Shotgun ammo - Is there really any difference between brands

[Rockrivr1]

When shooting trap I basically use whatever ammo I found a deal on. Lately is been cheap Wallymart Winchester in bulk box. I've also used Federal, Estate, etc and I just don't see the difference. Then again, I'm just a rank amateur still looking for his perfect 25. Have been close with a 24, but the miss was totally on me and not the ammo.

So the question is, if the velocity and shot size is the same, is there really any difference between brands? If so, what is it?

 

[smokey-seven]

Consistancy is the answer.

That elusive 25 can be due to shooting one brand that was a little faster or slower than the last box.

Leads need to be the same day yo day for (multiple) perfect rounds.

50FPS difference per ammo will teach you different leads when you miss by a bit.

 

[mac1911]

Consistancy is the answer.

That elusive 25 can be due to shooting one brand that was a little faster or slower than the last box.

Leads need to be the same day yo day for (multiple) perfect rounds.

50FPS difference per ammo will teach you different leads when you miss by a bit.

run some target ammo over a crony and tell me what you see......

 

[RDG]

I’m in the same boat as you Rockrivr.... I shoot whatever brand shells I can find on-sale

They all prove the same thing... I suck.

But for shooting clays, I mostly just there to have fun and get a little better for bird season.
I do pattern the loads I use for bird hunting though and stick to the same shell.

 

[whacko]

When shooting trap I basically use whatever ammo I found a deal on. Lately is been cheap Wallymart Winchester in bulk box. I've also used Federal, Estate, etc and I just don't see the difference. Then again, I'm just a rank amateur still looking for his perfect 25. Have been close with a 24, but the miss was totally on me and not the ammo.

So the question is, if the velocity and shot size is the same, is there really any difference between brands? If so, what is it?

Brand is only better or worse with respect to how it patterns in your gun

 

[mac1911]

When shooting trap I basically use whatever ammo I found a deal on. Lately is been cheap Wallymart Winchester in bulk box. I've also used Federal, Estate, etc and I just don't see the difference. Then again, I'm just a rank amateur still looking for his perfect 25. Have been close with a 24, but the miss was totally on me and not the ammo.

So the question is, if the velocity and shot size is the same, is there really any difference between brands? If so, what is it?

if you want to see the difference cut open a few shells ,,,,,,I can save you some time. The shot is not very consistent in size. heck break open some 7 1/2s and 8s side by side. you be lucky to tell the difference.
as long as your not going from extremes of low and high velocity you should be fine with any ammo really.
My first 25s came with some powderpuff loads of 7/8oz shot at published data of about 950fps.
The steps you need to take is to see where you consistently miss shots ir Station and target presentation.
If your missing the last shot a lot , that's generally all on you.

I see lots of shooters miss #3 straightaway. I found eliminating anything remotely described as hard, tough , I always miss or I hate "station 5 right angle targets" helps a lot. Just get up there and let your eyes lead you to the target and don't come out of the gun.

 

[mac1911]

I’m in the same boat as you Rockrivr.... I shoot whatever brand shells I can find on-sale

They all prove the same thing... I suck.

But for shooting clays, I mostly just there to have fun and get a little better for bird season.
I do pattern the loads I use for bird hunting though and stick to the same shell.

patterning is a little funny in the short order all it does is see if your choke is remotely doing its job for dispersion and can show shot pattern vs where your looking. It wont show you the shot string or the holes in your football shaped pattern

 

[enbloc]

Yep. As said above, patterning varies wildly between shotty brands and loads. It is similar to picking out the perfect .22 round for YOUR gun.
A serious shotgunner wants to know where his patterning will be with any ammo that he is going to use for hunting or Personal Defense.
Anything less is just "plinking"...

I am a firm believer that "shooters" can be broken down into two groups.
Marksmen, and guys who just like to hear metal machines make big noise...

~Matt

 

[MAGA99]

I am a firm believer that "shooters" can be broken down into two groups.
Marksmen, and guys who just like to hear metal machines make big noise...

~Matt

What if I’m a little bit of both? With a strong bias towards making loud noises for shits and giggles

 

[enbloc]

Then you are welcome here, and we should go shooting sometime!

