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Should ROTC cadets carry on campus? POLL
- Thread starter Pilgrim
- Start date
J
Jose
No, there should be no special dispensation for ANYONE. EVERYONE who has a concealed handgun license valid in the state where they attend school should be able to carry.
so then they should be able to...along with others.
J
Jose
ROTC cadets range in age from 17 to their mid 20s. So to ask if ROTC cadets (without further discrimination) should be allowed to carry on campus is to ask for a special dispensation.
DickWanner
Banned
Are we talking M16s or are we talking CCW?
What makes ROTC cadets any better than any other students? Most have almost no firearms experience, and the ones that do had to be rodded off the range when they qualified at Summer Camp. Not exactly confidence inspiring. :-/ When they actually get into the military they will not be allowed to CCW at work or in some cases even off base and off duty.
B
B
J
Jose
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2005
- Messages
- 9,007
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- 5,487
My roomates at MIT were all in ROTC. There was this one group , the Pershing Rifles. They were extremely gung-ho, they seemed to go for extra training of all kinds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pershing_Rifles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pershing_Rifles
P-14
NES Member
I'm for any and all students to carry, so I voted YES. If someone thinks that ROTCs are special and it gets more lawful citizens carrying on campus, let it happen.
The "YES" votes need help. 428 voters and 52.33% are yes and 46.67 are no.
The "YES" votes need help. 428 voters and 52.33% are yes and 46.67 are no.
Some of you guys should just sell all your guns now and join the Brady Campaign.
Who the hell are you to say ANY American citizen shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm?
Permit, no permit, training, no training, college campus, wherever. Not to sound cliche but what part of "shall not be infringed," don't you understand?
I swear, some gun owners are more anti-gun than the antis.
Who the hell are you to say ANY American citizen shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm?
Permit, no permit, training, no training, college campus, wherever. Not to sound cliche but what part of "shall not be infringed," don't you understand?
I swear, some gun owners are more anti-gun than the antis.
The above quote clearly states the issue.
How amazaing that many of you hold Second Lieutenants in contempt for knowing nothing but would allow cadets (who become Second Lieutenants) to carry on campus.
Hmmm...lets have the military armed and be the only ones armed along with the campus police...then you would have only the military and police with guns, just like in a mlitary dictatorship/police state.
Isn't that what we as gun owners fear the most ?
Mark L.
J
Jose
Of course you are right.
That is not the question at hand here, though.
The question is, should another group be given a "special dispensation" to carry guns where the rest of the population is not legally allowed?
f*** NO.
I disagreed and still disagree with giving cops nationwide CCW immunity while off duty. If I can't have it, so shouldn't they. They are no better than anyone else.
An "All or Nothing" attitude will get us nowhere. You know the kind of people we are up against in the battle to exercise our rights. Let the ROTC carry. It at least gets armed students on campus. Sure it would be great for all to be able to carry but the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. If you don't take the step, maybe you don't want to make the journey.
I don't see the point of allowing ROTC to carry on campus considering
that once they go active they will probably be denied the right to
carry on base or on post anyways... so what difference does it
make? It's okay to allow them to protect themselves, but as soon
as they step foot into "work" we stop trusting them?
Regardless, I am sick of state laws which ban people (read, anyone
who otherwise could legally carry) from carrying concealed
at colleges/universities. That concept seriously blows donkey
chunks. They should just do away with the BS and allow anyone
otherwise permitted by state law. (eg, those with CCW/CHL
permits, etc. )
-Mike
that once they go active they will probably be denied the right to
carry on base or on post anyways... so what difference does it
make? It's okay to allow them to protect themselves, but as soon
as they step foot into "work" we stop trusting them?
Regardless, I am sick of state laws which ban people (read, anyone
who otherwise could legally carry) from carrying concealed
at colleges/universities. That concept seriously blows donkey
chunks. They should just do away with the BS and allow anyone
otherwise permitted by state law. (eg, those with CCW/CHL
permits, etc. )
-Mike
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 37
- Likes
- 1
ATTENTION, CADETS,
In my expert opinion, NO! Sorry. but NO!
My last tour of duty was as an Assistant Professor of Military
Science at the University of Wisconsin.
ROTC Cadets are still college kids and college kids go to school to get laid, get drunk, and get a degree in that order. In all fairness to them, I am compelled state that some, the rare few, are there to get an education, but these are the exception.
Unquestionably, ROTC cadets display a degree of maturity and responsibility a cut above that of the average college student, but
from Thursday afternoon to Sunday night they're still mostly a
bunch alcohol besotted bundles of raging hormones, so telling them it's OK to strut around campus, or anywhere else for that matter, with a loaded pistol is not a good idea. In fact it's a really stupid idea.
Add to that the number of (mostly harmless) freaks and wierdos that
gravitate toward college campuses (campi?) and the substances they introudce into their systems, adding guns to the environment is begging for unnecessary shootings due to overreaction and accidental access to firearms.
HOWEVER,
If the threat level is high (like you've got a Ted Bundy running around campus) then a person's gott'a do what a person's gott'a
do. Keep your piece out of sight and your mouth shut. And remember,
if you f*** up and get caught packing where you ain't supposed to pack, your ass is going to jail and no gold bars for you. But, you can probably finish earning your degree in prison.
