the carry experience I'm told.

I'm just kind of curious as to what kind of advice anyone can offer regarding my shooting experience and any pointers anyone may have. One thing I do like about the pistol is that it has a very long trigger pull and just before the bang there is a click, so I pull slowly to the click and then aim. When I do that I stand a better chance of hitting a target. Thanks in advance for any help, pointers, or advice!
 
The reason I am asking is because I feel that at this point there isn't any value in my taking additional concealed carry classes until I feel like I can handle my revolver consistently and with familiarity. It seems that those classes require firing about 200 or so rounds and honestly I feel like my hands would be beaten to a pulp at the end of the day.

With .357 the revolver kicks like a mule. I wasn't able to even hit a paper target at 25 feet. At least I was able to hit the paper target a couple of times with .38.
 
I would practice more before going onto the classes. Take your time and learn to manage the recoil the best you can. Start light and work your way up. Snub nose revolvers are the hardest to shoot accurately, especially a light 357. I have a sp101 2.25" in 357 and I can shoot no problem, the extra weight really helps.
 
My advice is to forget about .357 magnum ammo altogether. Don't ever put it in your gun again, ever. Get yourself some .38 special 125gr JHP +P or 158gr JHP +P ammo and call it plenty good enough. Next, get yourself a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips. They make 2 or 3 models for your revo. If you plan to concealed carry, I recommend the cheaper, hard plastic grips. They won't pull or drag on your clothing. The more expensive grips make for more comfortable shooting, but when carrying
under clothing they tend to
pull or drag and that makes for printing, which you don't want. Don't really worry about this because the gun is meant to be carried a lot, but shot very little. Once you put the lasergrips on and shoot another 25-50 rounds to practice with it you are pretty much done shooting that gun. It's a carry gun, not a range gun. It's meant for distances out to about 25 feet, to save your life. You shouldn't be shooting in a self defense scenario at anything 50 feet away so don't worry about it too much. If you want to do a lot of shooting/practice, get yourself a bigger, heavier revolver and shoot that. The mechanics are the same so your skills will improve without beating yourself up.

Enjoy
-Cuz

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner instead of Tapatalk.
 
VG, I'd suggest shooting what is most comfortable. If 38 is better than 357 for you, then by all means, don't even bring 357 to the range. Shooting and self defense does not have to be painful. I have lots of J frame revolvers, both light weight and steel. When I carry one of them, I prefer the light ones, which as you now know, are not able to absorb much of, if any, of the kick... I use 38 special at the range and while carrying. If carrying a revolver is your choice, there are other revolver choices out there. I purchased a model 351c last year, it shoots 22 mag bullets and holds 7 rounds. I love that gun, don't carry often as I prefer my 40 Shield, but when I do, I feel 100% confident in my ability to protect myself. It's a great gun with little to know kick!

As for hitting the target, no matter what you are shooting, work on relaxing, breathing and the frt sight not moving when you squeeze the trigger. I did lots of dry firing with my guns early on and really focused on the frt of the barrel not moving when I pulled the trigger. That is one of the best practices you can do, and it's cheap.. [grin] Also, I recommend you don't practice shooting any further than 7 yds, that is standard distance for self defense. It may seem close, but think about it, chances of a good shot beyond that is most likely jail time and chances of a self defense situation, is closer than that. In fact, I do a lot of practice point and shooting, don't really look for the sights, as most aggressive actions are going to allow for the time to aim a whole lot.... this ain't the movies..

Good luck, there is lots I could share, but my ADHD is kicking in.... keep it simple and work on a little at a time.
 
J-Frames aren't meant for a fun day at the range. They're made to be used at VERY close range, and hopefully no more than one full cylinder.


A couple things I will recommend:

1) LOTS of dry fire. Watch the sights while you're doing it, and make sure the gun isn't drifting all over the place while you're pulling the trigger

2) Live fire with weak ammo. The low-power stuff will let you get more shots in before it becomes uncomfortable, and give you a better chance to find adjustments you might want to make to your grip.

3) Occasionally run some carry ammo through it, one cylinder at a time, at realistic ranges.


