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Shooter correction chart?
- Thread starter senorFrog
- Start date
Chris
NES Member
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- May 24, 2005
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Chris said:
I'm definitely a #6. I can (with the exception of occasional fliers) group 3-4" pretty reasonably, but almost always at the 6-7 oclock position.
This is a handy chart. I forgot, it is in the back of the NRA BP book also.
Matt
Just as an additional note, there are also a couple of targets (left and right handed) that you can print from your computer that have the error chart on the target for easy reference.
Ammoman.com has them for free download at http://www.ammoman.com/targets/. Click "Free targets" at the left hand side of the window and scroll down the right hand window(last two targets near bottom). Right click the graphic of the target and choose "Save target as..." to save.
Ammoman.com has them for free download at http://www.ammoman.com/targets/. Click "Free targets" at the left hand side of the window and scroll down the right hand window(last two targets near bottom). Right click the graphic of the target and choose "Save target as..." to save.
http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/grp-analysis.pdf
A very complete chart that includes more than the standard stuff. Designed for bullseye shooters specificly.
http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/shooting_faults.pdf
What do they mean by jerking, snatching, etc.
A very complete chart that includes more than the standard stuff. Designed for bullseye shooters specificly.
http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/shooting_faults.pdf
What do they mean by jerking, snatching, etc.
Last edited:
Awerbuck Chart
Here is a great Chart put together by Louis Awerbuck and given to NEShooters to post with permission of Louis Awerbuck. It puts all of his years of knowledge out there for you to use.
There are some specific firearms that it identifies problems with.
Good luck
http://www.neshooters.com/awerbuck.pdf
Here is a great Chart put together by Louis Awerbuck and given to NEShooters to post with permission of Louis Awerbuck. It puts all of his years of knowledge out there for you to use.
There are some specific firearms that it identifies problems with.
Good luck
http://www.neshooters.com/awerbuck.pdf
Garys
NES Member
I gave a lot of thought to why I was shooting 2-3 inches to the left and came to the conclusion it was neither the gun or the loads.
What I finally realised that practicing constantly with different types of handguns is my problem. I've been taking to many guns with me to the range. Changing from a single action like a Model 41 or a 1911 to a revolver I think has been my problem.
The heavier trigger and longer trigger pull on a revolver is generating more trigger torque. Which has been moving the barrel to the left. Even in single action the trigger pull is heaver than any of my single action Semi's.
Another problem I think that causes my shooting to the left is my years of constant training for self defense. I shoot to fast and have a problem slowing down.
What I finally realised that practicing constantly with different types of handguns is my problem. I've been taking to many guns with me to the range. Changing from a single action like a Model 41 or a 1911 to a revolver I think has been my problem.
The heavier trigger and longer trigger pull on a revolver is generating more trigger torque. Which has been moving the barrel to the left. Even in single action the trigger pull is heaver than any of my single action Semi's.
Another problem I think that causes my shooting to the left is my years of constant training for self defense. I shoot to fast and have a problem slowing down.
SHOOTING ERRORS
Hello all,
regarding these shooter errors with handgun...please note that most of the charts that you see out there (wheels, etc.) are based off of very old middle 20th century charts from bullseye shooting. Many are surprised to learn than many of these charts are based on (1) revolver shooting and (2) bullseye/target shooting.
I have a collection of just about all of them that are in circulation and many copy from each other. The Awerbuck and Degrata ones are the two more applicable to defensive/tactical shooting that I have seen. I am still developing a series of them connected to a book project which will make much easier for shooters and instructors.
A more correct chart applies to a specific firearm type (semi-auto pistol vs. revolver) plus two handed or one handed shooter for defensive purposes. I have worked on this quite a bit over the years and there are often habits that manifest even based on the model of pistol (such as TDA-DA/SA pistol shooters may exhibit some habits that the SAO and Glock don't, due to the long double action first round and issues of transitioning from double to single action , resetting, etc.) Over the years, I have documented a whole list of these types of things related to pistol types and trigger actions. there are things that you have to look for based on the shooter, their pistol design, and if they are shooting two or single handed.
