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Shotgun, 12ga or 20ga?

kalash said:
Agreed - I can't stand crossbolt safeties and never use them. We were forced to use them during Appleseed and it sucked. Safety location is one of the reasons I got a 500 instead of an 870, along with it having a far superior shell lifter design that stays up and makes loading much easier. Plus my 500 cost me $230 and I never have to deal with Remington's garbage customer service or recent quality hickups.
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garandman said:
Not all Remingtons are created equal. How about an 80's Police when they were built on their own line?
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kalash said:
I've heard great things about the older Remingtons, yes. Still no Mossberg, imo, because of some of the things I mentioned previously.
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Police 870s, Wingmasters and Express guns all use the same safety so buying an older one (which I always suggest) won't fix the safety issue. Personally though I never care too much about the safety on any gun unless it's a decocker. I hate decockers and I won't buy a gun with a decocker ever again.

The only safeties I've actually liked and appreciated on guns are the standard AK safety, the Lee Enfield safety and the safety on my Browning Hi Power. Crossbolt safeties are neither here nor there for me.
 
following this thread as 11 yr old son just got back from shooting sports day at Camp Norse and is pestering me for shotguns. Wife is also interested in trap, as am I to an extent.

it seems like 12ga light loads are available for the wife and kids. True? Also.. no love for the Benelli Nova or Weatherby PA-08? Seem to be in the affordable range as well.

I did the ammo buy for the day, and got 250 rds of steel shot 20ga 2.75" (7shot) for $65, 100 rds of .410 for $60, and 500rds of Thunderbolt .22 for $35 all at Cabelas. Steel shot was much more pricey than lead.
 
EMTDAD said:
following this thread as 11 yr old son just got back from shooting sports day at Camp Norse and is pestering me for shotguns. Wife is also interested in trap, as am I to an extent.

it seems like 12ga light loads are available for the wife and kids. True? Also.. no love for the Benelli Nova or Weatherby PA-08? Seem to be in the affordable range as well.

I did the ammo buy for the day, and got 250 rds of steel shot 20ga 2.75" (7shot) for $65, 100 rds of .410 for $60, and 500rds of Thunderbolt .22 for $35 all at Cabelas. Steel shot was much more pricey than lead.
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Yes, steel is more expensive than lead. Once you vary from Remington or Mossberg shotguns, you're going to loose the advantage of the huge aftermarket and barrel options of Remington and Mossberg shotguns. They've been making the 870 and the 1100 since the 1950s and the guns were thought of during WW2.

The only light loads I know about are reduced recoil 00 buckshot loads. There probably are reduced recoil birdshot loads - check gunbot.net
 
EMTDAD said:
following this thread as 11 yr old son just got back from shooting sports day at Camp Norse and is pestering me for shotguns. Wife is also interested in trap, as am I to an extent.

it seems like 12ga light loads are available for the wife and kids. True? Also.. no love for the Benelli Nova or Weatherby PA-08? Seem to be in the affordable range as well.

I did the ammo buy for the day, and got 250 rds of steel shot 20ga 2.75" (7shot) for $65, 100 rds of .410 for $60, and 500rds of Thunderbolt .22 for $35 all at Cabelas. Steel shot was much more pricey than lead.
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I brought a ~110lbs female friend to shoot skeet once with my 12ga and she complained about recoil. A much bigger complaint was the weight of the gun, especially with it being somewhat far out with the long 28" barrel - she literally couldn't finish one full round of skeet. So consider a shorter, lighter 20ga.
 
I was able to get a used maverick 88 with a bird barrel and a rifled barrel for less than 200 bucks on gunbroker in 12 gauge. Hard to beat that deal.
 
EMTDAD said:
following this thread as 11 yr old son just got back from shooting sports day at Camp Norse and is pestering me for shotguns. Wife is also interested in trap, as am I to an extent.

it seems like 12ga light loads are available for the wife and kids. True? Also.. no love for the Benelli Nova or Weatherby PA-08? Seem to be in the affordable range as well.