In the one in a million chance you do have to use your piece in a righteous shoot, you still got a shitload of legal problems coming your way. Take comfort in the fact that you'll be out of jail before you'll be out of the cemetary.
MAJOR D
P.S. I'm all for armed, adult civilians carrying cocealed guns just about anywhere, provided they are sane, sober, familiar with the state and local laws regarding the use of deadly force, and have demonstrated competency with their weapon of choice. This probaly requires some sort of licensing system. So, call me an a**h***.
In my expert opinion, NO! Sorry. but NO!
My last tour of duty was as an Assistant Professor of Military
Science at the University of Wisconsin.
ROTC Cadets are still college kids and college kids go to school to get laid, get drunk, and get a degree in that order. In all fairness to them, I am compelled state that some, the rare few, are there to get an education, but these are the exception.
Unquestionably, ROTC cadets display a degree of maturity and responsibility a cut above that of the average college student, but
from Thursday afternoon to Sunday night they're still mostly a
bunch alcohol besotted bundles of raging hormones, so telling them it's OK to strut around campus, or anywhere else for that matter, with a loaded pistol is not a good idea. In fact it's a really stupid idea.
Add to that the number of (mostly harmless) freaks and wierdos that
gravitate toward college campuses (campi?) and the substances they introudce into their systems, adding guns to the environment is begging for unnecessary shootings due to overreaction and accidental access to firearms.
HOWEVER,
If the threat level is high (like you've got a Ted Bundy running around campus) then a person's gott'a do what a person's gott'a
do. Keep your piece out of sight and your mouth shut. And remember,
if you f*** up and get caught packing where you ain't supposed to pack, your ass is going to jail and no gold bars for you. But, you can probably finish earning your degree in prison.
In the one in a million chance you do have to use your piece in a righteous shoot, you still got a shitload of legal problems coming your way. Take comfort in the fact that you'll be out of jail before you'll be out of the cemetary.
MAJOR D
P.S. I'm all for armed, adult civilians carrying cocealed guns just about anywhere, provided they are sane, sober, familiar with the state and local laws regarding the use of deadly force, and have demonstrated competency with their weapon of choice. This probaly requires some sort of licensing system. So, call me an a**h***.
Adults try to get laid, drink, and go to work...and there are freaks and weirdos on every street corner of America. I really don't see how allowing a responsible and law-abiding college student to bear arms is going to wind up with the campus being a corpse-laden pit of despair. A college campus is a microcosm of our society in general. Perhaps the effort that is going into making sure our students are defenseless would be better spent on finding ways to encourage them to focus more on their studies and self-betterment.
MaverickNH
NES Member
Started here: http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20071211/NEWS/712110302/-1/NEWS03
"The bill, which he [Senator Irwin R-AL] has prefiled for the 2008 session, would allow any student with no prior felony or misdemeanor convictions to bring a gun to campus if he or she secures a gun license, belongs to an ROTC program and completes a gun skills course."
"The bill, which he [Senator Irwin R-AL] has prefiled for the 2008 session, would allow any student with no prior felony or misdemeanor convictions to bring a gun to campus if he or she secures a gun license, belongs to an ROTC program and completes a gun skills course."
I tend to go with the majority of posters here. I don't like any situation where certain groups (in this case ROTC) are given privaleges that others aren't. If it's good enough for ROTC members, then it's good enough for the student population as a whole (providing you have your CCW permit and have no prior criminal record).
If that's the prevailing attitude then, be prepared for no student to ever be allowed to carry on campus. An all or nothing approach is sure to fall flat on its face. Look at it this way, just because you can't buy a postban hicap mag in Mass does that mean that no other state should allow the sale of postban hicaps, or should we use the fact that all the other states allow it as an argument to gain the benefit for us?
The anti's have been chipping away at our rights for years and continue to chip away. They are not playing the "all or nothing" game, it is a death by a thousand cuts. The minute you say, "If all student's can't carry then none of them can." you have handed them another victory. The colleges will come right back and say, "Well, no one can then." Another chip. Another cut. When someone here says that the college kids are a bunch of drunks and not responsible enough to carry firearms you have played into the anti's rhetoric again. Another chip. Another cut. If we can get the ROTC to be allowed to carry it is a victory for us and a foundation to build on...one well crafted discrimination lawsuit by a licensed student who is not a ROTC member could be all it takes to open up the door for all other students to be able to lawfully carry arms. Once the ROTC are allowed to carry, other groups can argue to carry and our victories build.
Likewise, the police officer carry laws are a foundation to build on as well. At this point it is very unfair to a person who is not able to carry out of state but it needs to be viewed as a starting point for others rather than a perk to be taken away from some. Start with what is out there and build on it piece by piece the same way the anti's chip away. Today it's cops - what's wrong with trying to include more and more groups in this exemption until it gets to the point where it will be easier to allow everyone with a license to carry between states rather than try to exclude them? Yeah it will take a while but if you're not in this for the long run you're not in this at all. Our rights have been taken from us piece by piece, we need to win them back piece by piece.
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If they have a valid firearm license, what difference does it make? I would expect that those who elect to lawfully carry a firearm will take the time to be familiar with the safety and legal issues that come with this decision. From the articles I have read, it will not be mandatory that ROTC students carry firearms; it will be an option for them to carry or not.
When our students go to college, we expect them to act as adults.
When they are prepared to act as adults we treat them like children.
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