Should ROTC cadets carry on campus? POLL

So you have no idea what course of instruction ROTC cadets receive? [laugh]

No, no idea, as I said. I was never in ROTC, I'm sorry. Why don't you enlighten me if you find it so humorous?

As OnTheRoad just said, if they have a valid license, what difference does it make? They can legally carry, then I think they should be allowed to carry on campus. At the very least, they have the training that they took to get their licenses.
 
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I object to the moronic assumption that ROTC cadets are somehow trained or are in any way more prepared to deal with that situation than another student.

They have no real training to prepare them for civilian CCW, so then why do they have special rights? It would be much better to have those that have the training be allowed. If ROTC cadets or The Society of Future Engineers or Phi Beta Cappa or the Wiccans or gays want to get licensed then fine. Go for it.

The Senator from Alabama is taking this one right from the Massachusetts patronage/nepotism playbook. Or is it the Mass one is based on the Alabama playbook. [thinking]

B
 
I object to the moronic assumption that ROTC cadets are somehow trained or are in any way more prepared to deal with that situation than another student.

I don't think they should have special rights. I think everyone should have a right to carry, no matter where they are. I posted that poster because I just found it on a photographers site that someone had just posted in another thread, I didn't make it, and I object to your moronic assumption that I assumed they were any different from anyone else.
 
COLLEGE STUDENT. ENGINEER.
ChriswithtoyAssaultRifle.jpg

TRAINED TO PWN IN COUNTERSTRIKE AND WILLING TO CODE FOR 96 HOURS STRAIGHT.
ARMED WITH RED BULL AND BOMB MAKING ASCII FILES "JUST IN CASE."
 
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The Senator from Alabama is taking this one right from the Massachusetts patronage/nepotism playbook. Or is it the Mass one is based on the Alabama playbook. [thinking]

And to add a dollop of crap frosting, how much you want to bet
someone within DOD issues an edict saying that (insert superior
rank person here) can "ban" the practice at their own
discretion, regardless of its legality, thus making the entire
law that got passed essentially moot?

The notional that the DOD is going to trust one of their own people
with a firearm outside of limited circumstances is simply laughable.
A friend of mine flies very expensive airplanes for the AF, yet he
still has to "check in" his personal weapon(s) to the sec forces
armory just like anyone else. If he can't be "trusted" then what
makes anyone think that the DOD is going to allow it to extend to
cadet peons? [laugh]

If this guy was really interested in "doing something" maybe
he'd work on lifting college CCW bans overall... for students,
teachers, etc, that probably already have a license but cannot
carry at "school" because of dumb state laws or idiotic things like
binding signage. [puke]

-Mike
 
Yes, it's all under the guise of Force Protection. Why doesn't the good Senator take that one on. My guess is that all the heat down there and too many mint juleps have pickled his brain.

B
 
+100. Our 'All or nothing' attitude is why we usually end up with nothing.

goodguys_ROTC.jpg
This has GOT to be one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen.

BTW, I got more firearms training in two days worth of Ohio CCW training than I did in four years at the US Naval Academy.
 
I'm a Navy officer/HPSP student. I think there are a little over a dozen in my class. I don't think any of them, other than myself, have any firearms experience.
 
Maybe I'm just not getting it...B, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Are you saying then that we should just foresake this group because they don't have "training", and thus lose the opportunity to get our foot in the door on having armed citizens on our campuses? I agree that cadets are no better or worse than other students, but if the way to get ALL students to be allwoed to carry is by starting with this group, I say go for it! If a cadet can't be allowed to carry without special training or experience, why should the auto mechanic, grocer, sales clerk or any other citizen be allowed to carry without the exact same training? Why the double-standard?
 
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Why the double-standard?

That's what I'm moaning about in the first place. No double standards and no BS about who is better prepared. Including ROTC as a requirement is about as stupid as saying they have to be Emo or Goth (they will be safer because they care about peoples feelings).

B
 
And to add a dollop of crap frosting, how much you want to bet someone within DOD issues an edict saying that (insert superior rank person here) can "ban" the practice at their own discretion, regardless of its legality, thus making the entire
law that got passed essentially moot?

Yes exactly, and then the first and second year cadets could carry, but the third and fourth years, and the Commissioned and Non Commissioned officers training them could not.

B
 
No double standards and no BS about who is better prepared. Including ROTC as a requirement is about as stupid as saying they have to be Emo or Goth (they will be safer because they care about peoples feelings).
See, that's where you're losing me. Ideally (and constitutionally), I agree 100% that every able-bodied college student who chooses to should be allowed to carry regardless of their affiliations. Realistically you know as well as I that this will not happen in today's society with one stroke of the pen. That being the case, what is there to lose by gradually allowing students to carry until the end result is the same? Get the cadets carrying, then point out that their level of preparation and training is no different than any other students. This has the potential of being a very persuasive argument that could open the door for the rest of our students to be able to exercise this right.

Conversely, what is there to gain by denying a group the ability to carry simply because others are not yet able to share in this benefit? We face a very powerful, albeit commonly misguided opponent. Wouldn't it be in our best interest not to thumb our noses at an opportunity to add to those allowed to legally carry and use that momentum to keep moving forward?
 
I say yes.

I mean, we always say "We're not the criminals," so why would ROTC students be? Why do we have this sudden fear that the ROTC troops will misrepresent us as gun owners?

To me, it sounds like a lot of you just don't want guns in colleges, but are afraid to voice that opinion. ROTC students are no better or worse than any others, as people have said in this topic. If they can't CCW, why should ANY college students be allowed?
 
I say yes.

I mean, we always say "We're not the criminals," so why would ROTC students be? Why do we have this sudden fear that the ROTC troops will misrepresent us as gun owners?

