Should I pick 6-24x50 or 4-16x50 (both Nikon FX1000 Black) for .308 semi-auto

[dcmdon]

You guys may find the gun above to be interesting. I built it like 8 years ago.

Mega matched upper and lower. Lilja barrel with matched bolt. Geissele trigger with VLtor fixed stock.
JP adjustable gas block. Its a tack driver.

Although it is most accurate with bullets that are seated out pretty far so they won't fit in a magazine, it will still put 5 shots into a group the size of a nickel at 100 yards. I keep meaning to ask Lilja about this (maybe my leade is longer than spec) but never get around to it.

 

[mac1911]

Hmm. What is a ghost click. I watched a youtube video titled "ghost click" with no explanation and didn't see much.

It did seem like the click was louder every other click. As long as every click moves the reticle I don't care.
I was zeroing one this weekend and took this pic just to document the knob setting, but it turned out to be a pretty cool photo.

Don

View attachment 345458

Ghost clicks are lash in the mechanism.
Shows up more in less expensive scopes.
Basically ghost clicks are you dial up 5 moa but it only goes up 3. Or it can be even worse when you reverse turret dirrection and it takes several clicks before you get positive movement of the reticle.



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Wf0Cuwwi8


Growing up my dad taught me how to do a simple tracking test. After a rough zero We placed a large piece of 1" graph paper at 50 yards with a 1" aiming dot in the middle.
Then 2 shots on center, adjust the turret 10 min or so or 80% of the max adjustment ( my dad always believed running the adjustments to the extremes was not good)
So while holding on the aim point you adjust 10min up shoot , 10min left shoot , 10 min down shoot, 10 min down again shoot , 10 min right shoot 10 min right again shoot, 10 min up shoot , 10 min up shoot again , 10 min left shoot , 10 min down should bring you back to center. Should leave shots 5" apart all nice and square as long as you/ gun and ammo can shoot well enough.

Short version is shot on center , adjust up and left 10 min shoot , adjust 20 down and right 20, up 10, down 20 left 20, up 10 right 10
You should end up with 6 shots.
1 center then 4 in the corners and last shot in center. Again if you cant hold a min of 1" at 5 0 yards your only going to see errors in the scope if they are bad.
So if you can fall with in 1" of what your scope is suposed to do your doing well.
The old scopes or scopes turrets that are capped are generally ment to be zeroed for PBR and leave it alone. Then get to know your reticle and how to use it. The old school 30/30 reticles had a lot of ways to judge distance and hold over.

Have fun and try as many scopes as you can

 

[mac1911]

You guys may find the gun above to be interesting. I built it like 8 years ago.

Mega matched upper and lower. Lilja barrel with matched bolt. Geissele trigger with VLtor fixed stock.
JP adjustable gas block. Its a tack driver.

Although it is most accurate with bullets that are seated out pretty far so they won't fit in a magazine, it will still put 5 shots into a group the size of a nickel at 100 yards. I keep meaning to ask Lilja about this (maybe my leade is longer than spec) but never get around to it.

i think it was Bill Wylde of 223 wylde fame said 223 likes to jump. lot of 223 match barrels are cut long to feed those little ng 80 and 90 bullets. I,have a 1" 2 23 heavy barrel on my AR "varmint" rifle. 77 grwin noslers shoot best at "magazine fit" length. But those 80 grain noslers really tighten up about .005 off IIRC

 

[frenchman]

IMO, Nikon makes a semi decent scope, but they're going out of the scope business, which means that warranty cases will be limited to refund. I am looking for a scope right now, and from what I see, I'm going to steer clear from chinesium like (some) Vortex, Athlon, Bushnell, Sightron and others. There's three countries that are making scopes I will buy from here on out: Germany (I say that like I could ever afford a Steiner/Swarovski/Kahles/Zeiss. Lol) with their most excellent Schott glass, Japanese or US. No more turrets assembled by a 6 year old blind little girl in the back of a Wuhan sweat shop. Nightforce has a great and almost affordable SHV line, and if you look around, you can still find a Leupold MK IV.

 

[imstuner]

I have a Nikon black line and don’t regert it.

 

[mac1911]

IMO, Nikon makes a semi decent scope, but they're going out of the scope business, which means that warranty cases will be limited to refund. I am looking for a scope right now, and from what I see, I'm going to steer clear from chinesium like (some) Vortex, Athlon, Bushnell, Sightron and others. There's three countries that are making scopes I will buy from here on out: Germany (I say that like I could ever afford a Steiner/Swarovski/Kahles/Zeiss. Lol) with their most excellent Schott glass, Japanese or US. No more turrets assembled by a 6 year old blind little girl in the back of a Wuhan sweat shop. Nightforce has a great and almost affordable SHV line, and if you look around, you can still find a Leupold MK IV.