You don't want to get to the point where you associate shooting the gun with pain. Take it easy.
 
practice with a round that you can comfortably shoot. for all the talk about caliber choices and penetration and stopping power, what really counts is shot placement. better a 38 spl round in the eyeball than a 357 magnum in the arm of the bad guy
 
25 rounds of full power .38's through a J frame sounds fairly painful to me. I've been shooting for 30+ years and I don't enjoy anymore than 20-25 rounds through a compact revolver with full power stuff. Like Atmay said, lots and lots of dry fire practice (with no ammo anywhere near the room....can't be stressed enough) while paying attention to your sight picture, grip and trigger squeeze. You don't want to keep hurting yourself with the gun. You'll develop a serious flinch, which can take a long time to go away. If you're worried about how you're holding the handgun, ask one of the older members of whatever club you're going to for some pointers. They might be able to give you some tips.
 
Snubnose revolvers are notoriously difficult to shoot, especially for new shooters. Having made the same mistake before, I'd go as far as to say that it's a terrible gun to learn how to shoot with.

That being said, I'll echo what was said above: lots and lots of dry fire practice (daily if you can) and then weak .38 rounds at the range.
 
My carry gun of choice (and my wife's) has been a snubby for many years now. These days it is a Ruger LCR .38, but before that it was always an S&W j frame .38. I have taken snubby specific classes with Michael de Bethencourt and at the Sig Academy. In my opinion my snubby is strictly a self defense handgun, period. I have other larger handguns that I shoot for accuracy and general enjoyment, but I carry the snubby for protection and I train with it. Most of my practice is at about 12 feet. Since I pocket carry that is the way I practice. If I have the range to myself (alone) I will typically walk from the target back about a dozen feet, turn, draw and fire. I shoot all 5 shots as fast as I can and then reload. I carry speed strips for ease of concealment so that is what I practice with. I do acquire the front sight, but it is not as much an aim as a point. If I can keep all 5 shots in about 5 inches I am satisfied. I practice both 1 and 2 hand holds and very occasionally left hand. I will usually end a session with a couple of cylinders of +p .38, but since I reload I shoot some fairly light loads for most practice. Squeezing the trigger until it "clicks" is called staging and although OK for deliberate single well aimed shots it is probably a bad habit from a self defense perspective. Just my .02. If my life was on the line I want to put as many rounds as fast as possible into the center of mass which makes hitting a golfball sized target at 50 feet pretty much irrelevant. I believe that you will fight the way that you train. I have also practiced shooting through a coat pocket at bad breath range which is kind of fun, but rough on the coat.

My last comment would be to seek out a snubby specific training class sooner as opposed to later. This will help you to acquire proper training techniques. A general concealed carry or defensive handgun class could be difficult with a snubby. Perhaps even discouraging. Shooting next to a person (or whole class) with a full sized semi auto could be daunting. The heavier pistol with a longer sight radius shoots faster, more accurately and reloads faster. Again just my .02.
 
J frames are to be fired little and carried alot. I can shoot a j frame all day but have big hands and enjoy a little pain. J frames are designed for close in self defense. If you like recolvers and want one to shoot at the range get a gp100 or 686. Those are also good for double duty as the bedroom gun.
 
You sure picked a handfull for a gun. I shot a 340 once with .357 and that was enough for me. That being said, there is some good advice here and I'll add mine.
As others have said, you'll probably find .38 Special easier to shoot in that gun. It will be effective enough for self defense and much cheaper for practice.
For ammunition, I recommend either Speer 135 grain Lawman jacketed hollow point (JHP) or Winchester PDX1 130 grain JHP. Both are softer recoiling rounds designed for short barreled guns. 158 grain ammunition isn't optimal for a snub nose.

I used 130 grain target rounds for practice in my 642. That's a bit heavier than your 340, but is otherwise pretty much the same.

When I take my 642 to the range, I plan to shoot 50-100 rounds at a time. How many I actually shoot depends on how my hand feels as I shoot. 100 rounds through a snub nose is a lot. I'm impressed that you can put 15 rounds of .357 through your gun. I was done at five when I shot my friends .357.

I also recommend you look at the Ergo Grip Delta Grip. Ugly as hell, but they absorb a lot of recoil and they help the gun point more accurately. I've had any number of new shooters try my 642 with those grips and they are very happy with the results. You can get them for under $20.00 on line.