To me, it sounds like a lot of you just don't want guns in colleges, but are afraid to voice that opinion. ROTC students are no better or worse than any others, as people have said in this topic. If they can't CCW, why should ANY college students be allowed?

You missed the point by a mile.

Making a exception that ROTC students should be allowed to carry because they are in the military PLAYS right into the hands of the antis who fimrly believe guns belong only in the hands of the police and armed forces. And face it, cadets being in the military is the only reason this is being floated around. What else could it be? There is absolutely NOTHING else different between cadets and the general population.

It is also an insult to the many adult graduate students in universities all around the nation, many with a hell of a lot more maturity than most undergrads (ROTC cadets included).

Let's pretend that ROTC cadets were allowed to CCW on campus and that Kansas had legal CCW in 2000. In that year I was 34 when I enrolled in a business administration postgraduate program at Wichita State University. I was 36 when I graduated. Assuming Kansas had legal CCW back then, I would have been well within my legal rights to carry a handgun all around Wichita except on Saturdays when I went to class all day long at WSU. But you mean to tell me that some 21 yo ROTC cadet would have been?

I don't f-ing think so.

I bet most you advocating an exception for ROTC students don't have the faintest idea of what kind of training ROTC cadets receive. I also find it telling that those with military experience on this thread unanimously see no validity to the position that cadets are somehow better able to execute the responsibility of handling a firearm in defensive combat better than anyone else. Maybe because we actually have either had direct contact with cadets and/or were one at one time in the past?

It is also extremely dangerous to give the government more ways to segement the population into who can and who cannot get a concealed handgun license.

I am rarely in the all-or-nothing camp. Not this time.
 
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We've lost our rights one piece at a time. The antis are masters at this. We won't get them back at once. We need to take them back one piece at a time just like how we've lost them.

Letting ROTC members carry on campus is a small step towards gun rights for everyone.

Taking these hard lines in the sand and trying to take back all our rights in one day is a losing battle.
 
Letting ROTC members carry on campus is a small step towards gun rights for everyone.
Wrong. Letting them be the exception is a step back. It will not gain the general population anything because they are military. It sets them apart further from the general population.

Prior to 2004, Ohio had no CCW. Then we got it but with many stupid restrictions. In 2007, we removed some of the in-car CCW restrictions and we gained state-level pre-emption of firearm regulation. In one fell swoop we erased AWB and gun registration schemes in all the major Ohio cities as well as sundry other BS little ordinances in smaller cities and towns.

Now the push has started to start reducing the number of places where CCW is restricted as a felony and to further remove restrictions on how to carry in a motor vehicle.

You're right, incrementalism works for us just as it does for the antis. But is has to be incrementalism that helps EVERYONE.

So far I and a few others have put forth reasons why letting ROTC cadets carry on campus but not anyone else who has a valid CCW is not going to help matters and how, in fact, it may set us further back.

The proponents have not done same. All I hear from your side is that incrementalism is good. Sure, in a general sense it is. But how is it good in THIS instance? How much good did we get from the incrementalism of letting off-duty and retired cops carry concealed all over the country?
 
The proponents have not done same. All I hear from your side is that incrementalism is good. Sure, in a general sense it is. But how is it good in THIS instance? How much good did we get from the incrementalism of letting off-duty and retired cops carry concealed all over the country?
The day that one of them is in a mall when some psycho lets loose will be a start. It will clearly demonstrate that lifting restrictions results in a safer populace. More fuel for the fire that ALL CCW holders should be carrying everywhere. Incrementalism is better than an unrealistic expectation that all restrictions will be lifted at once, and also better than being obstinate to the point that no restrictions are lifted at all.
 
There is absolutely NOTHING else different between cadets and the general population.

This is my point. If they'll only allow us to give firearms to ROTC, why not? Like someone said before, our "All or nothing" attitude has only made **** worse for us. If this is what they'll give us, the right for ROTC students to carry on campus, then why not if they're no different than the rest of us?
 
There is absolutely NOTHING else different between cadets and the general population.

This is my point. If they'll only allow us to give firearms to ROTC, why not? Like someone said before, our "All or nothing" attitude has only made **** worse for us. If this is what they'll give us, the right for ROTC students to carry on campus, then why not if they're no different than the rest of us?

Because in the minds of the ANTIS they are part of the military. Part of one of the two annointed groups that can be trusted with firearms.

I ask again: WTF have we gotten as "trickle down" from letting cops enjoy CCW privileges nationwide without regard to state laws?

NOTHING. Not a thing.
 
If Barney Frank sponsored it, would you support legislation that exempted gays from the Federal Income tax, in the hope that someday it would trickle down to you?

This bill makes supporters of the second amendment look like morons and cretins.

B
 
Does anyone here understand how (in)mature an 18 or 19 year old college student really is?

Because that is ALL that ROTC cadets are. Oh, they take a mil science class once a week. Whoopee.....
 
Does anyone here understand how (in)mature an 18 or 19 year old college student really is?

Because that is ALL that ROTC cadets are. Oh, they take a mil science class once a week. Whoopee.....
Hey this inmature 21 year old is an ROTC Cadet as well, so just watch the offensive remarks. Not all ROTC students are 18/19 and some of us are either currently enlisted reservists or are prior service. Make your point without generalizing your perception of what you think a group might be.
 
Hey this inmature 21 year old is an ROTC Cadet as well, so just watch the offensive remarks. Not all ROTC students are 18/19 and some of us are either currently enlisted reservists or are prior service. Make your point without generalizing your perception of what you think a group might be.
Bully for you.

You barely qualify to get a license to carry a concealed handgun.
 
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