Sniper killed on training course after 'big boys rules' led to poor supervision

[nstassel]

Sniper killed on training course after 'big boys rules' led to poor supervision

The Army snipers' culture of 'big boys rules' led to the death of a trainee marksman who shot himself in the face, a report has found.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Wow. "LCpl Spencer was observed resting the butt of his rifle on his boot, with the suppressor, located at the end of the barrel, under his chin. The Inquiry concluded that as he bounced the rifle up and down the trigger snagged on a piece of equipment lying on the floor, resulting in the weapon functioning."

 

[Sauer Grapes]

This is a horrible incident that should never had occurred.
This U.K. article was released August '18, reporting the death of LCpl Spencer in November '16. Did something happen
bringing this to light now?

 

[nstassel]

This is a horrible incident that should never had occurred.
This U.K. article was released August '18, reporting the death of LCpl Spencer in November '16. Did something happen
bringing this to light now?

IDK I stumbled into it and the story was of interest.

 

[Cap]

I hear its not a good idea to have your gun aimed at your head.

 

[sigfanboy13]

Sounds like a suicide cover up to me. There is no way you fit a .338 Lapua suppressed between your neck and boot and have it snag on something unless your 8ft tall.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

So.... big boy rules includes pointing guns at your face? Sounds more like Clinton Arkansas rules

 

[gerrycaruso]

It says Army sniper but the rank is listed as LCpl which is a Marine rank. No one has ever accused Marines of being normal but I think that putting the muzzle of a loaded and cocked rifle under your chin is something that even they wouldn't do.

 

[Gasgunner]

It’s from the UK not the US.

 

[Andy in NH]

So.... big boy rules includes pointing guns at your face? Sounds more like Clinton Arkansas rules

As an associate says with regard to the big boy rules, "Not to mention basic Rule 2 violation. Of course, it always someone else's fault. "

 

[mibro]

Sounds like a suicide cover up to me. There no way you fit a .338 Lapua supressed between your neck and boot and have it snag on something unless your 8ft tall.

Agree 100%. Unless something has changed drastically that kind of weapons handling nonsense is not tolerated in British Army culture. Big boys don't point loaded rifles at their faces. What they mean by "big boys' rules" is he wasn't being directly supervised at that time by someone who might have stopped him.

It says Army sniper but the rank is listed as LCpl which is a Marine rank. No one has ever accused Marines of being normal but I think that putting the muzzle of a loaded and cocked rifle under your chin is something that even they wouldn't do.

Lance Corporal, British Army junior NCO.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Don't point it at anything you are not willing to destroy.

 

[Cur]

PSG;WSP.

 

[weekendracer]

I had a guy bragging about changing targets while others were shooting on the line. Pretty sure the look I gave him said, "Do that to me and you'll need a doctor to remove it".

 

[Evadd]

“He was not on active deployment in a war zone. He was in training where risk to life should have been minimal. Joe should have come home.”

I'm very sorry she lost a loved one, but he would have come home had he not pointed his gun at his face.

 

[SIGaddict]

The mind boggles at the destruction of a .338 point-blank under the chin.

 

[Admin]

"LCpl Spencer was observed resting the butt of his rifle on his boot, with the suppressor, located at the end of the barrel, under his chin."

I just want to clarify the above is not "big-boy rules", far from it. The above is negligence from the dead Marine and any other Marine who saw the behavior and didn't correct it.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Remember the police sniper that shot his boss in RI during training 10-15 yrs ago?

 

[frenchman]

"LCpl Spencer was observed resting the butt of his rifle on his boot, with the suppressor, located at the end of the barrel, under his chin."

I just want to clarify the above is not "big-boy rules", far from it. The above is negligence from the dead Marine and any other Marine who saw the behavior and didn't correct it.

Go with the program, Marine. Spencer was a Brit. Probably light infantry.
Well, he could've been a Royal Marine tho, aka Cabbage heads.

 

[Andy in NH]

Go with the program, Marine. Spencer was a Brit. Probably light infantry.
Well, he could've been a Royal Marine tho, aka Cabbage heads.