I think someone else mentioned that the J frame guns are designed for close in shooting. That's correct and most people can't hit much at 50 feet with them. I'm one of them. I practice at between 15-21 feet depending on where on the range I am shooting. This is a close range, self defense gun, practice with that in mind.

Practice aiming BEFORE you start the trigger pull. If, God forbid, you ever have to use the gun in self defense, you won't have the luxury of a slow trigger pull. For that reason, get your sights aligned on the target first, then pull the trigger.

I think GOAL runs classes on using a snub nose gun for self defense. Check their website. I think you'll get a lot of benefit from in person instruction by experienced instructors.

I strongly recommend carrying in public with an unloaded firearm. Practice carrying around your home with the gun unloaded to get used to the feel.

Your goal is, or should be, to be able to carry the firearm with confidence that if you need to use it, you can do so effectively and safely. Beating up your hand will work against that goal because you won't want to practice and you'll be afraid of the gun. You're better off with 38 than you are with .357 for that reason alone.
 
The small revolvers are not great range guns. I have a 36 and it gets uncomfortable pretty quick. As others have said lighter ammo may help. If you know someone who reloads have them make you some weak ammo for practice shooting.
The other obvious option is to get something else like a compact 380 or 9 to use to practice shooting even if you still want to carry the revolver.Live fire with your carry gun is the best practice, but live fire with any gun is better than not shooting. it gets you used to recoil, noise, reloading etc. You dont get any of that with dry fire
 
Try some padded shooting gloves like these for practice. I'm not endorsing this particular glove, so do your shopping: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1125191321/past-professional-shooting-gloves-fingerless-leather

Dry fire has been mentioned, and as a bonus to helping your aim, it will also smooth out the trigger after some time. Add some Crimson Trace laser grips and aim at a small spot on the other side of the room. A light switch for example. Pull the trigger and watch where the dot goes. Left, right, up, down? Then you can work to correct.

Crimson Trace makes a j-frame grip that has padding that is higher on the backstrap than normal. It's what I use. They work great.

Finally, look into getting a trigger job. There's almost nothing good about a stock j-frame trigger.
 
...get yourself a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips. They make 2 or 3 models for your revo. If you plan to concealed carry, I recommend the cheaper, hard plastic grips. They won't pull or drag on your clothing. The more expensive grips make for more comfortable shooting, but when carrying under clothing they tend to pull or drag and that makes for printing, which you don't want.

I wrote about laser grips in another of your threads, VetteGirl, but you started this new thread, and I'm not sure if you saw it. The problem with printing that Cuz points out doesn't happen with the grips that I recommended because the parts that touch your clothing are smooth plastic, and the soft rubber is in the web of your hand where you need it. I don't want to retype it, so I'll just quote what I wrote:

...laser sights would help a lot if that revolver is to be used for self-defense. These would be a good choice because they feature "an innovative air pocket on top of the backstrap that effectively reduces felt recoil up to 30%": Crimson Trace LG-405

Even with the laser and reduced recoil from those grips, quick follow-up shots will require significant practice.

Hint: if you're right handed, keep your thumb well away from the cylinder release when you fire it (curl your thumb down and grip hard) because if that hits your knuckle, you'll end up bloody.

In case you don't already know this, you want your hand as high up on the backstrap as possible. That will help mitigate recoil somewhat for faster follow-up shots, which is an ability you want in a self-defense situation. It would be good if you could get an experienced revolver shooter to make sure you're using the proper grip so you don't practice incorrectly.

Staging the trigger to the "click" like you're doing is fine for accurate target shooting, and that's a good place to start, but for self-defense you want to train to the point where you can press the trigger straight back quickly and fire the revolver without moving the sights off target (same with the red dot if you get laser grips). Lots of dry firing will help you learn to do that, and that doesn't cost anything but time.

I have some thoughts on ammo too, that haven't been mentioned, but that will have to wait.
 
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Isn't 50 feet a bit much for a snub nose? I thought maybe 7-14 feet defensive ranges are best to practice at with a snub?
 
Thanks for this! I wonder if gloves like this are available locally. I am thinking of going to the range this weekend and try some of these great suggestions. The last time I went to the range I was all alone and had the place to myself.


I got mine at Four Seasons about five years ago. Call your local gun shop and ask.
 
