SIG MCX Virtus vs. ? - Recomendations for .233 / 5.56

22lr

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I am looking to add a 5.56 / .223 to the collection and the Virtus has got my attention. I am really just looking for a fun range gun that takes AR mags. I can’t shake the nagging feeling that I should get one while I still can..

So what say you, go for the MCX or
- pre ‘94 AR
- pre Healey AR
- other?

I would like to stay sub $2k

I am not a fan of the bullpups, too funky for me. I have little to no experience shooting any of the options.
 

amm5061

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Both the MCX and Pre-ban are probably going to run you very close to, if not over 2k. Pre-bullshit enforcement letter is running way overpriced right now, but still in your price range.

If you can find some stripped lowers that's your best bet. Build up your own the way you want it, but that can get stupidly expensive as well. If you budget and select your parts right, you'll be fine.
 

22lr

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SCAR.

Spend 500 extra and ball out. Buy once cry once.

In your opinion, what does he SCAR have over over MCX? Seems like some folks that buy SCARS end up having / wanting to make upgrades which has always boggled me given the price tag.
 

Dennis in MA

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I'd love a SCAR just because of the look.

I'd love a Tavor just because of the look.

Shoot them??? I haven't been shooting regularly in a long time. And rifle is FAR rarer than pistol. But they'd be two cool guns to own. I've yet to warm up to the SIG AR/AK conglomeration thingies. What's the weight on these bad boys vs. AR vs. the SCAR?

Some day I gotta send my upper back to Bushy on my Carbon15 to get the FTF fixed. THAT is a light gun!
 

MarkT

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I have a Virtus MCX and like it. It screams quality and is a great shooter.

My only beef is that we have to neuter the stock to make it compliant. So you lose one of the key features which is a foldable, collapsable, stock. With it pinned in my preferred position, the cheek weld isn't particularly comfortable due to the thinness of the stock. I'm probably going to replace the stock with the one in the image below, but that's another $150.

I don't regret buying it, and probably wont sell it, but you can probably do better in that price range.



Screen Shot 2018-06-21 at 10.04.37 AM.png
 

92G

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my 2c, worth what you paid for it:

-X95 or SAR is a winner. phenomenal. even folks who don't like bullpups end up liking the X95. the design is simply brilliant. it's basically an AK long stroke piston design in a bullpup. I wish IWI made the X95 in 7.62x39. once the tavor 7 comes out i will be all over it.
-SCAR is great rifle but beyond overpriced especially when considering reciprocating charging handle and lack of QD mounts. some of the outrageous SCAR prices is due to supply, as i'm sure if tavors or bren 805's were equally scare you'd see prices well over $2k for them
-bren 805 looks very nice. personally i would go this route over a scar due to price, trigger and parts availability/cost
-MCX is a sweet rifle too, i have no experience with it. without the folding stock capability, I don't think it gives much if anything over an AR
-robinson arms XCR is also a cool looking rifle. popular in canada. gets like no love around here but folks who own them seem happy. they look like a clever design, borrows a lot from the AK
 
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In your opinion, what does he SCAR have over over MCX? Seems like some folks that buy SCARS end up having / wanting to make upgrades which has always boggled me given the price tag.

I have a 16 and a 17. The only upgrades I did to the 16 other than an optic was chopped the barrel / SBR, and changed the rail. I dont really understand peoples problems with the charging handles. Im ambidextrous, have run it both lefty and right and have never had it bite me or cause a malfunction.
If you could run out tomorrow and buy a Noveske I would tell you thats that best 2k that you can spend and to buy an AR. You cant.

Any of your choices at the 2k mark that are still available in the state are fine. And youre pretty much picking apples from apples as far as how they shoot. My SCAR shoots as nice as my noveske shoots as nice as my KAC rifles.
Pick what you like the look of and have at it.
 

92G

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for me if the charging handle reciprocates then it has to be moved to the R side like an AK. charging handle on the can lead to stoppages either due to shooting from supported position or from the left hand. yes i know people say "keep your hand away from the CH" which i understand but in situation of stress who is to say one wouldn't grab it like an idiot. last time i shot a SCAR i put my left thumb right up behind the CH. thankfully i noticed before pulling the trigger. i'm not saying this is for everyone, just my mileage. it's an amazing rifle. i dig them. let's be honest all rifles are overpriced. it's just the SCAR is in its own class of retarded cost.

old video but he brings up good points on the SCAR:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTAlmHqvhWg&t=635s
 

Dennis in MA

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I didn't know that about the recip'g handle. Yikes! Takes that off the list for sure. The ambi safety seems actually like a good idea based on how he was using it.

I didn't even know the ACR was still being built. One of them in Basic would be a fine addition to the inMA firearms family. I so desired one when it was the Magpul Whateveritwas.
 

E.Stoner

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If you want a fun cool-guy-gun and don't mind burning the cash and dont want an AR-15. Go Scar 16.
It has the added bonus of being a battle tested top quality rifle that you could trust your life on. The reciprocating handle is frankly a non-issue (think AK's). It's very light, soft shooting, and accurate. Yes, it is overpriced, but it is also a really good rifle. Many upgrades if you want them.

