Shotgun Primer Question...

[ateegee]

I have been reloading 12ga @1-1/8oz loads with Red Dot @ approx. 18.3 Grains. I just finished off the bag of 1-1/8 claybuster wads that came with the press and am ready move to the 1oz now that I have 2 bags of, before finally moving to 7/8oz loads.

I have been using Cheddite 209 Primers that I got with all the other components from a club buy and club member recommendations. So far they a have worked just fine with AA's / Gun Club's / STS's.

BUT... when I read all the recipe charts from Alliant or Claybusters or where ever.. they are very specific about the primer / wad / hull combos.

Here is my question. Do I need to be pickier and be using Rem 209 primers with Rem Hulls and Win209 with AA's etc? Or am I fine staying with Cheddites with everything?

The cheddite primers seem to all seat properly in all the hulls and every shell has gone bang just fine, but I don't want to be unsafe or F*cking up my gun with wrong pressures or whatever from extended use with a wrong primer / wad / hull combo, as i'm shooing about 6 rounds a week, right now.

Thanks for reading.
–A.

 

[sharona]

Check the hodgdon web site or ballastic products web. Or ask the old timers at your club. My guess is you should be fine

 

[icyclefar]

The best default answer anyone can give you is: ALWAYS LOAD BASED UPON A PUBLISHED RECIPE

Moving on ............

Here's the thing, for most published loads 18.3 grains of Red Dot is at the upper end with published pressures around 10,300 psi.

SAAMI max pressures for 12GA are as follows:

12 gauge 11,500 (except 3-1/2 in.)
12 gauge 3 1/2 in. 14,000

I personally would never make a component substitution when the nearest published load is close to max. (9,500 psi or greater)

Now, if you take all of your components, ignoring the primer, and can target a recipe around 8,600 psi or less, then most experienced reloader would tell you that it was safe to use any primer you wish.

Remember, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I myself will stick with published loads.

Catastrophic failure of a shotgun seldom occurs from a single over pressured shell, but is more likely to occur in a gun that has been fed a diet of over pressured loads for a long time.

 

[ateegee]

The best default answer anyone can give you is: ALWAYS LOAD BASED UPON A PUBLISHED RECIPE

Moving on ............

Here's the thing, for most published loads 18.3 grains of Red Dot is at the upper end with published pressures around 10,300 psi.

SAAMI max pressures for 12GA are as follows:

12 gauge 11,500 (except 3-1/2 in.)
12 gauge 3 1/2 in. 14,000

I personally would never make a component substitution when the nearest published load is close to max. (9,500 psi or greater)

Now, if you take all of your components, ignoring the primer, and can target a recipe around 8,600 psi or less, then most experienced reloader would tell you that it was safe to use any primer you wish.

Remember, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I myself will stick with published loads.

Catastrophic failure of a shotgun seldom occurs from a single over pressured shell, but is more likely to occur in a gun that has been fed a diet of over pressured loads for a long time.

I'm definitely going to take your advise and scale back with a recipe of fewer grains.

I heard this somewhere...Is it true that your lead increases or decreases by 6" for every change of 50/100fps in velocity? (Skeet)

Thanks Icyclefar!!!

 

[icyclefar]

Look at this, then forget you ever saw it and shoot every target the same way regardless of the velocity of the shell you're using.




*Keep in mind that the example uses station four for illustration, four being the biggest leads required on the field

 

[ateegee]

HA! Will do!

Much Appreciated!

 

[improman]

Always use the manual BUT..My dad used to load from a very simple method that didn't say nothing about primers and used what he had. He loaded 100,s of shotgun shells with a lee handloader that use dippers that were numbered for the powder in the recipe from lee and a dipper that was ounces for shot size, that was it, then hammer it shut.

 

[mac1911]

Unless your shooting from the fence there is no need to run 7/8 loads to fast.
Figure your average 12g target load runs 1150-1200 fps.
I was running 7/8 once shot load with 16.5 grains of clays to conserve powder/shot
Also for light loads for the wife. These will break target's all the way back to the fence.
The lack of 1/4 oz of shot is more of a handicap than the velocity.
I use chedite primers in all my trap loads. I do not try to push the higher end of data. IIRC my loads are always around 8k psi.

