Sig P226

[tpm]

Hello,

I bought the Sig P226 used and based on the serial number and markings it is was made in 1988. The gun looks like it has some minor wear on the outside (small surface scratches no dents or gouges or rust).

I am have a couple of problems when the gun cycles. First when I shoot the last round, sometimes the slide does not lock in the open position. If I manually grab the slide and pull it back it will lock every time (of course only when the mag is in). This isn't a huge problem but is more of an annoyance. Secondly, and the bigger of the two problems, is the gun has failure to feed issues. Most of the time when I have a FTF issue the bullet will be jammed with the tip of the bullet above the opening of the barrel. Other times the FTF will be that the old casing is ejected and the next bullet just doesn't feed into the chamber. I can just pull the slide back and release and it will properly load the next round.

The FTF sometimes happens once but sometimes 3-4 times in a row but is never the first bullet in the mag always 2-5 (gun club sets limit of 5 rounds in mag). I have the original Sig mag and an after market mag. I have tried using each mag and the problem persists. I have also tried different ammo (Tula ammo brass maxx and Federal Ammunition) but still no improvement.

I read up on this issue and the consensus seems to be limp wrist shooting or mag issues. I cleaned all of the mags and the gun and went back to the range. I held the gun tighter than I normally would and still have the same problem. So far I have fired about 550 rounds through the gun and have probably had around 40 FTF issues and about half of the time the slide doesn't lock back. I don't know if this is relevant but when the next round jams it usually hits me in the face with the spent brass. That probably pisses me off more than the gun not working properly.

The next thing I am going to try is to buy a new mag and buy a new main spring. The gun is 25 years old and as far as I know has the same spring so I hope maybe a new spring would cycle the slide correctly.

Before I go out and buy the replacement parts I would just like to ask if anybody here has experienced similar problems with the P226 and what the solution was. From what I understand the P226 should be a reliable gun. If you need any pictures of anything or more info let me know and I will throw some up here.

Thank you

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Not sure about the FTF. However on the slide not locking back on the last round; your thumb may be bumping on the slide catch. this was happening to me and others in a pistol 102 class up at Sig Academy. Instructor said it was normal, adjusted grip and slide locks back all the time now.

Have you had someone else shoot the gun? Perhaps that would rule our the "limp wrist" factor.

 

[tpm]

I have read that your thumb can get in the way but I do not think my thumb sits high enough on the grips. I took some pictures holding the gun with one hand but normally my left hand is cupping my right and my left hand doesn't touch the gun just my right hand. Well I guess my left palm does touch the bottom of the mag but not the slide release. I have not had anybody else try the gun yet.

Let me know if you think this grip will cause me problems.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

I have read that your thumb can get in the way but I do not think my thumb sits high enough on the grips. I took some pictures holding the gun with one hand but normally my left hand is cupping my right and my left hand doesn't touch the gun just my right hand. Well I guess my left palm does touch the bottom of the mag but not the slide release. I have not had anybody else try the gun yet.

Let me know if you think this grip will cause me problems.
<img src="http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=89054"/><img src="http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=89055"/>

Where does your other thumb go? Also, it may slip up after firing a few rounds. Best to have someone watch while u shoot. After holidays you are welcome to come up to Georgetown. I have a cpl 226's and newer mags. We could probably eliminate a few factors.

 

[tpm]

When I shoot my thumb is basically just below the mag release. The picture is how I would place my hand if I were shooting. What is a cpl 226?

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

I meant your left hand. Or are you shooting one handed?

Cpl=couple. I have a couple.

 

[SIGPRO 226]

Your magazine lips might be bent or deformed that would cause some problems.

 

[WhiteTiger]

The slide not locking back is most likely due to Harding an old spring and guide rod in the P226. The FTF may also be due to the age and wear of he magazines. You may want to show it to a gunsmith and they should be able to tell you pretty quick what the issues are.

 

[tpm]

I meant your left hand. Or are you shooting one handed?

Cpl=couple. I have a couple.

I shoot with two hands.

I took some pictures holding the gun with one hand but normally my left hand is cupping my right and my left hand doesn't touch the gun just my right hand. Well I guess my left palm does touch the bottom of the mag but not the slide release.

My left hand only contacts the gun on the end of the magazine and wraps around my right hand.

 

[mark056]

If I owned the pistol, I'd take it or ship it up to Epping for a tune up. Sig offers this. They go thru the gun, replace the springs and fire for function. Not sure of the price now, but worth a shot. I know Sig makes a big deal about spring replacement, maybe it is just shtick to drum up business, but replacing springs on a 25 yr old gun isn't a bad idea IMO.