I did the ammo buy for the day, and got 250 rds of steel shot 20ga 2.75" (7shot) for $65, 100 rds of .410 for $60, and 500rds of Thunderbolt .22 for $35 all at Cabelas. Steel shot was much more pricey than lead.
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Yeah, I didn't suggest the Browning BPS either, but thats more of a budget and aftermarket availability thing than what I think of the gun itself. (I would get a BPS but I have an O/Un for trap and don't have any immediate need for another shotgun)

Just a note, you mentioned trap and then said you got some 7 shot shells, at many ranges (And ATA rules I think) the maximum shot size is 7 1/2 so 7 would be too big.

If you are looking to have an 11 year old son, your wife, and yourself all using the same shotgun occasionally you might want to do some researching into what can be done to get the most adjustable stock and specifically related to length of pull. I am making a wild guess and assuming the three of you don't share the same size body.

When looking for an adjustable stock or stock options, this is one of the places that the aftermarket component pool of something like the 870 would work in your favor.

kalash said:
I brought a ~110lbs female friend to shoot skeet once with my 12ga and she complained about recoil. A much bigger complaint was the weight of the gun, especially with it being somewhat far out with the long 28" barrel - she literally couldn't finish one full round of skeet. So consider a shorter, lighter 20ga.
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This can bite a lot of people who try to find a magic solution for how a smaller person can shoot a shotgun. Shorter can be good, but lighter can come back to bite you. If you go down in drams and oz of shot loading than you can also achieve that "lower recoil"

Something like these shells, I have seen someone shoot it without even having their shoulder against the butt and the gun won't move much at all. (Granted this was someone who is used to shooting regular 12 ga and has a heavy trap gun that will have much less felt recoil).

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900197404/winchester-aa-low-recoil-target-ammunition-12-gauge-2-3-4-7-8-oz-8-shot

There are two lengths you are dealing with.

One is from the butt to the trigger (length of pull) which an adjustable or youth stock will help address.

The next as you pointed out is barrel length, but it is almost more a factor of balance of the gun than the exact barrel length.
 
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boiler_eng said:
Yeah, I didn't suggest the Browning BPS either, but thats more of a budget and aftermarket availability thing than what I think of the gun itself. (I would get a BPS but I have an O/Un for trap and don't have any immediate need for another shotgun)

Just a note, you mentioned trap and then said you got some 7 shot shells, at many ranges (And ATA rules I think) the maximum shot size is 7 1/2 so 7 would be too big.

If you are looking to have an 11 year old son, your wife, and yourself all using the same shotgun occasionally you might want to do some researching into what can be done to get the most adjustable stock and specifically related to length of pull. I am making a wild guess and assuming the three of you don't share the same size body.

When looking for an adjustable stock or stock options, this is one of the places that the aftermarket component pool of something like the 870 would work in your favor.
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thanks for the advice.. as expected, there's really not going to be a one gun for all of us.. probably 2 would be more realistic. Son is almost same height as wife now, so a 20 for them and a 12 for me might be the way we go.

as for the shot size.. I was just picking up what I was told.. shot size wasn't specified.. and 20ga (even moreso .410) selection was limited. It wasn't competition, just a fun scout day.
 
Benelli Supernova is a really nice pump gun. A little more $$ but still affordable. Only real negative was pointed out- more limited aftermarket and what aftermarket exists is pricey. Benelli parts are insanely expensive. Replacement barrels cost almost as much as the gun.
 
I'm an average size woman and I have a Mossberg 500 20ga. I bought it as a home defense gun and have only shot slugs and buckshot out of it. I'm very happy with it. I don't particularly like recoil, this gun is just fun to shoot - it isn't bad at all. But in a close quarters situation it would probably be just fine.

I haven't had any trouble finding ammo at Walmart and Dick's. Since I don't shoot it regularly I don't need to keep a huge amount on hand and the price hasn't been an issue.
 
tk421991 said:
Police 870s, Wingmasters and Express guns all use the same safety so buying an older one (which I always suggest) won't fix the safety issue. Personally though I never care too much about the safety on any gun unless it's a decocker. I hate decockers and I won't buy a gun with a decocker ever again.//
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The 870 safety blows for lefties.

The remedies - a left-handed trigger assembly or a lefty version - aren't much better. Putting a left trigger assembly with a safety that works the exact opposite of every other 870 strikes me as a really bad idea.
 
