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Should You Be Allowed To Carry A Gun To Church?
- Thread starter Zappa
- Start date
It's for the childrens
F
Finalygotabeltfed
There's no "being allowed" about it. If I feel like carrying to church, I'll do it no matter what law is passed or sign is posted. My right to self preservation trumps both.
the only things that needed to be cited are the incidents where lunatics have shot/stabbed/otherwise attacked innocent people during church services. they knew that they'd have no problem hurting innocent people there so their cowardly asses chose that place to strike.
these folks should definitely be allowed to carry in church, it [i[is[/i] their right after all. it shouldn't even really need to be argued!
these folks should definitely be allowed to carry in church, it [i[is[/i] their right after all. it shouldn't even really need to be argued!
MisterHappy
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OK...Jesus rose from the dead...isn't that the definition of a zombie? Isn't "zombies" a reason to carry? ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Seriously, the "no guns" theory is that it's a house of peace and worship. Unfortunatley, it's not the "house" that matters, but the "home invaders".
Full disclosure: I neither habitually carry, nor go to church.
One likes to believe in the better nature of people....and think that that's what you're going to be deealing with in church, but reality can, has and will intrude.
Seriously, the "no guns" theory is that it's a house of peace and worship. Unfortunatley, it's not the "house" that matters, but the "home invaders".
Full disclosure: I neither habitually carry, nor go to church.
One likes to believe in the better nature of people....and think that that's what you're going to be deealing with in church, but reality can, has and will intrude.
Exerpt from : On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs by Dave Grossman
"If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"
"If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"
Whether I carry in church, or not, is between me and God.
namedpipes
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Really?
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I think this pretty much sums up all that is necessary to say. Why would anyone need to make a stand about having rights to carry anywhere? If you want to carry, then carry, nobody needs to be asked, or told, simple as that! This kind of stuff really pisses me off, just like the need for the gays to openly have parades celebrating their "gay pride"! I don't have anything against them living however they choose, but why should they need to shout it from the rooftops and expose the rest of us (including our children) to their choices in life? I say do what the hell you want, but keep it to yourself, and then there is no issue - period!
Best answer yet!
Also, since there is so much mis-info spewed out there . . .
This case is irrelevant in MA . . . it is perfectly legal to carry in a church/synagogue in MA. I think this is also true in NH and VT, but not 100% on their law in this regard.
Many states who created CCW laws since the 1970s put such restrictions in their laws, but many states whose CCW laws are much older never added a bunch of restrictions (thankfully).
namedpipes
NES Member
Right, but in a half dozen or so states, there ARE such laws.
If the pastor / priest of some church wants to set his own rule that says "Thou Shalt Not Pack Heat" they are free to do so. What law is involved with that?
namedpipes
NES Member
Hmmm.
The First Amendment reads . . . Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The Second Amendment reads . . . A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
In the 1st case, the check is on the government. "Congress shall make no law . . . " In other words, the .gov has no right to mess with your religion, what you have to say, who you hang with or to stop you from bitching at the government. It doesn't really talk about other people. You or I could say whatever we want about religion (well, not the Muslim religion - that one is off limits)
In the 2nd case, all it says is "shall not be infringed". It never mentions infringed "by whom".
Taken as absolutes you could conclude that NOBODY ANYWHERE has the right to force you not to carry. Not .gov and not other ordinary citizens. Even requiring you to leave would be infringing your rights.
It seems to me the 2A protection is stronger than 1A.
As a side note, when you are arrested, convicted and incarcerated you don't lose your right to speak or practice your faith. So why, when you get out on parole, can the .gov prevent you from associating with known criminals (clearly a violation of your 1st A rights).
The First Amendment reads . . . Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The Second Amendment reads . . . A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
In the 1st case, the check is on the government. "Congress shall make no law . . . " In other words, the .gov has no right to mess with your religion, what you have to say, who you hang with or to stop you from bitching at the government. It doesn't really talk about other people. You or I could say whatever we want about religion (well, not the Muslim religion - that one is off limits)
In the 2nd case, all it says is "shall not be infringed". It never mentions infringed "by whom".
Taken as absolutes you could conclude that NOBODY ANYWHERE has the right to force you not to carry. Not .gov and not other ordinary citizens. Even requiring you to leave would be infringing your rights.
It seems to me the 2A protection is stronger than 1A.
As a side note, when you are arrested, convicted and incarcerated you don't lose your right to speak or practice your faith. So why, when you get out on parole, can the .gov prevent you from associating with known criminals (clearly a violation of your 1st A rights).
I don't go to church, problem solved. But in all seriousness the government should have no say in what any churches rules are. If a particular church doesn't want its members to carry in church they can ask them themselves not to.
Sure...Until your family is saved by an armed citizen stopping the bad guy!
Nice snipit for the libtards. Groups law abiding citizens with crazy wackos. Failed to differentiate that lawful gun owners keep the guns concealed and ready to defend while the wacko is the one that brings the gun to cause harm. That is the issue...the wackjobs.
Answer the OP... Absolutely YES!
the irony of it.
A couple of hundred years ago around here, you were required to bring your rifle when you went to church on Sunday.
Ah, the good 'ol days!
Should You Be Allowed To Carry A Gun To Church?
Wouldn't a more crucial question be "What authority does the state have to regulate any otherwise lawful activities I or anyone else choose to engage in while in church"? (I only throw in the "otherwise lawful" qualifier to those who might object to human sacrifice.)
Ken
Wouldn't a more crucial question be "What authority does the state have to regulate any otherwise lawful activities I or anyone else choose to engage in while in church"? (I only throw in the "otherwise lawful" qualifier to those who might object to human sacrifice.)
Ken
OfficerObie59
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While I like your sentiment and wish it were indeed the case, that broad of a reading flies in the face of 220 years of constitutional law jurisprudence and interpretation. Further, as an originalist I find it important to remember the BOR prior to the civil war and 14th Amd. was intended to only apply to the Federal Government.
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namedpipes
NES Member
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Lip
Army Veteran
DItto.