AFAIK Sightron SIII and SV lines are made in Japan the rest in the Philippines , Athlon is also made in japan and I think they are both made in the Light Optical Works facility ? Thats what I found out looking into both Athlon and Sightron. I have the sightron SIII 8x32x54
For that $700-$1000 range the SIII really had what I wanted. Good thing is you can find last years latest greatest models at a good price right now if you look around. The MK IV are running about 1/2 of what they where a year or so ago.








http://www.light-op.co.jp/english/

 

[92G]

For a 308, all of this is too much magnification. The tradeoffs of FOV and light transmission are not worth it. A simple SWFA 10x42 will provide better glass, turret tracking and quicker ranging at far less cost than anything from Nikon. If variable mag is a must (which it’s not), I would want my glass to come down to either 3 or 4x at lowest setting. And FFP is totally overblown and not helpful. If ranging you’re gonna use highest mag setting so SFP is just fine.

 

[mac1911]

You guys may find the gun above to be interesting. I built it like 8 years ago.

Mega matched upper and lower. Lilja barrel with matched bolt. Geissele trigger with VLtor fixed stock.
JP adjustable gas block. Its a tack driver.

Although it is most accurate with bullets that are seated out pretty far so they won't fit in a magazine, it will still put 5 shots into a group the size of a nickel at 100 yards. I keep meaning to ask Lilja about this (maybe my leade is longer than spec) but never get around to it.

i think it was Bill Wylde of 223 wylde fame said 223 likes to jump. lot of 223 match barrels are cut long to feed those little ng 80 and 90 bullets. I,have a 1" 2 23 heavy barrel on my AR "varmint" rifle. 77 grwin noslers shoot best at "magazine fit" length. But those 80 grain noslers really tighten up about .005 off

 

[dcmdon]

I should have mentioned, its a .308

 

[NHKevin]

I am former USMC. Our snipers do 1,000 yards on enemy combatants with .308 and highly customized sniper rifles but complain about erratic performance at that distance. This is real-life battlefield performance, not Sunday afternoon target practice at your local gun club rifle range with your off the rack .308. The.300 Win Mag is the preferred choice for 1,000 yards and beyond.

You are? "Our" snipers? How long, exactly did you spend in the USMC?

 

[NHKevin]

Devil Bro you are and always will be a Marine.
Not x, not former.
Just Marine.

Semper Fi!

Sure about that?

 

[308rifleman]

You are? "Our" snipers? How long, exactly did you spend in the USMC?

I was in a year.

You are? "Our" snipers? How long, exactly did you spend in the USMC?

Some of the guys I went through boot with attended sniper school. They trained out to 1,000 yards with the M40 sniper rifle. 26" heavy barrel. Fixed 10X scope. Unertl, if I remember correctly. I was a TOW gunner. Completly different skill set. Refusing the anthrax vaccine ended my stint in the Corps. Still think I made the right choice. A lot of people suffered permanent health problems from that vaccine.

 

[beaker]

I have shot, and hit, 14" targets with 308 out to one mile. Its routine for long distance shooters

What rifle and scope were you using? How many hits per 10 shots? Not being sarcastic just curious.

 

[Davidk]

What rifle and scope were you using? How many hits per 10 shots? Not being sarcastic just curious.

LaRue PredOBR. Nightforce ATACR 7-35x. We had numerous hits, but repeatability was low due to wind. 308 gets pushed hard at those distances.

 

[mac1911]

LaRue PredOBR. Nightforce ATACR 7-35x. We had numerous hits, but repeatability was low due to wind. 308 gets pushed hard at those distances.

1700 yards , you can sneeze and move that bullet, my friends son moved out to texas and really got into shooting.
Hes got some crazy custom rifle in 308 shooting those custom bullets made on a lathe?_brand escapes me.
Pushing a 180 gn bullet to 2900fps , he says the drop from 1000-1500(< max range where he is) crazy along with rapid velocity loss . They have a breakfast shoot every other sunday at 1500 first to miss buys. They do it early as the winds pick up quickly. Says 10' drift at 1500 in light wind!
Hes surrounded by old timers and now has a 30-378 and says that thing is stupid accurate.
Im lucky to get my 223 service rifle in the black at 600 and thats 36" !loss

 

[moojpg2]

I have a pile of Nikon scopes from their different lines, never had one fail, and that's including one on a really lightweight custom .300wby mag that has had the shit kicked out of it on hunting trips.

That being said, 3.5-10 with a mil dot reticle is more than enough for me on a .308 semi auto. Hate the super high magnification scopes.

 

[Davidk]

I have a pile of Nikon scopes from their different lines, never had one fail, and that's including one on a really lightweight custom .300wby mag that has had the shit kicked out of it on hunting trips.

That being said, 3.5-10 with a mil dot reticle is more than enough for me on a .308 semi auto. Hate the super high magnification scopes.

