Mass-diver
NES Member
Gorgeous rifles, thanks for sharing.
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Shot an m1a today... M1A vs Scar? What would you save up for?
- Thread starter Queen Bee
- Start date
Gorgeous rifles, thanks for sharing.
Being incredibly biased... An M14. If you find a pre-ban then you have the option of adding a folding/collapsible stock. They can also be made very accurate with some minor tweaking.
BTW... I'm biased...
see those wood and steel guns just look so much better.......nice!
Sweeney
NES Member
Yes, all three wood stocks are USGI birch. It's an SEI forged receiver with SEI barrel,op rod and gas system. TRW bolt and NOS SA trigger group. The flash suppressor is USGI with a modified NM ream by Brookfield Precision Tool. I unitized and modified the gas cylinder to M25 specs. I even used THE M25 jig for this operation as it was offered to me by Mr BPT.
They're all sporing 'dummy' selectors to fill the voids in the stocks and to look proper.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Sweeney
NES Member
I lightened this a bit by removing most of the bottom rail and trimming the top. The greatest benefit from removing the bottom rail is how the rife sits lower in the hand... closer to 'stock'. I got it cheap so I figured 'what the hell'... I'll toss it in the Bridgeport. It's still a work in progress.
Hey, after shooting the 1874 Sharps it feels like a feather
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
A sage would be nice but not at the current cost.
I might make one into an E2 though... old school tacticool...
Nice AR10 you built! Just not my cup o' tea.
Sweeney
NES Member
Tony makes some beautiful stocks. I'm the same. I like my old battle rifles. It took some time for me to by my ARs and complete that end of my collections... they've got no soul...
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
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i hear ya.
nowadays everything is made everywhere. things are rarely "american" or "not american" anymore. sounds cheesy but global economy.
both SCAR heavy and M1A are amazing. I own neither but hope to eventually add both to my gun family.
I like the SCAR minus the weight but it's badass for sure. Drums !!!
xtry51
NES Member
I have an M1A and it's the nicest firearm I own. I love everything about that rifle.
If you love iron sights and military guns, buy the M1A. If you want a .308 with more capacity, better accuracy (without going price completely out the window) and like using scopes build an AR10. As a battlefield tool the AR10 is superior. As a thing of beauty, the M1A is hard to rival.
If you love iron sights and military guns, buy the M1A. If you want a .308 with more capacity, better accuracy (without going price completely out the window) and like using scopes build an AR10. As a battlefield tool the AR10 is superior. As a thing of beauty, the M1A is hard to rival.
dcmdon
NES Member
I've at some point in time owned an M1A, a SCAR 17 and an AR10 that I built out of Mega receivers with a Lilja barrel.
They are all completely different beasts.
The M1A is nostalgia with a punch. I don't hang crap off my rifles so the lack of rail space means nothing to me. Recoil is more than moderate. Enough where I'd worry with recoil shy shooters. Its harder and more expensive to make accurate than an AR or scar. A 1 MOA M1A requires all kinds of Voodoo including stock betting. With an AR, a decent barrel and trigger will get you to 1 MOA.
The AR10 is a tack driver for less than the cost of a scar. The Lilja barrel (of benchrest fame) is the key here. I didn't scrimp on the barrel. I'm still developing handloads for it, but I was able to average less than 1" with Winchester White Box and a 4x scope at 100 yards. I have high expectations. With a BIG Lund Titan muzzle brake, this thing is a pussycat to shoot. I could shoot it all day.
The scar is a completely irrational purchase. Its less accurate than a less expensive AR, but its a SCAR for Gods sake. Out of the box, it comes with a terrible trigger. So you might as well figure in $250 for a Timney or $300 for a Geissele trigger right off the bat. It is far far more accurate than it has a right to be. Skinny barrel, piston system, mil spec sloppy chamber - all work against it. I didn't have much chance to really try to wring it out, but I was able to get 1.25" groups at 100 with Win White box and the same 4x scope I used on the AR. Recoil is a bit more than the AR, but that's a function of the brake more than anything. It comes stock with a PWS brake that is pretty effective, but no comparison to the Lund on my AR. Of course, there is no reason you couldn't put a Lund on the SCAR.
Oh one other thing. Pre-ban mags are readily available for the M1A. You can modify pre-ban FAL mags to work in the SCAR 17. Pre-bans are pretty rare for the DPMS style AR in .308.
Of the 3, the AR is my favorite. Probably because I built this from scratch exactly how I like it. To MA folks, don't let the lack of available high caps dissuade you. It doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I prefer the 10 round magpul mags for the AR. It lets me get my arm directly under the forend for more accurate off hand shooting.
They are all completely different beasts.
