Shotgun AWB

Edmond Dantes

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Hey All,
I'm a little confused on the parameters surrounding the Assault Weapons Ban in relation to shotguns. If someone could explain the limitations that would be awesome. I'd like to buy a Saiga12 shotgun (If I can find one) so some more directed questions may include: What is considered High Capacity in terms of detachable magazine shotguns? Do the remainder of the rules also apply? For instance since I'm assuming it'll be almost impossible to find pre-ban high capacity shotgun magazines. Does that mean I can add a collapsible stock and pistol grip (2/5 evil features)? Anybody know where I could find one?

The last question which probably belongs in another thread but I'll ask it here anyways. I have a Saiga 7.62x39 that I just recently finished converting which I'd like to add a red dot sight to. Anyone know where I can find an affordable yet reliable red dot that'll mount on a Picatinny rail? I was just looking at Kobra but they seem a little expensive and I'm thinking there must be something of equal quality that's somewhere around the $100 or less category.


Edmond Dantes
 
A shotgun is an Assault Weapon if it is semi-automatic and has least 2 of:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
 
A shotgun is an Assault Weapon if it is semi-automatic and has least 2 of:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
Today 05:07 PM.

Is there a round limit? For instance, that detachable magazine can't have more than X number of rounds? And just for clarification that means we can only have one of the above correct? Otherwise it is an assault weapon and consequently banned?
 
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Is there a round limit? For instance, that detachable magazine can't have more than X number of rounds? And just for clarification that means we can only have one of the above correct? Otherwise it is an assault weapon and consequently banned?

Yes, you are correct, you can have only one of the above 'evil' features. Any more than that is an assault weapon and banned unless the shotgun is pre-ban (in other words, if it was an assault weapon on Sept 13th, 1994 and it was legally owned, it is grandfathered and legal to own).

As to the round limit, if it holds more than 5 shells in either a fixed or detachable magazine, it is considered a 'large capacity weapon'. Large Capacity Weapons are not banned (though post-ban large capacity magazines are), but you need an LTC to possess them.
 
Yes, you are correct, you can have only one of the above 'evil' features. Any more than that is an assault weapon and banned unless the shotgun is pre-ban (in other words, if it was an assault weapon on Sept 13th, 1994 and it was legally owned, it is grandfathered and legal to own).

As to the round limit, if it holds more than 5 shells in either a fixed or detachable magazine, it is considered a 'large capacity weapon'. Large Capacity Weapons are not banned (though post-ban large capacity magazines are), but you need an LTC to possess them.

So from my understanding the stock Saiga 12 (no folding or telescoping stock or pistol grip) is legal to own. Now my last question would be does a thumbhole stock count as a pistol grip?
198_Skel_Stock.jpg


Also, are there any restrictions on Pump action shotguns?
 
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So from my understanding the stock Saiga 12 (no folding or telescoping stock or pistol grip) is legal to own. Now my last question would be does a thumbhole stock count as a pistol grip?

Yup, a Saiga without the folder and pistol grip should be no problem, as long as it complies with the federal 922(r) import rules. Don't know about the thumbhole stock. I think that's been discussed before, try a search (or somebody else may come along with the answer).

Edmond Dantes said:
Also, are there any restrictions on Pump action shotguns?

Nope. A pump action anything cannot be an assault weapon nor a large capacity weapon.
 
jdubois, I'm confused with your answer.
Is AWB different for a semiauto rifle and semiauto shotgun? There is a difference in classification of High capacity: >10 for rifle and >5 for shotgun, but this has nothing to do with AWB.

Going back to rifles, an AR has a pistol grip and is capable of accepting a detachable magazine. But these two things do not make it AW. I believe, it has to have two or more "evil" features IN ADDITION to detachable magazine to be AW. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Is this different for a semiauto shotgun? If not, then we can possess in MA a Saiga-12 with pistol grip and a high capacity (>5) magazine.

Also, since AWB bans mags with capacity above 10, we can have a Saiga-12 with pistol grip and 10rd magazine.
 