-Bren 805's awesome, basically heaver SCAR's with excellent stock triggers, but you will always be hankering for a BREN 2

-Tavors are fun, until you get a malfunction/jam and start questioning your sanity and your life choices. On the other hand it's probably the best bullpup out there and looks like it is "Space Force" ready. Afterall "the only good bug, is a dead bug" Do you want to know more? With Geiselle upgrades, they are pretty fun.

-ACR's are ok, but the quality control is suspect, but the platform seems to be finally expanding (just in time for Bushmaster)Cerberus group to go bankrupt so factory support might be questionable). Also they inexplicably weigh a million pounds (the barrel/bolt carrier).
Its a super soft shooter though.

-Sig MCX Virtus. Cool gun but some big question marks: did you get a good one (thanks SIG QC)? Will they generationally advance next year and not have support or backwards compatibility?
It's heavy! between the barrel profile and the giant thick hand guard, this thing is maybe more nose heavy than the ACR. This is solved with a nice light MI handgaurd, other recommended upgrades include a trigger, and charging handle. Also it doesn't include iron sights in the box (which is fine), but you'll need those to shoot it out of the box OR just an optic because it's 2018 and do you really need irons?
If you have to massify, you lose alot of the benefit of the MCX over an AR, however the barrel/caliber changing is pretty sweet.

-Galil ACE. Looks ok, but I am not sure about it's track record. I have a hard time trusting a rifle that has never been adopted buy any military. I haven't owned or shot one so I dont have a strong opinion. I have heard good things tho.


If you want the best possible rifle with the most amount of customization get a real deal preban Colt and buy a new upper or three and call it a day. In the end it will will probably cost you the same or more as a new gun. It's pretty hard to beat an AR-15.
For the last 30 years the US military has been trying to replace the AR/m16/m4, there is a reason why it's still around.
Hint: because it is still the best.
 
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Varmint

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-Galil ACE. Looks ok, but I am not sure about it's track record. I have a hard time trusting a rifle that has never been adopted buy any military. I haven't owned or shot one so I dont have a strong opinion. I have heard good things tho.

Galil ACE is not AG-compliant unfortunately. I had one in my hands the day before 7/20, thought I had time to decide. :(

From the Galil ACE wiki
It is the main standard-issue assault rifle of the Chilean Army, of the People's Army of Vietnam and of the Colombian Army, Navy, Air Force and Colombian Police.
 

E.Stoner

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22lr

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If you want a fun cool-guy-gun and don't mind burning the cash and dont want an AR-15. Go Scar 16.
It has the added bonus of being a battle tested top quality rifle that you could trust your life on. The reciprocating handle is frankly a non-issue (think AK's). It's very light, soft shooting, and accurate. Yes, it is overpriced, but it is also a really good rifle. Many upgrades if you want them.

-Bren 805's awesome, basically heaver SCAR's with excellent stock triggers, but you will always be hankering for a BREN 2

-Tavors are fun, until you get a malfunction/jam and start questioning your sanity and your life choices. On the other hand it's probably the best bullpup out there and looks like it is "Space Force" ready. Afterall "the only good bug, is a dead bug" Do you want to know more? With Geiselle upgrades, they are pretty fun.

-ACR's are ok, but the quality control is suspect, but the platform seems to be finally expanding (just in time for Bushmaster)Cerberus group to go bankrupt so factory support might be questionable). Also they inexplicably weigh a million pounds (the barrel/bolt carrier).
Its a super soft shooter though.

-Sig MCX Virtus. Cool gun but some big question marks: did you get a good one (thanks SIG QC)? Will they generationally advance next year and not have support or backwards compatibility?
It's heavy! between the barrel profile and the giant thick hand guard, this thing is maybe more nose heavy than the ACR. This is solved with a nice light MI handgaurd, other recommended upgrades include a trigger, and charging handle. Also it doesn't include iron sights in the box (which is fine), but you'll need those to shoot it out of the box OR just an optic because it's 2018 and do you really need irons?
If you have to massify, you lose alot of the benefit of the MCX over an AR, however the barrel/caliber changing is pretty sweet.

-Galil ACE. Looks ok, but I am not sure about it's track record. I have a hard time trusting a rifle that has never been adopted buy any military. I haven't owned or shot one so I dont have a strong opinion. I have heard good things tho.


If you want the best possible rifle with the most amount of customization get a real deal preban Colt and buy a new upper or three and call it a day. In the end it will will probably cost you the same or more as a new gun. It's pretty hard to beat an AR-15.
For the last 30 years the US military has been trying to replace the AR/m16/m4, there is a reason why it's still around.
Hint: because it is still the best.

Some really good points, thank you.
This thread has made me realize that a Massified Virtus really is not a whole lot better than a standard AR. There are some pros, but definitely some cons too.
 
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This is an old article and one of the best comparisons ive ever seen. I own a Scar 16s and I will never get rid of it. Built from the ground up as a combat rifle and is plenty battle proven. If Kalashnikov and Stoner had a baby the Scar would be it.