The M1A is nostalgia with a punch. I don't hang crap off my rifles so the lack of rail space means nothing to me. Recoil is more than moderate. Enough where I'd worry with recoil shy shooters. Its harder and more expensive to make accurate than an AR or scar. A 1 MOA M1A requires all kinds of Voodoo including stock betting. With an AR, a decent barrel and trigger will get you to 1 MOA.
The AR10 is a tack driver for less than the cost of a scar. The Lilja barrel (of benchrest fame) is the key here. I didn't scrimp on the barrel. I'm still developing handloads for it, but I was able to average less than 1" with Winchester White Box and a 4x scope at 100 yards. I have high expectations. With a BIG Lund Titan muzzle brake, this thing is a pussycat to shoot. I could shoot it all day.
The scar is a completely irrational purchase. Its less accurate than a less expensive AR, but its a SCAR for Gods sake. Out of the box, it comes with a terrible trigger. So you might as well figure in $250 for a Timney or $300 for a Geissele trigger right off the bat. It is far far more accurate than it has a right to be. Skinny barrel, piston system, mil spec sloppy chamber - all work against it. I didn't have much chance to really try to wring it out, but I was able to get 1.25" groups at 100 with Win White box and the same 4x scope I used on the AR. Recoil is a bit more than the AR, but that's a function of the brake more than anything. It comes stock with a PWS brake that is pretty effective, but no comparison to the Lund on my AR. Of course, there is no reason you couldn't put a Lund on the SCAR.
Oh one other thing. Pre-ban mags are readily available for the M1A. You can modify pre-ban FAL mags to work in the SCAR 17. Pre-bans are pretty rare for the DPMS style AR in .308.
Of the 3, the AR is my favorite. Probably because I built this from scratch exactly how I like it. To MA folks, don't let the lack of available high caps dissuade you. It doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I prefer the 10 round magpul mags for the AR. It lets me get my arm directly under the forend for more accurate off hand shooting.
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Instead of buying a Scar, i would by an M1A and slap on the Juggernaut M1Abull pup chassis. In the end it will end up costing u the same as a Scar, but u'll have the convenience of the magazines, and the compactness of bull pup.
AllaSnackbah
NES Member
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this, the weight added by the chassises, from what i have heard, is not worth the extra performance (if you even get any)
my buddy is going through this right now with his rifle he just put in a sage chassis, he hasn't given up on it yet but first impressions are its not worth it. cool video for those interested.
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Ha QB, I hope you didn't fire Charlie's M1A. If so, the decision has already been made for you as everyone that's shot it so far has gone out and bought one. I ended up with the Scout Squad version, but I must say I'm not a big fan of the M1A platform. As a lefty, the damn bolt keeps hitting my thumb if I don't pay attention when shooting it. If I were to do it again, I'd probably go with an AR10.
-Cuz.
-Cuz.
dcmdon
NES Member
I got a chance to shoot one at a show. Because your cheek is on the chamber, it gets pretty warm pretty quickly. This is the same with any bullpup, but the RFB shoots a bigger cartridge that heats up the barrel faster than most other bullpups.
Of course the cool thing is you can have the external ballistics of a gun with a 24" barrel with the length of a 16" gun.
If the RFB was built to something more than an $1300 price point, it could be set up as an awesome long range rifle without all the bulk. And before anyone calls me out saying that its a $2000 rifle, thats a temporary market condition brought on by demand not keeping up with supply. At the wholesale level, the RFB is an 1100 gun and the SCAR is a $2500 gun
M60
NES Member
I had all three M1A's at the same time. The accuracy of both the National match and Super match was pretty much the same. The standard grade was close to as good in that it shot MOA all day.The National match and Super match were both sub MOA. I kept the National match. They all favored / favor Carlos Hathcock's preferred load. The Federal 168 gr. hollow point, boat tail match load. I can't comment on the other 308's that you speak of, but I will say that if it's not broke, I generally don't try to fix it. I would be interested in investigating any AR type .308 that shoots sub MOA regularly however.
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I will check out the AR 10's
But right now im still mostly looking at the m1a
Idk ive always been an AK style girl.
The m1a is very close to my chosen platform
Looked at AR 10 and could never see myself owning an AR.
But right now im still mostly looking at the m1a
Idk ive always been an AK style girl.
The m1a is very close to my chosen platform
Looked at AR 10 and could never see myself owning an AR.
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turbo38gn
NES Member
I might add, I too have an M1a ... Socom 16".... I have to agree with the Lady... what a great gun... as much fun to shoot as my AR's and AK's... Shooting cheap ammo is just a "blast". My vote goes to everyone should own at least one M1a... but I'd like to own more like Sully's family minus the Troy chassis.
ranger4-7
Army Veteran
Love all three of My M1A's
Standard Armscorp pre-ban M14
Springfield Armory Scout (swapped muzzle break for flash hider)
This is the GI synthetic stock that my Socom 16 now sits in (don't yet have a picture of the Socom. Swapped the scout back to walnut)
Hard to go wrong with this platform. I too love the AK, but the sights just don't do it for me anymore. I need a peep sight to help my old eyes focus.