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Yes, JackO, it's different for shotguns and rifles. With rifles, the detachable mag is a prerequisite feature, not one of the 'evil features'. With shotguns, the only prerequisite is semi-auto, and the detachable mag is included in the 'evil features'.
 
Thanks a lot for your explanation.

So I conclude, we in MA can't have a Saiga-12 with a pistol grip.
What about magazine capacity? Can we have a non converted Saiga-12 with a 10 rd mag?
 
I would respectfully disagree on this point. AWB sets the limit of 10rd magazine, not a "high capacity" magazine. So any Saiga-12 10rd magazine, pre- or post-ban would be legal.

Sorry, nope.

C 140 S 131M: "No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994."

C 140 S 121: "'Large capacity feeding device',
(i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells"
 
I almost bought a Saiga-12 today but only want it if I can have 10 round mags. I hate this state. I guess it isn't worth it without the 10 round mags.
 
Yes, Big Joe, you are right. The 870 is not an assault weapon because it's pump action. Has to be semi-auto to qualify as an assault weapon. And the 1100 is an assault weapon if it has the pistol grip and 7/9 shot fixed magazine. But I believe it is easy to plug the magazines to limit them to 5 shots.
 
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Thumbhole Stock

Anyone have the answer to the legality of that thumbhole stock I posted earlier? Does it count as a PG?
 
Thumbhole stocks have generally been considered to be a variant of a pistol grip. There are some exceptions, such as the FS2000 and PS90 where the thumbhole is integrated into the body of the firearm such that there is no protruding grip.

So, in general, yes, someone could prosecute you for having a pistol grip if you use that thumbhole stock. Whether they'd be successful, that's a chance you may or may not want to take.
 
Ok I'm confused. I have read the law.

Is an 8 round tubular magazine attached to a pump shotgun legal or illegal. By definition it's not an assault weapon because it is a pump action. However, the law still defines the magazine as a large capacity feeding device even though it is fixed because it hold more than 5 shot shells. the other part of the law says a large capacity feeding device to be legal must have been possessed before 1994 to be legal. so is a brand new mossberg 500 SPS pump shotgun with an 8 round tubular mag legal or illegal? Sounds like a large capacity feeding device ( tubular fixed shotgun mag of greater than 5 rounds) is illegal even on a pump shotgun if it's post 94. Am I missing something?

Someone please explain.

C 140 S 131M: "No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994."

C 140 S 121: "'Large capacity feeding device',
(i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells"
 
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A pump action shotgun is not defined as a "Large capacity weapon", due to it's specific exclusion from the definition because it "operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action". I see what your saying, that if you follow the definition of a "Large capacity feeding device" literally, you would end up with a non-large capacity weapon that has a fixed large capacity feeding device. It is one of the many inconsistencies and circular definitions contained within § 121. It is, however, a pretty untenable interpretation of the law to claim that a non-large capacity weapon could contain as one of it's parts a large capacity feeding device. Therefore, the only reasonable interpretation is that the fixed feeding device in this case is not legally large capacity.

Good question, it's definitely not a straightforward situation. Rep points for you for catching that.
 
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So, if I have this correct, one could possess a pump action shotgun with as many "evil" features (pistol grip, folding stock, large capacity, etc) no matter the manufacture date because it is NOT semi-automatic.

I'm trying to clarify how I can modify my Mossy 500 to stay within the law.
 
A pump action shotgun is not defined as a "Large capacity weapon", due to it's specific exclusion from the definition because it "operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action". I see what your saying, that if you follow the definition of a "Large capacity feeding device" literally, you would end up with a non-large capacity weapon that has a fixed large capacity feeding device. It is one of the many inconsistencies and circular definitions contained within § 121. It is, however, a pretty untenable interpretation of the law to claim that a non-large capacity weapon could contain as one of it's parts a large capacity feeding device. Therefore, the only reasonable interpretation is that the fixed feeding device in this case is not legally large capacity.

Good question, it's definitely not a straightforward situation. Rep points for you for catching that.

Yup. Get a pump action and you don't have to deal with all the ancillary bullshit.
 
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