SNHU Arena (formally Verizon Wireless Arena) Letter

[mikem317]

As noted in another thread, I was able to get the town of Chester to modify their signage at the Wason Pond recreational area to no longer prohibit the carrying of firearms within the area: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/170079-Wason-Pond-Chester-NH-Guns-Allowed-(We-Win!)

The SNHU Arena in Manchester, formally the Verizon Wireless Arena, prohibits the possession of firearms and other "weapons" unless you're an "on-duty law enforcement officer". All others are disallowed. When I went their last year, I didn't think much of it. I thought it was a private enterprise and they can do what they wish.

I recently discovered that the SNHU Arena is actually owned by the City of Manchester according to the most recent tax assessment. A political subdivision within the state of New Hampshire.

RSA 159:26 allows only for the state of New Hampshire to regulate "sale, use, possession, etc." of firearms and knives. Not political subdivisions, like cities and towns.

I plan on drafting a letter addressed to the SNHU front office, Mayor Gatsas, and the city alderman/aldermen.

Any thoughts? I'll post my letter to this thread for everyone's review once it's done. I figure this is a good first step and might be just as effective as with Chester/Wason Pond.

Here's my draft:

Dear SNHU Arena Manager:

It has come to my attention the Southern New Hampshire University (SNHU) Arena, formally the Verizon Wireless Arena, in Manchester, New Hampshire explicitly states that firearms are prohibited from entry into the site, unless carried by an on-duty law enforcement officer. According to the SNHU website:

"...the following items are not permitted inside the SNHU Arena: Weapons of any kind to include, but not limited to, knives, guns, chains or clubs. No off duty law enforcement personnel are allowed in to the arena with a firearm and/or weapon of any kind"

According to the most recent tax assessment on the Vision Appraisal website, the SNHU Arena, located at 555 Elm Street, is currently owned by the City of Manchester, New Hampshire. The Vision Appraisal website notes that the applicable Hillsborough County book/page: 6225/ 934 with a recorded sale date of 4/4/2000 .

New Hampshire Revised Statutes Annotated (RSA) 159:26 establishes state preemption over New Hampshire firearm laws and renders all municipal ordinances and regulations null and void . Emphasis added:

“I. To the extent consistent with federal law, the state of New Hampshire shall have authority and jurisdiction over the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, firearms supplies, or knives in the state. Except as otherwise specifically provided by statute, no ordinance or regulation of a political subdivision may regulate the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting a political subdivision's right to adopt zoning ordinances for the purpose of regulating firearms or knives businesses in the same manner as other businesses or to take any action allowed under RSA 207:59.
II. Upon the effective date of this section, all municipal ordinances and regulations not authorized under paragraph I relative to the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearm components, ammunition, firearms supplies, or knives shall be null and void.”

Provided that Manchester, New Hampshire is a “political subdivision” within the state of New Hampshire, the prohibition of carry of firearms and knives is a direct violation of this RSA. My humble suggestion is to modify all digital and physical signage, both physical and on the website, and to adopt new security policies and protocols that fully conform to RSA 159:26.

 

[noxin]

end it with "Cut the shit you dooooche nozzles!" ?

 

[ChevyGuy91]

LIKE!

I recall NHFC shitting all over Ted Gatsas for this very thing recently.

 

[mikem317]

The sad part was Gatsas was shaking hands at my local polling station this morning. Should have mentioned it then!

 

[KBCraig]

SNHU won't care; they are a private entity with an advertising deal. Any sports leagues or performing artists with contracts to the arena won't care; they are more likely to carry their business elsewhere.

And Gatsas won't care, because he's a slimy politician.

Will the NH courts care? It's not likely, since they ruled that the NH public universities are free to ban guns, not being "political subdivisions", even though they are government entities and have no authority not authorized by the General Court.

There is only one area of law where I think Texas gets it right: that when government owns a piece of property and then leases or licenses it, the lessor cannot convey any rights to the lessee that they do not have. And so, if any government entity owns or leases property, anyone who rents or subleases that property cannot ban anything there (like guns, alcohol, minorities, or anything else) unless state law authorizes it.