Chris
Standard Armscorp pre-ban M14
Springfield Armory Scout (swapped muzzle break for flash hider)
This is the GI synthetic stock that my Socom 16 now sits in (don't yet have a picture of the Socom. Swapped the scout back to walnut)
Hard to go wrong with this platform. I too love the AK, but the sights just don't do it for me anymore. I need a peep sight to help my old eyes focus.
Chris
My 3rd gun was an M1A (after a Garand and an M1 Carbine). For me it was familiarity with the design. I love my M1A and you can get plenty of mags for it. Never a jam in almost 18 years. Shoots like a dream and with a scope they are real fun. But get a good mount however.
As mac1911 said, there is something about the feel of steel and wood. As for accuracy, I don't competition shoot with it so the difference between the two options is marginal for me as either rifle would shoot better than me.
Personally, I think every shooter should have an M1 and an M1A.
As mac1911 said, there is something about the feel of steel and wood. As for accuracy, I don't competition shoot with it so the difference between the two options is marginal for me as either rifle would shoot better than me.
Personally, I think every shooter should have an M1 and an M1A.
dcmdon
NES Member
ARs are stupid simple to make accurate. You need a good barrel. A bolt that is not terrible and a decent trigger. Because of the design of the rifle, there are none of the accuracy sapping inconsistencies that you need to fix by properly bedding a traditional firearm.
A friend of mine has a DPMS with a heavy bull barrel in 6.5 Creedmore that he claims shoots barely over an inch groups all day long at 200 yards. I don't doubt him. He's an experienced shooter with a lot of long range Elk hunting experience. He owns a sand pit that allows us to shoot at 400 yards.
The RRAs all are good for less than 1 moa, but then again RRA's are all pretty accurate for the money.
If you are interested in building, some top name companies now make AR10 match quality barrels. Because of the design of the AR, any idiot can install a barrel. They all will also either sell you a properly headspaced bolt with the barrel or fit your bolt to the barrel for a few bucks.
Don
PS Xcom - I'm not in any way disagreeing. I just got my 3rd M1 from the CMP last week. I actually like the M1 better than the M1A/M14.
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dcmdon
NES Member
One caution on the RRA. Their .308 is a bit "nonstandard". Google it and know what you are giving up before you buy. Its not a DPMS pattern gun and not quite an Armalite pattern gun.
What do you want to do with it? Do you want to shoot it off of a bench and get sub-MOA groups? Hunt with it? Carbine courses? Just plink with irons? Nothing in particular, just itching for a new gun?
Personally, I don't see any scenario where I'd buy a SCAR. Too much money, with no tangible thing you can point to and say "this is worth the extra $1000-1500 over a regular AR-10".
The SIG 716 DMRs are badass rifles, but I would never pay MSRP for one. I'd totally pay the employee discount price for one though (around $1400). That'd be my choice for an accurate (MOA) .308 gun that would work for bench shooting as well as a carbine course or general purpose money-to-noise conversion.
If you just want a plinker, get a FAL. Probably the cheapest .308 battle rifle if you're just going to use irons.
If you want a sub-MOA, consistent bench gun then just get a bolt gun like the Remington 700, or Savage 10 or 12. A bolt gun is going to be more accurate than a military style semi-auto.
I guess I don't really have a slot for the M1A. Probably the reason I don't own one (or a Garand, or an SKS). I just don't really enjoy shooting "traditional" style iron sight semi-autos like them. An EBR style M1A with optics would probably be in the same realm as the SIG716 DMR for me (but cost around $2500).
Personally, I don't see any scenario where I'd buy a SCAR. Too much money, with no tangible thing you can point to and say "this is worth the extra $1000-1500 over a regular AR-10".
The SIG 716 DMRs are badass rifles, but I would never pay MSRP for one. I'd totally pay the employee discount price for one though (around $1400). That'd be my choice for an accurate (MOA) .308 gun that would work for bench shooting as well as a carbine course or general purpose money-to-noise conversion.
If you just want a plinker, get a FAL. Probably the cheapest .308 battle rifle if you're just going to use irons.
If you want a sub-MOA, consistent bench gun then just get a bolt gun like the Remington 700, or Savage 10 or 12. A bolt gun is going to be more accurate than a military style semi-auto.
I guess I don't really have a slot for the M1A. Probably the reason I don't own one (or a Garand, or an SKS). I just don't really enjoy shooting "traditional" style iron sight semi-autos like them. An EBR style M1A with optics would probably be in the same realm as the SIG716 DMR for me (but cost around $2500).