 

[Rockrivr1]

What if I’m a little bit of both? With a strong bias towards making loud noises for shits and giggles

HA! I remember when I first started shooting I was just interested in how fast I could mag dump and just keep all shots on the target somewhere. Sure it was fun, but didn't learn anything. Now I'm more interested in getting smaller groups and hitting my targets. Love reactive targets and why I like trap as it stretches my ability. Haven't tried Skeet yet, but one day I can see it happening.

 

[enbloc]

I often try to imagine what the original colonists must have thought about "plinking".
I'm sure even children would get a cuff on the backside of their tri-corn if they tried wasting powder and ball...

 

[whacko]

HA! I remember when I first started shooting I was just interested in how fast I could mag dump and just keep all shots on the target somewhere. Sure it was fun, but didn't learn anything. Now I'm more interested in getting smaller groups and hitting my targets. Love reactive targets and why I like trap as it stretches my ability. Haven't tried Skeet yet, but one day I can see it happening.

Sporting clays. When a shotgunner gets good at sporting clays they have "arrived". Totally addictive.

 

[greencobra]

when i shot trap competitively, particularly at 16 yds, ammo really didn't mean a thing. i used light 7 1/2's and it didn't matter what brand. ya gotta spend the time and practice, practice, practice. and seeing the clay.

at 27 yds i used heavy 7 1/2's, usually federal gold medals or win AA. don't know if they even make either anymore. and the hundreds of rounds a week practice...light 7 1/2 reloads. i never patterned my trap gun, used the same gun for 16 years. i spent thousands of hours at home mounting my shotgun over and over developing muscle memory.

the miss was totally on me and not the ammo

most misses are the shooter. you know what, most people will tell you when they were getting close to that first 25, when they knew they had a chance, they got cautious and started thinking and over compensated gun movement. once you break that 25 ice, the other milestones are easier.

I see lots of shooters miss #3 straightaway.

it's not the gun or the load, guaranteed the shooter stopped the gun when they saw the target and shot under it.

if someone is capable of consistent 23's or 24's, it's not the ammo preventing that elusive 25. sometimes it's a head game. i remember my first 25, 50, 100 & 200 like it was yesterday, i can tell you where i was and who i was with because it is a head game and i was shitting myself when i knew i was doing it.

Marksmen, and guys who just like to hear metal machines make big noise...

i almost agree. there are "natural" shooters who seem to win or place every time out, they hardly ever practice. there are serious shooters who constantly need to practice to succeed. i'm one of those. and folks who i call sunday club shoots who shoot the occasional 22-23 and think they're not capable of any better and settle there. for those that shoot ata, think lewis shooters.

some of the most successful trap shooters i've seen were superb wing shots out in the field. they knew how to keep the gun moving on extreme angles.

oh, let me say before i'm done, i've seen a lot of people drop targets cause 1. they took a late pull 2. their gun mount was wrong and instead if putting the gun down to remount, they called for the target anyway and 3. stopped the gun on extreme angles instead of swinging thru 'em.

again i apologize, a long winded post but someone might get something out of it. just my opinions and thoughts and others may vary.

 

[enbloc]

i almost agree.

I'll take it.

I should clarify my marksmen vs. noise-maker comment. We all have varying degrees of both throughout our progression as "shooters"
But what I don't get is when I show up at the range and there is someone shooting into the dirt berm. No target, not even a broken clay pigeon or old shotgun shell to aim at. Just dirt.
And they are not taking their time, just "blam, blam, blam, blam". They don't even appear to be testing for rapid-fire. Only rapid-noise.
Now be it far from me to tell anyone "how" to shoot THEIR GUN, THEIR AMMO, THEIR MONEY, THEIR TIME. I just don't get it...

 

[greencobra]

I'll take it.

I should clarify my marksmen vs. noise-maker comment. We all have varying degrees of both throughout our progression as "shooters"
But what I don't get is when I show up at the range and there is someone shooting into the dirt berm. No target, not even a broken clay pigeon or old shotgun shell to aim at. Just dirt.
And they are not taking their time, just "blam, blam, blam, blam". They don't even appear to be testing for rapid-fire. Only rapid-noise.
Now be it far from me to tell anyone "how" to shoot THEIR GUN, THEIR AMMO, THEIR MONEY, THEIR TIME. I just don't get it...

lol, I've seen that also...many, many times. I dunno, bud, I shake my head, too.

and a lot of people won't speak up thinking the same as you. now, i'm old and cranky. I just walk over and say what the hell are you doing when I see someone pounding a berm. not to be the range police, but i'm really curious. I think they are "patterning." lol

 

[enbloc]

With an AR????