 

[icyclefar]

If your shooting clay targets and loading for speed, you're most likely kidding yourself.

That said, for a given hull, wad, and shot weight, there is a velocity which yields the BEST PATTERN at your target distance. Finding that can be beneficial, the place to look for it is at the patterning board.

My best patterning 7/8 oz 12GA SKEET load is with 17.8 grains of clays, STS hull, w209 primer, and the Claybuster grey 7/8 wad.

 

[mac1911]

If your shooting clay targets and loading for speed, you're most likely kidding yourself.

That said, for a given hull, wad, and shot weight, there is a velocity which yields the BEST PATTERN at your target distance. Finding that can be beneficial, the place to look for it is at the patterning board.

My best patterning 7/8 oz 12GA SKEET load is with 17.8 grains of clays, STS hull, w209 primer, and the Claybuster grey 7/8 wad.

What are you looking for in your pattern testing?
How do you figure out what is a good pattern?

I basically only pattern to make sure the shot charge is going where I'm looking and the choke is some what close to what I precieve it should be.
I have found several bad chokes doing this. From changing point impact to having open cyl pattern with a Full choke. Browning took care of them as did Seminole

As for speed? I was shooting club "fence" matches with 20gauge target loads out of my 12g with the Seminole gauge adapter and running my same average as 16 yard line. Visually #3 straight where the most challenging for me.

 

[gerrycaruso]

I've always used whatever brand of primer I could find. I think all 209 primers will work fine.

 

[icyclefar]

What are you looking for in your pattern testing?
How do you figure out what is a good pattern?

I basically only pattern to make sure the shot charge is going where I'm looking and the choke is some what close to what I precieve it should be.
I have found several bad chokes doing this. From changing point impact to having open cyl pattern with a Full choke. Browning took care of them as did Seminole

As for speed? I was shooting club "fence" matches with 20gauge target loads out of my 12g with the Seminole gauge adapter and running my same average as 16 yard line. Visually #3 straight where the most challenging for me.

For that load I want even distribution across a 24" circle at skeet distances.

Run them too fast and they tend to crowd pellets into the core, too slow and I end up with lots of fliers outside my desired pattern.

My skeet rig barrels are over bored to .740 by the manufacturer, I wouldn't expect my pet load to run the same in everyone's gun, but it is what works for me.

Even running skeet chokes my exit diameter is 735, still larger than what most factory barrels are bored to.

In the end it's sometimes an exercise in hair splitting, but it keeps me off the streets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ateegee]

i just went down to 1oz. w/ Cheddite 209, Pink clay busters wads, 16.7 grains and AA hulls.... and shot my first 50 straight (Skeet)... I can't believe how it was crushing them. Also amazed at the lighter felt recoil of just 2 full grains.

7/8 is next, once I use up these 2 free bags of pink wads...

 

[mac1911]

i just went down to 1oz. w/ Cheddite 209, Pink clay busters wads, 16.7 grains and AA hulls.... and shot my first 50 straight (Skeet)... I can't believe how it was crushing them. Also amazed at the lighter felt recoil of just 2 full grains.

7/8 is next, once I use up these 2 free bags of pink wads...

If your on them even 900fps 7/8 oz loads will crush them.
We had a old timer who would come down to the range with a old 410 bolt action and run his 50 straight , finish his coffee and go home. Maybe 3-5 times a year.

 

[NavelOfficer]

You all probably know about the Cheerio trick to fill the wad with the lighter loads... I suppose you could also use generic circular oat cereal, if cheaper.

 

[mac1911]

You all probably know about the Cheerio trick to fill the wad with the lighter loads... I suppose you could also use generic circular oat cereal, if cheaper.

The pink claybusters work well with 7/8oz loads. I only had to adjust the crimp a tad.