SCAR vs AR; A detailed look...
 
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A buddy of mine has been looking to buy new from a shop with the same requirements as op...5.56 that takes AR mags but doesn’t want a bull pup or mini 14 and the scar is too expensive...he has been looking at the following...

CZ - 805 Bren S1
Bushmaster - acr
Robinson Arms - xcr
Sig Saur - mcx virtus

Any of these being sold in MA?

arak21
ARAK-21 XRS Complete Rifle - CUSTOM

hk433
Heckler & Koch :: Product Overview | HK433

arx100
ARX 100
 

amm5061

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Given that list, I would probably buy a Bren, personally. The ACR has never had a great reputation, and the XCR I don't know enough about, but with the same price point I know the CZ has a decent reputation. The MCX, maybe, but it doesn't seem different enough from an AR to attract me to it. Plus once you massify it you lose the folding stock.

The ARAK upper intrigues me, but you need an AR lower to put it on, so good luck finding a dealer to transfer the whole rifle. Even though it's a slightly modified lower, you still run afoul of Healey's bullshit there. There was actually an ARAK upper for sale in the classifieds not long ago.

I don't think I've ever seen an ARX for sale, but if you secure that folding stock I don't see why it wouldn't be Mass legal. I don't know that a semi-auto version of the 433 is available for civilian purchase yet.
 
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Given that list, I would probably buy a Bren, personally. The ACR has never had a great reputation, and the XCR I don't know enough about, but with the same price point I know the CZ has a decent reputation. The MCX, maybe, but it doesn't seem different enough from an AR to attract me to it. Plus once you massify it you lose the folding stock.

The ARAK upper intrigues me, but you need an AR lower to put it on, so good luck finding a dealer to transfer the whole rifle. Even though it's a slightly modified lower, you still run afoul of Healey's bullshit there. There was actually an ARAK upper for sale in the classifieds not long ago.

I don't think I've ever seen an ARX for sale, but if you secure that folding stock I don't see why it wouldn't be Mass legal. I don't know that a semi-auto version of the 433 is available for civilian purchase yet.

Great info...thanks...this would be his second rifle...only has a 10/22 at the moment...so it seems like the Bren or the mcx would be his best bet
 

usp45ct

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For me, it would be anything but an AR. I live ARs, I had 5 before a recent boating accident. My problem is one of my personality. I am an a**h*** and simply will not pay a premium because the AG of my state is a twat. I

You buy a “preban” AR and great, you overpaid significantly for a Preban AR. You move to a free state, your preban now becomes an old AR and you lose serious money quickly....and you hate Massachusetts more.
 
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amm5061

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Great info...thanks...this would be his second rifle...only has a 10/22 at the moment...so it seems like the Bren or the mcx would be his best bet

Just a side thought, but if your friend wants an AR, he could buy a fixed mag version. Several of our resident FFL07's build and sell such rifles for half of what you'd pay for the MCX. Fixed mag lowers can also be found if he wants to build his own.
 

92G

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the hate on the ACR is unwarranted. I've never met someone who actually owned one and didn't like it. I've found this rifle to be reliable and robust in the design. it is truly clever. it's obvious bushmaster didn't design it. the hatred on the rifle is driven by either group-think or those who bought one back in like 2013 for stupid high price and expected Bushmaster to provide product support. the prices have come down. bushmaster was recently offering a $125 rebate on them. not sure if that's still going. my expectations of Bushmaster (and all of FG) is very low and I would't dump it on a great rifle design.

for the price, the ACR (or a Bren 805) offer a far better value than the SCAR.

Yes, buy this so they release the Bren 2 the next day.

while i haven't played with a Bren 2 (aka 806), I don't see it taking away from the 805. perhaps it will bump down the prices on the 805 but the 805 is a tremendous rifle. i see the 806 as something like the IWI tavor X95 compared to the SAR. a few tweaks here and there but no more reliable or accurate than the original.

one huge perk to the 805 is that CZ has made all the parts available and they're not too overpriced. KNS precision seems to be expanding their accessories too. i think if CZ continues to import the 805 i see it becoming more and more popular.
 

Keop

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I own one Pre-94 Bushmaster Lower with Geissele Trigger and have multiple uppers that I rotate depending on my mood. Plus is having a collapsible stock, threaded barrels, evil flash hiders and the like. An option like this provides you the most future flexibility.
 

22lr

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I own one Pre-94 Bushmaster Lower with Geissele Trigger and have multiple uppers that I rotate depending on my mood. Plus is having a collapsible stock, threaded barrels, evil flash hiders and the like. An option like this provides you the most future flexibility.

This is the route that I ended up going. Colt Govt. Carbine. Taking it to the range tomorrow, can’t wait!
 

Dennis in MA

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I'm considering getting a carbon-fiber "rail'd" 16" upper for my pre-ban AR - just to make things lighter. Maybe change out the stock, but I think it's already got a VLTOR on it now, so that isn't getting much lighter.

I have to shoot my AR pistol first. Maybe tomorrow. Who knows.
 
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