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Should I provide more info than legally required (permit renewal)

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It is time for me to renew my NH Pistol & Revolver License (first renewal, initially issued when I moved to NH 4 years ago) and I have a decision to make:

State law says no form other than the one prescribed and issued by the Director of State Police may be used for the application and issuance of licenses. Permits in NH are shall issue must be issued or denied within 14 days of application.

My town uses the state form but they have written in pen on the form that they want phone numbers for references (they do say please though [smile]) and when I first got my permit they called my references.

They also say it is "preferred" that I use references that are not related to me (also not required by State law as far as I know (didn't double check that yet)).

It sounds like a no-brainer to follow the letter of State law, provide no phone numbers, and use whatever references I want (I planned on using two of my brother-in-laws as well as an old out of state friend), however I live in a small town with an otherwise nice helpful police force and I don't want to become known in town gossip as a troublemaker.

Your input and feedback is most appreciated [grin]
 
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ONLY fill in the required information on the document, they have no legal right to ask for more and if you start putting phone numbers on "just to be helfpul" they'll start wanting more and more information. It's a shall issue state with a prescribed piece of paper that is to be used for all permits. If they want phone numbers they need to work with the State Police and ask them to add a phone number area to the form.

Basically tell them to pound sand and if they complain get in touch with GONH or somebody.
 
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Call GONH at 603 255 GONH to tell them what is happening. Whether you look for help from them or not, it is helpful for GONH to have that information because they try to keep the departments honest on this matter.
 
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I'm from New Hampshire and recently renewed my Revolver and Pistol Permit.

The sign above the forms said "Please uses not relative references and include phone numbers if possible"

I decided to provide phone numbers and I was called about my new permit being available about 9:30 on the 3rd business day after I submitted my form. While they can't required additional information, it is not illegal for them to request it and it may speed up the processing time.
 
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While they can't required additional information, it is not illegal for them to request it and it may speed up the processing time.

How so? If the requirement is they use the correct form and only the correct form, how is asking for additional info sticking to that? And how is them poking their nose into your business speeding anything up? It is a SHALL ISSUE permit. They should do the background check and ship it out.
 

ScottS

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What's the advantage of giving extralegal information, other than enabling illegal activity on the part of the PD, and encouraging them to do it again in the future? The law in NH is blessedly black-and-white.
The director of state police is hereby authorized and directed to prepare forms for the licenses required under this chapter and forms for the application for such licenses and to supply the same to officials of the cities and towns authorized to issue the licenses. No other forms shall be used by officials of cities and towns.

I don't get it. They are required by law to issue or deny your license within 14 days. What on Earth could be the up-side of giving them more than the law requires?
 
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Supplying only the information required by law does not make you a "trouble maker", it makes you a law abiding citizen.
 
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As many people here have pointed out -

They are not allowed to use any other form - They're not, they are using the State Police Issued form
They are not allowed to denign a permit because additional information is not provided - I'm not saying they are.

Yes, they are required to provide a decision: Issue a permit OR provide a specific, qualifying reason for denial withing 14 days as long as you fill-out the form accurately and provide the minimum required information.

None of that makes requesting additional information illegal
None of that makes drawing the process out for the full 14 days illegal

It is completely within the legal rights of the Police Department to process permit applications who volunteerily provided phone numbers immedately while waiting the full 14 days to process a permit applications that did not include phone numbers.

I'm not saying you should provide the additional information or not, that is a personal choice and it shouldn't affect whether you are issued a permit or not. I am only saying that it may improve the police departments response time and get you your permit a few days (or a week and a half) earlier if you do.

If you have 14 days to wait for your permit, feel free to follow the letter of the law and only provide the exact information required. On the other hand, if you want the permit sooner, you might consider providing the additional requested information.
 

ScottS

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If you have 14 days to wait for your permit, feel free to follow the letter of the law and only provide the exact information required. On the other hand, if you want the permit sooner, you might consider providing the additional requested information.

You're making a gross assumption with absolutely zero factual data to support it. Nice.

BTW, when you add items to a form where they didn't exist before, that's no longer the State Police Issued Form. I suppose in your interpretation, if they wrote on the form "On reverse, state good and compelling reasons why you need this license," that would still be "using the State Police Issued Form?"
 

SeanT

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I agree with the other posters that you should ignore any written on additional requests to the "official form". How do you think us Baystaters ended up with totally screwed up laws? I bet it started with some PDs wanting just a little more info.

Definitely get in touch with GONH. I don't know if it makes sense to get in touch with the State Police as well, since someone is screwing with their form, but I'll let other more knowledgeable folks give their take on that.
 

Brin747

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I agree with the other posters that you should ignore any written on additional requests to the "official form". How do you think us Baystaters ended up with totally screwed up laws? I bet it started with some PDs wanting just a little more info.

Definitely get in touch with GONH. I don't know if it makes sense to get in touch with the State Police as well, since someone is screwing with their form, but I'll let other more knowledgeable folks give their take on that.

Good points.
 

one-eyed Jack

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I've had the non res NH license for 45 years. Never once has a reference been contacted. Has anyone else had a ref. contacted? My license still has two years to go. If they are still doing this then, I'll think of something cute just to piss them off. Jack.
 
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This was a renewal, right? On the form (I don't have one in front of me) isn't there something to check to indicate this is a renewal and not a first issue? If it's being renewed isn't there a spot for "existing license number"?