I have a S&W 642. It is a 16 oz .38 Special. I find it painful to shoot. You can reduce that pain by changing to fullsize, padded boot grips, but then the gun won't fit in your pocket, which defeats the purpose of a lightweight J-frame.

The 340 is a 13 oz .357. It is going to hurt when you shoot .38 Spcl. It will hurt a lot more when you shoot .357. There really is no getting around physics.

The various S&W super lightweight J-frames cost significantly more than a 442/642. IMO, all they do is convert $$$ into recoil pain. I don't see the point.

My 642 has been replaced with my Kahr PM9. The PM9 is a lot more comfortable shoot, it has real sights, it holds more, it is easier to conceal, and it is faster to reload.
 
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Why would you even attempt to shoot something fifty feet away with that gun?

Isn't it pretty much a personal defense / CQB gun? I imagine most engagements will be inside ten feet, with 25 being a stretch.

Nice gun. Good luck with it.

Oh, and this:
http://www.hornady.com/store/38-Special-90-gr-FTX-Critical-Defense-lite/

the range I belong to states that minimum firing distance for indoors is 25 feet. Just for the heck of it I tried it farther away. I figure how will I never know anything about my revolver unless I try it.
 
The reason you can't hit at longer distances is because the snubnose revolver is very unforgiving of less than perfect sight alignment and trigger squeeze. You've chosen a difficult revolver to learn with but you can do it with practice. Some will tell you that a snubnose is not accurate at long range. That's bullsh*t. I shoot mine at 100 yards and I'm going to try it at 200 yards next. Your gun is very light and has a lot of recoil for the caliber. I'd try some .38 wadcutters and practice sight alignment and trigger squeeze. They are very important but even more so with a snubnose. Don't get discouraged. You'll get there.
 
If Jerry Miculek can do it, everyone can do it. But, I'm not Jerry. So I rather shoot my snub @ 15 ft.

Sent from my Tinfoil hat
 
The reason you can't hit at longer distances is because the snubnose revolver is very unforgiving of less than perfect sight alignment and trigger squeeze. You've chosen a difficult revolver to learn with but you can do it with practice. Some will tell you that a snubnose is not accurate at long range. That's bullsh*t. I shoot mine at 100 yards and I'm going to try it at 200 yards next. Your gun is very light and has a lot of recoil for the caliber. I'd try some .38 wadcutters and practice sight alignment and trigger squeeze. They are very important but even more so with a snubnose. Don't get discouraged. You'll get there.

While what you say is true, it takes a lot of practice to reach that level of proficiency. The people I know that can do that shoot thousands of rounds a year and have been doing it for years. A friend of mine in Texas can hit 9 inch plates at 100 yards with either a 2" Model 10 or his Model 36. He's been shooting since he was 8 or so. For VetteGirlMA, I think shooting at 15-21 feet is a reasonable place to start. Using wadcutters is good idea too, at least until she's comfortable shooting.

What she most likely needs is some coaching by a good instructor.
 
I know that I mentioned this before.. But now that you have had a bit of experience with the m&p 340 I'll mention it again..

The 340 is a really cool gun. That said, no real way around it, it is just no fun to shoot. Work on your grip? Absolutely. Lighter loads? Can't hurt. Gloves? Try some. But, all that it will probably still not ever be fun.

If you think that you really want to make the m&p your long term carry guns. Then you may want to get a steel snub for practicing with and shoot as much as you can through it and carry the m&p.

- - - Updated - - -

But try an all steel with some moderate/ lighter 38spl first....
 
[/QUOTE] One thing I do like about the pistol is that it has a very long trigger pull and just before the bang there is a click, so I pull slowly to the click and then aim. When I do that I stand a better chance of hitting a target. Thanks in advance for any help, pointers, or advice![/QUOTE]

Please do not pull the trigger at all before aiming! Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire.
 
Get yourself an APEX kit: Reduce trigger pull from 12#'s to 9#'s...

https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/192058

J-Frame3.jpg
 
Get yourself an APEX kit: Reduce trigger pull from 12#'s to 9#'s...


Do you think that if I brought my pistol to my friendly neighborhood gun shop, that they can do this type of modification? I watched the video and it looks like I would have to buy some specialized tools to do this work and truthfully I would rather let someone who has the tools and know how to do it.
 
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