 

[Waumbec Weaponry]

Concealed is concealed

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Concealed is concealed

Last time I was there I actually had to walk back to the car and ditch the biscuit because they were patting people down at the door.

 

[mikem317]

Alright, I posted my draft.

This is the "SNHU Manager" version. I plan on creating similar ones to Mayor Gatsas, the Ordinance Violations Department Director, the Ward 3 Alderman (Patrick Long) and the Chief of Police.

Also, if there's anybody else that should be contacted (the Manchester state reps, Senators?) please let me know.

- - - Updated - - -

Concealed is concealed

Doesn't work like that. They're wanding and searching people, irrespective and in direct violation of the RSA.

- - - Updated - - -

SNHU won't care; they are a private entity with an advertising deal. Any sports leagues or performing artists with contracts to the arena won't care; they are more likely to carry their business elsewhere.

And Gatsas won't care, because he's a slimy politician.

Will the NH courts care? It's not likely, since they ruled that the NH public universities are free to ban guns, not being "political subdivisions", even though they are government entities and have no authority not authorized by the General Court.

There is only one area of law where I think Texas gets it right: that when government owns a piece of property and then leases or licenses it, the lessee cannot convey any rights to the lessor that they do not have. And so, if any government entity owns or leases property, anyone who rents or subleases that property cannot ban anything there (like guns, alcohol, minorities, or anything else) unless state law authorizes it.

SNHU just has naming rights. They don't own it. The City of Manchester owns the physical property of 555 Elm Street.

I hope I have the same luck I had with Chester.

 

[nhpoke]

Really nice work! Some minor edits. Feel free to take / reject them as you see fit...


It has come to my attention the Southern New Hampshire University (SNHU) Arena, formerly the Verizon Wireless Arena, in Manchester, New Hampshire explicitly states that firearms are prohibited from entry into the site, unless they are carried by an on-duty law enforcement officer. According to the SNHU Arena website:

"...the following items are not permitted inside the SNHU Arena: Weapons of any kind to include, but not limited to, knives, guns, chains or clubs. No off duty law enforcement personnel are allowed in to (sic)the arena with a firearm and/or weapon of any kind"

According to the most recent tax assessment on the Vision Appraisal website, the SNHU Arena, located at 555 Elm Street, is currently owned by the City of Manchester, New Hampshire. The Vision Appraisal website notes that the applicable Hillsborough County book/page: 6225/ 934 with a recorded sale date of 4/4/2000 .

New Hampshire Revised Statutes Annotated (RSA) 159:26 establishes state preemption over New Hampshire firearm laws and renders all municipal ordinances and regulations null and void . Emphasis added:

“I. To the extent consistent with federal law, the state of New Hampshire shall have authority and jurisdiction over the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, firearms supplies, or knives in the state. Except as otherwise specifically provided by statute, no ordinance or regulation of a political subdivision may regulate the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting a political subdivision's right to adopt zoning ordinances for the purpose of regulating firearms or knives businesses in the same manner as other businesses or to take any action allowed under RSA 207:59.
II. Upon the effective date of this section, all municipal ordinances and regulations not authorized under paragraph I relative to the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearm components, ammunition, firearms supplies, or knives shall be null and void.”

Provided that the owner of SNHU Arena, the City of Manchester, New Hampshire is a “political subdivision” within the state of New Hampshire, the prohibition of firearms and knives is a direct violation of this existing state law. Please modify all digital and physical signage, as well as policy, to comply with RSA 159:26.

 

[thormx538]

I'm not even sure their wands have batteries. I may or may not have had a wand pass directly over my G26 without it going off. This was a couple of years ago.

 

[tk421991]

SNHU won't care; they are a private entity with an advertising deal. Any sports leagues or performing artists with contracts to the arena won't care; they are more likely to carry their business elsewhere.

And Gatsas won't care, because he's a slimy politician.

Will the NH courts care? It's not likely, since they ruled that the NH public universities are free to ban guns, not being "political subdivisions", even though they are government entities and have no authority not authorized by the General Court.