 

[greencobra]

With an AR????

oh shit! I thought we talking shotguns and shotgun ammo. my bad. going for a nap now, sorry.

 

[Bonesinium]

As for the original question, not really. The difference between ammo type becomes noticeable in other games when shooting semi autos. Trap? Not so much.

 

[Mountain]

Yep. As said above, patterning varies wildly between shotty brands and loads. It is similar to picking out the perfect .22 round for YOUR gun.
A serious shotgunner wants to know where his patterning will be with any ammo that he is going to use for hunting or Personal Defense.
Anything less is just "plinking"...

I am a firm believer that "shooters" can be broken down into two groups.
Marksmen, and guys who just like to hear metal machines make big noise...

~Matt

Rifles and pistols, I try to be a marksman. Shotguns? Occasionally I'll shoot clays but only to stay fresh enough to pop some tasty birds. We'll see how well I eat this season, LOL.

 

[radioman]

I’m another guy who shoots what’s on sale.
I’m not very good so I’m not a good example.
I shoot trap for fun not to compete.
What’s is on sale makes me happy twice.
When I get a deal on it and when it goes bang!
If the clay brakes I get a third bonus thrill up my leg.

 

[enbloc]

oh shit! I thought we talking shotguns and shotgun ammo. my bad. going for a nap now, sorry.

We were talking shotties. I was trying to be funny about a guy mag-dumping his AR and trying to "pattern" it...

 

[gunofthrones]

They are different in shooting patterns.

But if you only shoot 5 feet away, there is no difference.

 

[greencobra]

We were talking shotties. I was trying to be funny about a guy mag-dumping his AR and trying to "pattern" it...

ya killin' me....little bits at a time.

 

[Eric H]

At the low end of the scale in regards to shotgun shells such as the bulk "Universal" 100 packs of Winchester, Federal, Estate, Herters, and other routinely sub $5.50-$6.50/box shells you find at Walmart, Cabela's, etc. I find very little difference when shooting at the 16 yard line in Trap, with all things being the same other than manufacturer of components. I find them all equally unconsistent, if that makes sense. They all utilize hulls that are easily deformed, many use inconsistently sized steel case heads that may cause function issues in certain guns, softer lead shot, cheaper/softer wads, and much lower quality control in regards to materials and packaging. A lot of shotgun sports are a head game too and I try to stick with the same shell/load (just makes me feel better and lets me know if I missed it's my own fault), so I'll buy whatever is on sale and as much as I can swing that moment. But when there's over a 50 fps or so delta in shot velocity, if you're a regular and consistent shooter, you can tell the difference past 16 yard singles in regards to your target lead. However unconsistent the cheap shells are, most beginning shooters just aren't going to take advantage of higher quality shells and see a huge improvement in their shooting when their fundamentals are still becoming imbedded.

For a long time I was shooting the $4.73/box Federal Field/Dove/Game Loads 7.5 1 oz @~1300 fps from Walmart because I was able to fill most of a shopping cart full and stock back up every few weeks for a short while. When I ran out I dipped into my reserve of Remington Gun Club 7.5 1 1/8 oz @~1145 fps and it was immediately apparent how different they were in regards to my target lead and perceived recoil. However they still slayed clays...

When it comes down to it, just get out there and shoot and sharpen your skills.

If you're a casual clay shooter at the 16 yard line and occasionally shoot 'caps, buy whatevers cheap and on sale and run it. I've done VERY well for me at the 27 yard line with cheap shells. Once you feel like you're losing targets because of your choice of shell, and you just can't figure out why you missed a few birds when you're very consistent in all other matters, and you're possibly competing, it's time to change to a more consistent/higher quality shell. Most serious shotgunners at that point will reload their own, many use Remington STS/Nitro 27 hulls, Remington Primer, hardened/chilled shot, etc, or the equivalent in old style Winchester AA hulls, where they have skin in the game in exactly how consistent their loads are. Many can take advantage of this quality of shell, and many still drop targets. Consistency is the name of the game in all matters of shooting when it comes down to improving past a certain point.