 

[fencer]

I'd send that puppy in for a certified Sig Armorers service. When you get it back it will be like a new gun

 

[rupluggedin]

You should just send it to Me , No more 226 ,no more problems. I love the older sigs, send it to Epping and get it tuned up. Do not send the Mag though, you will never see it again .

 

[tpm]

I looked up the sig service plans. For $85 I can get it cleaned and fully inspected and have the springs replaced or for $145 I can get all the previous things and night sights installed.
http://www.sigsauer.com/Customshop/SpecialCTU.aspx

It is not easy to see but from the pictures that I already posted you can see that there are white dots on the front and rear sights. Would night sights improve visibility more than this? Do night sights increase the value of the gun?

 

[fencer]

You might try Four Seasons. http://www.fsguns.com/sigarms.html.

And I would be willing to bet that there is a qualified Sig dude near you.

That 226 is a fine fine pistol. I would never get rid of it

 

[590A1 Master]

Hi TPM,

My old man's second 226 had the same issue and it was up to me to fix it. It may be the same year actually as yours; it is a late 80's. Anyway, its been a year or two since, but the gist of the issue is that around that time they changed the magazine design. So with my dad's, it would lock manually, but not after last round, except with his one Ramline mag that is built a little differently.

Solution (I am a little rusty):
-watch some dis-assembly videos of the sig. You're going to have to take off the slide, pull out the takedown lever, and remove the slide catch spring.

http://www.gunsourcebyzcl.com/home/...sauer-p226-disassembly/sig-sauer-p226-diagram

-what you have to do is bend this spring so it is pushes up more when a mag is inserted. To be honest I can't remember if it was up or down, but it should be obvious when everything's apart. I used needle nose pliers

-test it out, adjust as you go

-I also recall ordering another slide stop spring (maybe even from lonewolf)

So that should solve your slide lock issue. For the FTF, I really don't know. I have never heard of that with sigs. It could be your grip, but I would start with the recoil spring. Maybe see what lonewolf has.

Sorry this is sloppy, let me know what I need to clarify or get pics of.

 

[Proud Citizen]

The slide not locking after your last round is definitely due to your left thumb touching the release lever, there simply isn't any other way this would happen, especially when you say it locks open with an empty mag. I too own a P226 and had this same problem until I adjusted my grip.

 

[tpm]

Next time I go shooting I'll adjust my grip and if anybody else is at the range I will get them to shoot it (everybody likes shooting somebody else's gun and ammo right? shouldn't have trouble finding any volunteers).

590A1 Master, I will find some videos but I don't really want to be bending or adjusting stuff just yet but I will keep that in mind. From my experience once you bend a spring you can never get it to go back the way it was. What you say visually seems like that should work. maybe over time it just took a different set or got bent from use?

Does anybody know of a video that shows how a semi auto mechanically locks the slide back when the mag is empty or rather why doesn't the slide lock back when there is a round in the mag? I imagine that there is a lever/button that the round presses against that make the slide by-pass the lock. I just like having an idea of how something mechanically works and solid model videos where the outside of the gun is hidden or lightly shaded really show some nice detail.

 

[jpm]

It is not easy to see but from the pictures that I already posted you can see that there are white dots on the front and rear sights. Would night sights improve visibility more than this? Do night sights increase the value of the gun?

Those are the old style sights you find on the german sigs, I have those on my 229 and love them! I wouldn't let anyone change them out for a 3 dot sight.

 

[Gammon]

Failure to lock the slide to the rear on the last shot and FTFs are very often a symptom of either under powered ammo or a recoil spring that is too strong. In this case the gun is short stroking which, i.e. the slide is not travelling far enough to the rear. A dirty gun, or one that is not sufficiently lubed could be the problem, but I think that a change of ammo or a weaker recoil spring would be the easiest cure. Wolff sells SIG replacement recoil springs for about $7.00.

I have never bought into the "limp wristed" theory and its solution. Your pistol should cycle no matter how you hold it. Changing your grip is not the best solution because you will still have problems if you inadvertently revert to your old "limp wristed" grip. The recoil spring in a pistol must be tuned to the ammo and the shooter for complete reliability. The good news is that this is a relatively simple procedure.

 

[Another_David]

I would replace most springs and clean it thoroughly.

Secondly, take a look at the slide stop. It could be warn where it contacts the slide and it probably needs replacing as well.

Parts are cheap enough. Most of the springs aren't so hard to do if you're somewhat mechanically inclined. The sear spring is the tough one but not part of the spring kit.