There is only one area of law where I think Texas gets it right: that when government owns a piece of property and then leases or licenses it, the lessee cannot convey any rights to the lessor that they do not have. And so, if any government entity owns or leases property, anyone who rents or subleases that property cannot ban anything there (like guns, alcohol, minorities, or anything else) unless state law authorizes it.

This, OMFG this!

While it's nice that you're trying, they're going to tell you to pound sand. I would go after a smaller target if you want to do some 2A activism.

If you really want to do this, I would gather info on how other arenas/indoor stadiums/hockey rinks handle weapons policies. If you can cite other examples of places that allow legal CC, you'd have a slightly better shot than simply telling them that they're not following the law.

 

[KBCraig]

SNHU just has naming rights. They don't own it. The City of Manchester owns the physical property of 555 Elm Street.

That was my point: SNHU shouldn't have any rights not inherited from Manchester, but the courts will most likely say that they do.

 

[Tater]

GO FOR IT..... TAKE IT BACK ONE LOCATION AT A TIME.

 

[mikem317]

This, OMFG this!

While it's nice that you're trying, they're going to tell you to pound sand. I would go after a smaller target if you want to do some 2A activism.

If you really want to do this, I would gather info on how other arenas/indoor stadiums/hockey rinks handle weapons policies. If you can cite other examples of places that allow legal CC, you'd have a slightly better shot than simply telling them that they're not following the law.

I already "helped" Chester with Wason Pond, "helped" Raymond PD stop requiring photo ID for P&Rs, and think this is a worthy project. Hopefully I get a positive response.

GO FOR IT..... TAKE IT BACK ONE LOCATION AT A TIME.

Thanks!

 

[ChevyGuy91]

I already "helped" Chester with Wason Pond, "helped" Raymond PD stop requiring photo ID for P&Rs, and think this is a worthy project. Hopefully I get a positive response.



Thanks!

Your work is much appreciated.

 

[JayMcB]

Does "BUT GUNZ FREE ZONEZ FOR THE CHILDRENZ" trump the RSA in NH, because SNHU might run events there from time to time?

Or has that poison that lives in MA not extend into NH?

 

[drgrant]

Are there specific carve outs in RSAs for things like prisons, courthouses, and holding areas in police stations? Or are some of these GFZs "cuz we said so" variety?

-Mike

 

[KBCraig]

Are there specific carve outs in RSAs for things like prisons, courthouses, and holding areas in police stations? Or are some of these GFZs "cuz we said so" variety?

-Mike

RSA 59 lists the only place that is statutorily off limits for guns: courthouses.

Prisons and such are covered by "you're not allowed in, guns or otherwise".

 

[drgrant]

RSA 59 lists the only place that is statutorily off limits for guns: courthouses.

Prisons and such are covered by "you're not allowed in, guns or otherwise".

So basically, the state is free to restrict guns by virtue of the fact that whatever facility is not "open to the public" per se, like the arena is.

-Mike

 

[KBCraig]

So basically, the state is free to restrict guns by virtue of the fact that whatever facility is not "open to the public" per se, like the arena is.

-Mike

Pretty much. The state supreme court really muffed it when they ruled the state university system is not a political subdivision of the state, and can therefore ban guns if they wish.

 

[mikem317]

Are there specific carve outs in RSAs for things like prisons, courthouses, and holding areas in police stations? Or are some of these GFZs "cuz we said so" variety?

-Mike

RSA 59 lists the only place that is statutorily off limits for guns: courthouses.

Prisons and such are covered by "you're not allowed in, guns or otherwise".

And even more specifically is any part of the courthouse that's past the front facade. In other words, you can walk into a courthouse in NH, temporarily surrender your firearm(s) and they proceed into the courthouse.

 

[mikem317]

Here's the latest and greatest. I plan on heading to the PO today before 5:00 PM.

I will be CC'ing Mayor Ted Gatsas, Alderman Patrick Long, Police Chief Nick Willard. I might also CC my State Senator, John Reagan, who doesn't represent Manchester but is a very pro-2A guy.