Seems to me that a renewal shouldn't need anything more than "here's my old number, I'm still at the same address". One of the guys I worked with renewed recently and didn't fill out more than that; he didn't get any grief from his local PD; he may have actually called up and asked about it.
 
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You're making a gross assumption with absolutely zero factual data to support it. Nice.

Yes, I don't have a comparison because I didn't try just following the letter of the law, I provided the requested information and recieved my permit in less than 3 business days. It is entirely possible that I would have recieved it in 3 business days had I not provided the requested information.

At the OP's PD, he said they wrote on the form, which you could argue made it no longer the State Police Form, I wish you luck with that arguement in court.

At my local PD, they made no alterations to the form. They placed a sign with additional requests seperate from the standard form. They made claim that this would have any effect on the processing of the application. None of that violates the letter of the law in any way.

BTW - For what reason(s) do you make application to cary a pistol in New Hampshire? is one of the questions on the standard form.


Also, the quickest way to get Phone Number added to the form and to become a piece of required information is to rub it in the face of the local police that it's not on the form and not required. If the State Police start getting complaints from local chiefs of police requsting that it get added, it's going to get added.

If you don't want to provide it, then don't provide it and go about your business. Don't make an issue out of it unless they make an issue out of it. The law doesn't stipulate what can and can't be on the form, only that the State Police create the form and every town must use it.
 
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This was a renewal, right? On the form (I don't have one in front of me) isn't there something to check to indicate this is a renewal and not a first issue? If it's being renewed isn't there a spot for "existing license number"?

Seems to me that a renewal shouldn't need anything more than "here's my old number, I'm still at the same address". One of the guys I worked with renewed recently and didn't fill out more than that; he didn't get any grief from his local PD; he may have actually called up and asked about it.

Yes, the form has a place to ender your existing permit number and its date of expiration but the form doesn't say anything about not having to to complete the rest of the form. This is one of the areas that the local licensing authority has discression. Within the letter of the law, the local licencing authority could have easily claimed that the form was not properly submitted (since it wasn't filled out) and thus doesn't have to issue or denigh the permit. (14-day clock never started) or he could be nice and process the renewal because he has sufficient information to process the renewal.
 

ScottS

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Yes, I don't have a comparison because I didn't try just following the letter of the law, I provided the requested information and recieved my permit in less than 3 business days. It is entirely possible that I would have recieved it in 3 business days had I not provided the requested information.

At the OP's PD, he said they wrote on the form, which you could argue made it no longer the State Police Form, I wish you luck with that arguement in court.

At my local PD, they made no alterations to the form. They placed a sign with additional requests seperate from the standard form. They made claim that this would have any effect on the processing of the application. None of that violates the letter of the law in any way.

BTW - For what reason(s) do you make application to cary a pistol in New Hampshire? is one of the questions on the standard form.


Also, the quickest way to get Phone Number added to the form and to become a piece of required information is to rub it in the face of the local police that it's not on the form and not required. If the State Police start getting complaints from local chiefs of police requsting that it get added, it's going to get added.

If you don't want to provide it, then don't provide it and go about your business. Don't make an issue out of it unless they make an issue out of it. The law doesn't stipulate what can and can't be on the form, only that the State Police create the form and every town must use it.

Gosh, I have never provided phone numbers on my applications, and mine have always come back in less than 4 days. My wife's applicaiton, with no phone numbers provided, came back in exactly one day. What are we to make of that?

What I told the OP was to ignore extralegal requirements. Although I'm well aware of what's on the offical form, I was using an example. Since you nit-picked, we'll use a different one. If, on the front of the form, they wrote (or added): On the rear, "List all guns wishing to be carried by serial number," would it still be the State Police provided form?[rolleyes]

Also, the quickest way to get Phone Number added to the form and to become a piece of required information is to rub it in the face of the local police that it's not on the form and not required. If the State Police start getting complaints from local chiefs of police requsting that it get added, it's going to get added.
Honestly, where do you come up with this crap? I guess it's just "assert it and it must be so day." Great. GO-NH has aggressively stamped out every instance they've found of PD's placing extralegal requirements, including phone numbers, on the P&RL form. Where's the action by the State Police?

The OP should simply ignore the request. To do otherwise is enabling extralegal requirements, no matter how slight. If the State thought phone numbers were required on there, they would have put them there.
 
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Like, I said, they tricked me because I was still sheepish coming up from MA, and ended up giving them phone numbers for my references, and a copy of my DL. They called my references, and the one that ignored the calls had obviously no effect on my permit. Like I said, for me, I will never do that again as long as the laws are what they are. I will give them only what we the people are laid back enough to allow them to take through the legislative process.
 
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I think that at this point in the discussion it's important to note that there have been radically different experiences among everyone on this forum, from all northeast states.
 

ScottS

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I think that at this point in the discussion it's important to note that there have been radically different experiences among everyone on this forum, from all northeast states.
Good point, but this is specific to the NH Resident Pistol and Revolver License, and it's governing regulations.
 

natf

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A less confrontational option that allows you to maintain your cooperative appearance is to play dumb. Print out your own copy of the form (found at http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/documents/dssp85.pdf ) fill it out and bring it in. Hand your form and check to the dispatcher (I'm assuming) and just say you'd like to apply for a permit. If it goes anything like my town you'll get your permit within a few days. Otherwise unless you've got other problems visit them in fourteen days and ask for your permit.

-Nat
 
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