Maybe replace the guide rod too if it looks really worn or warped.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-parts-kits/

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

A failure of the slide to lock back on an empty magazine is incredibly common for SigSauer pistols and can almost always be traced to the shooter holding down the slide lock while shooting. If you're holding the gun correctly, you're likely to experience this. The slide lock is poorly positioned. As my shooting and technique has improved I've found that my slide almost never locks back on an empty magazine. I've tried to adjust my grip, but the better my grip gets the more problems I have with this.

I shoot with two hands.

My left hand only contacts the gun on the end of the magazine and wraps around my right hand.

That's its own problem. Your weak hand needs to be fully engaged in holding the gun and you want as much of your weak hand contacting the grip as possible. You cannot have that hand too high on the grip.

I have tens of thousands of rounds through three different P series Sigs (four if we're counting frames) and have never had a magazine related malfunction with Sig or Mec Gar magazines. Other than Mec Gar, after market mags are crap. Hard stop. I would replace the recoil spring, although despite it's age, it doesn't sound like your gun has that much wear.

 

[tpm]

I would have to double check the ammo boxes but I think both of the makes of ammo were 115 grain FMJ rounds. I did notice that Midway sold different strength recoil springs ( i think 17, 18 and 21 lbs) and read that the different ammo required different springs to be optimal. I will try to some 147 grain rounds that I have next.

I would like to thank everybody for giving me some suggestions. I will try to implement some of these things and see what works.

Is it worth sending the gun back to Sig to have it looked at and clean and have springs replaced for $85? Have other people done this with good results?

The spring that is in there is braided wire that is coiled to form a spring. I don't know if this is worht noting or not, maybe it shows how old it is. Do they still make them like this?

 

[tpm]

A failure of the slide to lock back on an empty magazine is incredibly common for SigSauer pistols and can almost always be traced to the shooter holding down the slide lock while shooting. If you're holding the gun correctly, you're likely to experience this. The slide lock is poorly positioned. As my shooting and technique has improved I've found that my slide almost never locks back on an empty magazine. I've tried to adjust my grip, but the better my grip gets the more problems I have with this.

Could I be hitting the release without knowing it? From what I understand I have to pull the release down in order to release the slide. When the slide is cycling do you have to pull it down or simply touching or bumping it will release it? So many people keep saying that is the problem and is common so I have to believe this is probably the problem.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Bumping it will do it, your thumb doesn't have to be directly on it.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

How old are the magazines? You have failure to feed and failure to lock back. Bad mags could cause both problems. Weak mag springs will not feed rounds fast enough causing your failure to feed. Weak mag springs could also cause the mag follower to not have sufficient strength to push up the slide lock after final round, causing failure to lock back. Or cause the mag follower to not engage the slide lock before it begins returning to battery.
So let's try new mags before anything else. If they are original mags then the springs are 26 years old at this point. I would say its time for new springs.

 

[tpm]

The sig mag is original and the after market mag is at least 5 years old. The guy I bought it when he acquired the gun but didn't remember when.

I am going to have a guy who knows what he is doing look at it before I buy any parts. At this point I think I have to buy a new mag or mag spring and a new recoil spring. and get a new grip when firing.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Well the spring on a factory mag is 26 years old and chowder at this point. The aftermarket could be too if it were stored loaded for a long portion of its life. Since you didn't specify I'm guessing the behavior occurs on both mags.
I would still start with new mag springs, because it looks like you need them anyway. So it's not waisting money. Recoil spring wouldn't cause these issues, but based on age it's due for replacement anyway. So I think it good that you do that too.

 

[tpm]

I tried both mags and they had the same result. I also took them apart to clean them. The factory mag was filthy but the other was clean.

 

[Gammon]

I would have to double check the ammo boxes but I think both of the makes of ammo were 115 grain FMJ rounds. I did notice that Midway sold different strength recoil springs ( i think 17, 18 and 21 lbs) and read that the different ammo required different springs to be optimal. I will try to some 147 grain rounds that I have next.

I would like to thank everybody for giving me some suggestions. I will try to implement some of these things and see what works.

Is it worth sending the gun back to Sig to have it looked at and clean and have springs replaced for $85? Have other people done this with good results?

The spring that is in there is braided wire that is coiled to form a spring. I don't know if this is worht noting or not, maybe it shows how old it is. Do they still make them like this?

The $85 service is worth it if you can't do it yourself. It is, however, a very simple operation and kits are available from Top Gun Supply. Braided springs are still in use. Recoil springs can last a very long time unless the gun is fired often. A recoil spring should last 3000 rounds in most pistols.

 

[rocket500]

I'd get it tuned up by Sig. They'll send it back purring like a kitten and with night sights (big upgrade).