<Name>

Thursday, September 29, 2016

SNHU Arena Manager
Southern New Hampshire University Arena
555 Elm Street
Manchester, NH 03101

SUBJECT: RSA Violation

Dear SNHU Arena Manager:

It has come to my attention the Southern New Hampshire University (SNHU) Arena, formerly the Verizon Wireless Arena, in Manchester, New Hampshire explicitly states that firearms are prohibited from entry into the site, unless they are carried by an on-duty law enforcement officer. According to the SNHU Arena website :

"...the following items are not permitted inside the SNHU Arena: Weapons of any kind to include, but not limited to, knives, guns, chains or clubs. No off duty law enforcement personnel are allowed in to the arena with a firearm and/or weapon of any kind"

According to the most recent tax assessment on the Vision Appraisal website the property located at 555 Elm Street, is currently owned by the City of Manchester, New Hampshire and is the SNHU Arena. The Vision Appraisal website notes that the applicable Hillsborough County book/page: 6225/ 934 with a recorded sale date of 4/4/2000 .

New Hampshire Revised Statutes Annotated (RSA) 159:26 establishes state preemption over New Hampshire firearm laws and renders all municipal ordinances and regulations null and void . My emphasis added:

“I. To the extent consistent with federal law, the state of New Hampshire shall have authority and jurisdiction over the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, firearms supplies, or knives in the state. Except as otherwise specifically provided by statute, no ordinance or regulation of a political subdivision may regulate the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting a political subdivision's right to adopt zoning ordinances for the purpose of regulating firearms or knives businesses in the same manner as other businesses or to take any action allowed under RSA 207:59.

II. Upon the effective date of this section, all municipal ordinances and regulations not authorized under paragraph I relative to the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearm components, ammunition, firearms supplies, or knives shall be null and void.”

Provided that the owner of the SNHU Area, the City of Manchester, New Hampshire is a “political subdivision” within the state of New Hampshire, the prohibition of firearms and knives is a direct violation of the existing state law. Please modify all digital and physical signage, both physical and on the website, as well as policy that fully conforms to RSA 159:26.

Regards,
<Name>

CC: <Names>

 

[mikem317]

FYI, the SNHU Arena subcontracts his operations to SMG. The name of the General Manager is Tim Bechert according to my research.

IF anybody has updated information, please IM or post ASAP.

 

[SpeedOften]

Here's the latest and greatest. I plan on heading to the PO today before 5:00 PM.

I will be CC'ing Mayor Ted Gatsas, Alderman Patrick Long, Police Chief Nick Willard. I might also CC my State Senator, John Reagan, who doesn't represent Manchester but is a very pro-2A guy.

Looks good to me...

 

[Kaldone]

Might I recommend sending a copy to Tammy Simmons, she is a Manchester Ward 10 Rep who is Pro-2A.

 

[mikem317]

Might I recommend sending a copy to Tammy Simmons, she is a Manchester Ward 10 Rep who is Pro-2A.

Awesome, thanks. I might just email the others, as the postage is starting to add up!

Unfortunately, the state senator (D'Allesandro) and the two reps are both Democrats. Interestingly, the Ward 3 Alderman, Patrick Long, is also the state rep.

 

[KBCraig]

CC Keith Murphy, too. Although he represents Bedford, his business (Murphy's Taproom) is right across the intersection from the arena. Keith is pro-2A.

 

[mikem317]

Letters were delivered on Saturday.

- - - Updated - - -

CC Keith Murphy, too. Although he represents Bedford, his business (Murphy's Taproom) is right across the intersection from the arena. Keith is pro-2A.

Thanks. NES screen name?

 

[boscru]

to: mikem317

from: me

well written & well thought out letter.

i could say i have no dog in the game, as i live in mass. but in reality we all have a dog in the game in the fight for 2a.

and it seems like you're a bull dog

i like it

 

[mikem317]

Thanks boscru.

No update to share from anybody. I might start hitting the phones next.