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Shotgun Capacity/Questiions in Massachusetts

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Having only an FID, and reading this entire threat, I'll let the dealer do the decision making. If they sell me the Remington Model 870 Express Tactical that I'm interested in getting, GREAT. If they say no, time to start looking at other guns. I think the guys at Four Seasons will guide me right.
 
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Relying on dealer knowledge about gun laws is a bad idea. Where's the dealer going to be when you get arrested? Although I don't think anyone has been prosecuted for a >5 pump action, you don't want to make case law.
 

Len-2A Training

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Relying on dealer knowledge about gun laws is a bad idea. Where's the dealer going to be when you get arrested? Although I don't think anyone has been prosecuted for a >5 pump action, you don't want to make case law.

Dealers know shamefully little wrt MA gun laws. Maybe 6-8 months ago I noticed 2 Ruger 10/22s on the rack in either BassPro or Dicks (forget which). One with a HD SS target barrel had a tag on it "LTC Only" whereas the one with the blued pencil-barrel was NOT marked similarly! [thinking] [Neither is a large-capacity gun by MGLs. The way dealers treat them varies all over the place. [shocked] ]

I put this question "on the floor" at Chief Glidden's seminar in May. The answer was that if it is a tube mag (or even a tube extension) that it is NOT a large capacity feeding device. If it is a regular "magazine" and >5 rds fit, it would be a large capacity magazine.

In my MA Gun Law seminar I go into a bit of detail on why this is the case. See below.
 
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So, since the Remington Model 870 Express Tactical normally holds (4) 3" or 2-3/4" shells in the magazine, it will not be considered large capacity even with the 2 shot extension. And the >5 rds would not apply too?
 

jar

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I put this question "on the floor" at Chief Glidden's seminar in May. The answer was that if it is a tube mag (or even a tube extension) that it is NOT a large capacity feeding device. If it is a regular "magazine" and >5 rds fit, it would be a large capacity magazine.

In my MA Gun Law seminar I go into a bit of detail on why this is the case. See below.

Interesting. That doesn't seem to jive with a pplain language reading of the statute. Can you point me toward what I'm missing?
 

jar

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Ah, thanks, dunno how I missed that thread. I was hoping for something more than common sense though; I'm not sure how far that would get you in a MA court.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk
 

drgrant

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Where's the case law for this pump shotgun tube capacity limit business? It doesn't really exist, as far as I know.

This will only get interesting once the KSG gets sold in MA. And it will. I'm also willing to bet the legal silence will be just as deafening. [laugh]

-Mike
 

M1911

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I have seen high capacity pump guns on dealers shelves for years. You can interperate the laws any way you wish but if all the local FFL dealers have sold them for years without getting in trouble I *guess* thats good enough for me. To each there own.
Some MA FFL dealers have sold a post-ban semi-auto shotgun with two stocks, a straight and a pistol grip, with an extended magazine installed.

Just because a dealer has done that doesn't make it legal.
 

M1911

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Having only an FID, and reading this entire threat, I'll let the dealer do the decision making. If they sell me the Remington Model 870 Express Tactical that I'm interested in getting, GREAT. If they say no, time to start looking at other guns. I think the guys at Four Seasons will guide me right.
It's not the dealer who would end up in jail.
 

M1911

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So my question is this: suppose someone has a semi-auto shotgun, say an 11-87. The shotgun is post-ban. It has a traditional straight stock. Capacity is 5 + 1. Joe Gunowner goes and buys a new production Choate 2-round extension and installs it. It seems to me that the consensus on legality under MA laws is: who the heck knows?

If it was a pre-ban shotgun and a post-ban extension, I think that still doesn't change anything. If it was a pre-ban shotgun and a pre-ban extension, then it is perhaps more likely to be legal (provided it was in an AWB configuration prior to the magic date in '94).

Am I missing anything?
 

Len-2A Training

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Extended tubes are legal according to what I was told. Info on source, etc. was posted earlier (and is discussed in my MA gun laws seminar).
 

drgrant

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Part of the problem with tubes is there is an inherent ambiguity in the capacity of a tube, especially in a shotgun that takes 3.5 inch shells. So WTF is the "rated capacity" of a tube on such a shotgun? What's the law supposed to say.... the capacity is determined by the chambering of the gun? Or the capacity is determined by the size of the smallest shell you could use in it?

If we used that as the definition of the law than any 12 duck/fudd gun with a 3 round limiter in it is illegal, because if I stuff that gun with Aguila minishells it will probably hold more than 5 of them.

A good lawyer could probably turn that into a huge dog and pony show in court to illustrate the graphic stupidity of the law. Box magazines are easy to show capacity.... shotgun tubes, not so much. I don't think there is really any case law, state or federal, that delves into shotgun tube capacities, either. My guess is the prosection would try to go for "context". The whole thing is stupid.

-Mike
 
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I still can't wrap my head around the fact that this conversation is actually happening. I need to get out of MA, ASAP.


I'm also still curious about an 11+ round internal box magazine.

Plenty of room in Georgia, where this is legal!

saiga12.jpg
 
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That is because MA wants you to break the law that you don't understand, so they can take your rights away.

And they want to confuse the hell out of people so they just won't buy anything at all. Here's my question on this is there any reason why I can't buy a PUMP gun in another state and bring it to mass, I travel the east coast a lot and have seen better deals down south probably due to the larger supply. Is there anything that clearly disqualify's a pump gun from being legal in ma. It's my understanding that all I have to do with a long gun is register the gun is that correct?
 
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And they want to confuse the hell out of people so they just won't buy anything at all. Here's my question on this is there any reason why I can't buy a PUMP gun in another state and bring it to mass, I travel the east coast a lot and have seen better deals down south probably due to the larger supply. Is there anything that clearly disqualify's a pump gun from being legal in ma. It's my understanding that all I have to do with a long gun is register the gun is that correct?

I may be wrong but, you can not purchase a long gun and bring it into the state without sending it through an FFL unless the state touches your state.
 

jar

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Right, MA is worse. NO NR can buy anything in MA even if they possess a NR LTC. No Alien with MA Resident FID can buy anything in MA either. [thinking] [rolleyes] [angry]

Good point. As a MA resident, I always forget about that. Why would a non-resident want to buy AWB compliant guns at high prices anyway? There's no problem for MA residents to buy long guns anywhere as long as they're MA legal.
 
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Yes, you are wrong.

So I can purchase a long gun in any state in the USA and not have to send it through an FFL? Can you mail long guns to yourself from another state? I know I can't purchase from someone, but if I bought a rifle while visiting family in NC say.
 

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So I can purchase a long gun From a dealer in any state in the USA and not have to send it through an FFL? Yes. Can you mail long guns to yourself from another state?Yes. I know I can't purchase from someone, but if I bought a rifle while visiting family in NC say. Buy it from a dealer, than fill out FA10 within 7 Days from when the gun enters MA


If I read your questions correctly - See Bold
 
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