When coaching/teaching single handed defensive shooting, there are a whole range of things that manifest themselves, so a different chart and list of things to look for are needed. When switching to the nondominant/support hand only shooting, other things manifest.
the most common "direction" where shooter's shots will "land" is the path of least resistance. For example, for a right handed shooter, shooting two handed, you will see the majority of shots to their left (support side) of center, or low and left of center. The next most common is low and center, followed by high and right. there is a list of fixes for each of these.
the most important thing when using a chart or other diagnostics tool is to know the correct answer to solve that problem, and then force oneself to do that corrected technique continuosly until it becomes second nature. the real solution is to each pistol marksmanship for defensive applications correctly int he first place, and allow variations and options for the shooter as no two are alike (this is especially true in regard to grip and the thumb position). Via the PSI and Centermass courses, we have attempted to teach in a very methodical and easy to acquire manner what we think is the most applicable series of techniques for basic defensive shooting technique, but i would also argue and recommend that you attend several reputable defensive shooting schools before finalizing your technique.
so, don't rely on these charts that are circulating unless they are specifically designed for real deal shooting.
Hello all,
regarding these shooter errors with handgun...please note that most of the charts that you see out there (wheels, etc.) are based off of very old middle 20th century charts from bullseye shooting. Many are surprised to learn than many of these charts are based on (1) revolver shooting and (2) bullseye/target shooting.
I have a collection of just about all of them that are in circulation and many copy from each other. The Awerbuck and Degrata ones are the two more applicable to defensive/tactical shooting that I have seen. I am still developing a series of them connected to a book project which will make much easier for shooters and instructors.
A more correct chart applies to a specific firearm type (semi-auto pistol vs. revolver) plus two handed or one handed shooter for defensive purposes. I have worked on this quite a bit over the years and there are often habits that manifest even based on the model of pistol (such as TDA-DA/SA pistol shooters may exhibit some habits that the SAO and Glock don't, due to the long double action first round and issues of transitioning from double to single action , resetting, etc.) Over the years, I have documented a whole list of these types of things related to pistol types and trigger actions. there are things that you have to look for based on the shooter, their pistol design, and if they are shooting two or single handed.
When coaching/teaching single handed defensive shooting, there are a whole range of things that manifest themselves, so a different chart and list of things to look for are needed. When switching to the nondominant/support hand only shooting, other things manifest.
the most common "direction" where shooter's shots will "land" is the path of least resistance. For example, for a right handed shooter, shooting two handed, you will see the majority of shots to their left (support side) of center, or low and left of center. The next most common is low and center, followed by high and right. there is a list of fixes for each of these.
the most important thing when using a chart or other diagnostics tool is to know the correct answer to solve that problem, and then force oneself to do that corrected technique continuosly until it becomes second nature. the real solution is to each pistol marksmanship for defensive applications correctly int he first place, and allow variations and options for the shooter as no two are alike (this is especially true in regard to grip and the thumb position). Via the PSI and Centermass courses, we have attempted to teach in a very methodical and easy to acquire manner what we think is the most applicable series of techniques for basic defensive shooting technique, but i would also argue and recommend that you attend several reputable defensive shooting schools before finalizing your technique.
so, don't rely on these charts that are circulating unless they are specifically designed for real deal shooting.
one missing
I noticed one was missing from the original posting. It did not contain dead center horizontal but all over the place vertically. Breathing... check your breathing. You should always fire when you're done exhaling. An army tidbit.
I noticed one was missing from the original posting. It did not contain dead center horizontal but all over the place vertically. Breathing... check your breathing. You should always fire when you're done exhaling. An army tidbit.
With all due respect to the charts and wheels, most shooting errors are caused by improper trigger control. Learning to pull (or as some say , press) the trigger straight to the rear without disturbing the sights is the solution. This year I attended a top notch shooting class where the instructor explained this in detail. He demonstrated shooting at a target with "too much finger" on the trigger, less finger on the trigger and different grips and all his shots hit on center because he applied correct pressure to the trigger straight to the rear without disturbing the sights. Dryfire practice and using a laser can work wonders in this area.
I teach the NRA Basic Pistol course and during the classroom phase, I use a cheap laser pointer from Ocean State Job lot or some other low end retail outlet. I tape it to the frame of the students (or my gun) gun and then tape the push button "on". I have them point the laser at a target on the wall and press the trigger without disturbing the laser. The laser does not need to line up with the sights for this exercise and it most likely won't. This shows the student the importance of good trigger manipulation and how it will affect shot placement. There are plenty of good weapon mounted lasers out there but this cheap gadget can work wonders for dryfire practice. YMMV
I made up a special one for people shooting my .500 S&W:
That's Fantastic!!!