It depends on what you are doing. I do precision shooting and all I use is high magnification

 

[moojpg2]

It depends on what you are doing. I do precision shooting and all I use is high magnification

I run a 700 Police set up to be an m24 clone and a tuned up 700 Police LTR out to about 1180 yds on private land with 118lr style handloads and federal gmm 175gr smk's, never saw the need for more than 10x. I've shot plenty of groups that are sub MOA at that range too. Higher magnification than that just makes my eyes bug out. I could see it for shooting tiny groups doing bench rest, but that's about it, and I don't have patience for that type of thing. As long as I'm shooting minute of ISIS goat f***er or zombie, I'm more than content.

 

[Davidk]

Again, it depends on what you are doing and your expectations. I shoot prone with a bipod and 100 yrds a lot and am looking for those elusive 1/4" groups. Personally, I would never use a 10x for long distance. My favorite scope for long distance is the Nightforce 7-35X. To each his own

 

[dcmdon]

IMO, Nikon makes a semi decent scope, but they're going out of the scope business, which means that warranty cases will be limited to refund. I am looking for a scope right now, and from what I see, I'm going to steer clear from chinesium like (some) Vortex, Athlon, Bushnell, Sightron and others. There's three countries that are making scopes I will buy from here on out: Germany (I say that like I could ever afford a Steiner/Swarovski/Kahles/Zeiss. Lol) with their most excellent Schott glass, Japanese or US. No more turrets assembled by a 6 year old blind little girl in the back of a Wuhan sweat shop. Nightforce has a great and almost affordable SHV line, and if you look around, you can still find a Leupold MK IV.

The Sightron SIII is made in Japan.

 

[dcmdon]

I was in a year.

Some of the guys I went through boot with attended sniper school. They trained out to 1,000 yards with the M40 sniper rifle. 26" heavy barrel. Fixed 10X scope. Unertl, if I remember correctly. I was a TOW gunner. Completly different skill set. Refusing the anthrax vaccine ended my stint in the Corps. Still think I made the right choice. A lot of people suffered permanent health problems from that vaccine.

I know a guy who went over to Iraq after 9/11. They gave him a ton of vaccines. Something like 18 of them all in one pop. His immune system went nuts. Now he has lupus and will for the rest of his life.

Good choice.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

IMO, Nikon makes a semi decent scope, but they're going out of the scope business, which means that warranty cases will be limited to refund. I am looking for a scope right now, and from what I see, I'm going to steer clear from chinesium like (some) Vortex, Athlon, Bushnell, Sightron and others. There's three countries that are making scopes I will buy from here on out: Germany (I say that like I could ever afford a Steiner/Swarovski/Kahles/Zeiss. Lol) with their most excellent Schott glass, Japanese or US. No more turrets assembled by a 6 year old blind little girl in the back of a Wuhan sweat shop. Nightforce has a great and almost affordable SHV line, and if you look around, you can still find a Leupold MK IV.

Kahles and Swaro are Austrian, rather than German. Otherwise, very nice glass. I own a Kahles K16i and the glass quality is outstanding. Like looking at reality in high definition. +1 on not getting a Nikon because they're leaving the scope market.

For a 308, all of this is too much magnification. The tradeoffs of FOV and light transmission are not worth it. A simple SWFA 10x42 will provide better glass, turret tracking and quicker ranging at far less cost than anything from Nikon. If variable mag is a must (which it’s not), I would want my glass to come down to either 3 or 4x at lowest setting. And FFP is totally overblown and not helpful. If ranging you’re gonna use highest mag setting so SFP is just fine.

I agree that 6-24 is too much magnification. 4-18 is a lot but not too much. OP's host rifle is a M1A. On a .308 bolt action precision rifle, then yeah, 6x as a minimum isn't so nuts. But a M1A build is likely going to be a DMR build and a DMR should have low-end magnification, like at least 3x as a starting point.

If the gun can shoot sub-MOA, then by all means build it into a true sniper rifle. But otherwise, a DMR rifle could get by with a fixed 3x or 4x like a SVD or M76 or M1903A4. I personally would get a variable optic, however, because I like to be able to zoom in and out depending on the target.

 

[dcmdon]

In post #23 I seemed to advocate for getting the higher power scope.
But I forgot something very important.

Generally speaking for a given scope, the lower power version will actually have MORE elevation adjustment. So its counterintuitive, but if you are putting it on something without an inclined rail, the lower magnification may actually be better for longer distances.

 

[dcmdon]

In post #23 I seemed to advocate for getting the higher power scope.
But I forgot something very important.

Generally speaking for a given scope, the lower power version will actually have MORE elevation adjustment. So its counterintuitive, but if you are putting it on something without an inclined rail, the lower magnification may actually be better for longer distances.

 

[dcmdon]

Again, it depends on what you are doing and your expectations. I shoot prone with a bipod and 100 yrds a lot and am looking for those elusive 1/4" groups. Personally, I would never use a 10x for long distance. My favorite scope for long distance is the Nightforce 7-35X. To each his own

This is the best justification for a high powered scope. That and reading mirage.