Do I shoot a super high quality shells? No. I don't feel the need to for most of the shooting I do, as it's all informal and it's always a good time. When I'm at the club shooting 27 yards, or playing Slide or Protection, it's likely I'll dip into my stash of STS's or AA's because my competitive ego kicks in more and don't mind kicking a little more dough.

 

[mac1911]

I can relay what a old timer did for me.
This guy came down a few times a year with his old little H&R 158 in .410 gauge . I only seen him not run 25 straight once in over 8 years.
I was missing a few birds here and there and at a point I was either missing them or smoking them. He taped a piece of a shell box to block the view of my barrel and made me shoot several rounds like that. Would you know I started getting weak hits vs misses.... most where on the exteme left and right presentations and for what ever reason right target on station 3 was a bugger for me.
The next lesson he gave me was when I asked about ammo.
He said come back in a few weeks with at least 6 different ammo types and velocities.... the difference between 1100fps stuff and 1300fps is not enough down range IMHO to matter. Although I did not spend a lot of time shooting 25 yard line I scored my best scores with 1100fps 1oz loads and a full choke.
Its all fun.
Make sure your gun is shooting where you look.
I do it like I was taught for hunting butt,belly,beak,BANG

 

[MisterHappy]

The way I see it, many of the better shooters use the more-pricey shells. And, shoot the more pricey guns.

This may make a difference at their level. At mine, free random ammo out of a beater shottie works just fine.

I once made up some shotshells out of more-or-less random components (Yes, I know, "Don't try this at home") that were the b@lls. Smoked the targets. No recoil. But, they gave me confidence in my equipment. Then I used them up.

The way I see it, if you spend half the price for the ammo, you can shoot twice as many rounds (more or less, I know that you have to pay for the birds). You'll get better.

Shotgun sports are not precision games - it's not like a harder hit gives you more points than a chip. A round of Trap is not decided by the number of Xs you shot.

Find a gun that fits you.
Find ammo that makes the gun function, reliably.
With all the variables related to a Trap round, or even an individual bird....the ammo is likely not the most important. Stance. Mount. Focus. Light level. Wind. Focus. Swing. Follow through. Excuses. That's all more important than what shell you use.

The only real reason I see for getting the premium shells, is that the hulls are more reloadable. But with what components go for, these days, when you factor in your time at the press.....Estate or whatever else is on sale is the way to go.

Now.....if you KNOW that the top-of-the-line ammo is what you need to run them....then the cheap stuff will put rats in your brain.

 

[enbloc]

ya killin' me....little bits at a time.

Hey. It beats all at once! AmIright?

 

[Rockrivr1]

Find a gun that fits you.

I'm thinking I just did this past weekend. With Holliston Firearms going out of business I made an offer on a nice Browning Citori CX that I had been eyeing for a while. Browning is also having a $100 rebate on over unders so the price is too good to pass up for something I've been wanting for a while.

Though I have to say that I've been shooting trap with a Mossberg Silver Reserve II that I have replaced the firing pins and added a Fiber optic site to replace the bead on the rib. They get a bad rap, but this one has been shooting well for me. Once I get the Browning I not sure if I'll sell the Mossberg or keep it as a back up gun.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Years ago, I was on. . . . . it might have been early GT or late newsgroups. It was that long ago. . . . . .

Anyhow, some guy was a SERIOUS shotgun guy. Trained in shotgun defense ALL. THE. TIME.

So he went through a TON of shotgun ammo.

After many thousands of rounds, he found a lot # of some Estate 00Buck that was very consistent in velocity and pattern and was pretty low recoil.

I grabbed a case. Back when you could grab ammo just about anywhere on the inter webs. Natchez or Midway, probably.

I probably still have most of it. LOL. I don't train a ton with shotgun. Heck, I don't train a ton on anything anymore!

Would I really notice the difference between this and some other ammo? I'm not sure. I can notice the difference between Win Featherweights and Rem target loads. I've never had a problem hitting a target that wasn't my own fault so I'd have to say that patterning is, at my skill level, not a significant issue.