I have not seen it mentioned yet but for those that are recoil shy, an auto has a little less recoil than a pump or break open type shotgun. Then of course there is porting that also reduces it. However both options are not found to my knowledge in a lower budget gun.

Also if one stays away from express or high velocity field loads and works with target loads the recoil is also reduced somewhat.
 
For the original question, 12 Ga is more widely available. For a beginning shotgun, 870's are pretty good and have many variations. Shotguns are all pretty similar weather 12 or 20. The difference is the payload. Some can make up for it by having the capabilities of using varying length shells (ie, more shot or longer, heavier slugs). All of them do about 1400 fps give or take. As a side note, the gauge is determined by how many lead balls that have a circumference of the barrels bore diameter it takes to equal a pound.

I have a couple 870 combos in 12 & 20 plus an O/U with 2 sets of barrels in 12 and 20. The combo's give you a longer smooth bore, bead sight with the rem choke system. The other barrel is rifled with rifle sights. It pretty much covers all your needs by way of shotguns. The 12 is a super mag and the 20 is a mag. The super mag can use 2.75, 3 and 3.5 inch shells. The mag can use 2.75 and 3 inch shells. Other barrels are available and all 870 barrels will fit within their respective gauges. I bought a couple extra ones for specific uses on the 12. One is a short smooth bore magnum (2.75 & 3") with rifle sights and choked (not the rem system) to modified. That's what I keep on it with a stack of 3" 00 shells. The other is the same except with the rem choke system.

I've others like coach guns, a sweet sixteen, more expensive O/U's and SxS's but any of these are good starter ones plus you won't well up a tear in the field if you slip and it goes kerplunk in a bog or scrape it up in thorns tracking some game:

.
 
With all the 12 vs 20gauge talk, and getting both being a possibility, keep in mind that you need to keep the ammo very separate! A 20 gauge shell can be chambered into a 12 gauge, stick in the barrel, and then a 12 can be chambered behind it. Bad things happen if the gun goes bang. Just a friendly reminder!!
 
xjma99 said:
With all the 12 vs 20gauge talk, and getting both being a possibility, keep in mind that you need to keep the ammo very separate! A 20 gauge shell can be chambered into a 12 gauge, stick in the barrel, and then a 12 can be chambered behind it. Bad things happen if the gun goes bang. Just a friendly reminder!!
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The "20ga kaboom" situation is always one of the questions on the NH hunter education test, both online and the classroom exam.
ammo_warning.jpg
bore_size_shotgun_gauge.jpg
 
Passed hunters ed back when I was 14 (wow, more than 20 years ago) and they harped on it for sure. Just wanted to make sure everyone was aware as I'm sure not everyone has done hunters ed! Hopefully preaching to the choir.
 
xjma99 said:
Passed hunters ed back when I was 14 (wow, more than 20 years ago) and they harped on it for sure. Just wanted to make sure everyone was aware as I'm sure not everyone has done hunters ed! Hopefully preaching to the choir.
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I agree, it's worth mentioning, is probably the easiest error to make when you have two different gauge shotguns in use.

What happens if you drop a 28ga into a 12ga chamber and then load a 12ga round?
 
Kevin_NH said:
I agree, it's worth mentioning, is probably the easiest error to make when you have two different gauge shotguns in use.

What happens if you drop a 28ga into a 12ga chamber and then load a 12ga round?
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Might make it all the way though, or get stuck in the choke or bore, depending on the actual dimensions. Max diameter of the 28 is .687.

A full choke 12 is ~.690"

Don't do it. Or, make sure the video is running.
 
Kevin_NH said:
I agree, it's worth mentioning, is probably the easiest error to make when you have two different gauge shotguns in use.

What happens if you drop a 28ga into a 12ga chamber and then load a 12ga round?
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It takes a special kind of stupid to blow up a gun in this manner.

But I guess if your careless enough to drop a 20GA shell in a 12GA gun only to see it disappear into the forcing cone of the barrel and then not care about accounting for that shell, then you are stupid enough to follow it up with a 12GA shell.

What is more likely to blow up a gun is an unnoticed case head separation in a semi auto shotgun.

You load a shell (typically a paper hull, or paper base wad type hull) and when fired the hull body separates from the head and travels part way down the barrel. The case head is ejected and a new shell chambers, the next trigger pull is seldom pretty.
 

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