British Army, 3rd Battalion, The Rifles.

 

[drgrant]

I had a guy bragging about changing targets while others were shooting on the line. Pretty sure the look I gave him said, "Do that to me and you'll need a doctor to remove it".

This isn't -entirely- verboten... depends on context....


View: https://youtu.be/dZKy_63dYZs

 

[weekendracer]

This isn't -entirely- verboten... depends on context....


View: https://youtu.be/dZKy_63dYZs

I didn't misspeak, the guy was walking downrange while the range was hot to change targets. This was not an HRT type. I'm all for 'realistic' training, I've pushed for practicing bounding fire drills. Set up clear lanes of movement and move slowly, learn it for that once in a century a LEO has to do it. But good Lord Almighty, just waltzing downrange to check your target is level 50 retardation.

 

[drgrant]

I didn't misspeak, the guy was walking downrange while the range was hot to change targets. This was not an HRT type. I'm all for 'realistic' training, I've pushed for practicing bounding fire drills. Set up clear lanes of movement and move slowly, learn it for that once in a century a LEO has to do it. But good Lord Almighty, just waltzing downrange to check your target is level 50 retardation.

I'm just giving you hard time, I realize the guy you're talking about is a dickbag, but rifle pits were the first thing I thought of when you said "changing targets while downrange".

-Mike

 

[weekendracer]

I'm just giving you hard time, I realize the guy you're talking about is a dickbag, but rifle pits were the first thing I thought of when you said "changing targets while downrange".

-Mike

I know, but as much as it hurts to type out what was actually going on, I really wish I could call BS on my own story. I'll never bring it up again, it's bad enough I heard it in passing, if I actually pushed and validated the story, it'd be worse.

I hope all that hard core training pays off if I'm ever in that situation with him though. I'll be right behind him.

 

[fencer]

It says Army sniper but the rank is listed as LCpl which is a Marine rank. No one has ever accused Marines of being normal but I think that putting the muzzle of a loaded and cocked rifle under your chin is something that even they wouldn't do.

....... Absolutely hilarious. Would make a great signature line.

I have to call bull shit on this one. I can not possibly imagine even the dumbest of humans resting their chin on the muzzle, and bouncing the rifle up and down. I think it is much more likely that he committed suicide, and for whatever reason, those who witnessed it are saying it was accidental. And, he got the trigger snagged on a "piece of equipment"? ...C'mon.
Now, if this young Corporal really did meet his demise in the manner reported, he was about as sharp as a bowling ball.

 

[Spanz]

wow. after all that training, to forget the FIRST RULE your pappy taught you long ago...."never point a gun at anything you do not want to shoot."

 

[AntiHippie]

I had a guy bragging about changing targets while others were shooting on the line. Pretty sure the look I gave him said, "Do that to me and you'll need a doctor to remove it".

You know, there's some people I don't even want to shoot on the same range with, but I have a couple friends that I would not feel endangered changing targets while they were shooting. I would never ACTUALLY do it because that would be dumb as all hell, but I'm confident they wouldn't throw a round so wild it hit me. But still, not willing to prove it. That's just a horrendously bad idea.

 

[sigfanboy13]

So is there a consensus about what "big boy" rules are? I had a rifle class where you could have a slinged loaded rifle as long as it was pointed at the ground, it saved a ton of time of having to load an unload/show clear as we went up individually to the line for personal instruction. But this class was with all the regular competition guys, so everyone knew everyone.

 

[whacko]

All of you non military veterans would shit if I told you how many times I've seen soldiers rest their chin on the muzzle of an m4 or m16 in my 25 year career. Not saying the behavior is "ok"......just stating that it's common practice in the army.....very common.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

All of you non military veterans would shit if I told you how many times I've seen soldiers rest their chin on the muzzle of an m4 or m16 in my 25 year career. Not saying the behavior is "ok"......just stating that it's common practice in the army.....very common.

No... many of us wouldn't. We just wouldn't call it big boy rules

 

[whacko]

No... many of us wouldn't. We just wouldn't call it big boy rules

Perhaps I should edit "all" to "alot".