"Shoot, Don't Shoot" not as easy as you think.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I had "shoot don't shoot" training when I was with the Westwood Police in the late 70's
This video barely scratches the surface. You have to be correct 100% of the time,
the perps only have to be right once. I will not discuss some of the hidden guns
that perps use to kill cops as I don't want to give them ideas,
let's just say that are scum out there who want to kill cops,
they will even pretend to be fighting and then turn on the responders.

I remember in one training session there were two incidents, first you approach a camper to see if anyone is there, as you approach the door suddenly opens and the perp using a hunting bow suddenly shoot you with a hunting arrow. The responding Officer died in that one. As I was doing the training as the arrow came at you, you could feel it hit you in your mind. I still remember that one.
The other one was kind of funny at least to me... The scenario is, a black woman with green hair a yellow shirt and orange slacks and a purple handbag has murdered someone with a handgun. You see the perp walking towards you, suddenly she puts her hand in the bag and yanks out... a compact, if you shot you were wrong, but you only had a split second. I went first and didn't shoot. The second group of 3 officers where on the firing line and I was standing behind them. They were really keyed up and ready to go. As the woman pulled her hand out of the bag I suddenly yelled "BANG"! ALL 3 of them fired!

I thought it was hilarious although they didn't see the humor!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g

 

[DrBurnsides]

Do the drill with your LEO friend or just range buddies. Tell them to shoot two on the command to fire. Do a few drills... Then yell "Mickey Mouse" ... How many fire? Continue the drill.. Don't give the order to fire.. Pop a few into your target.. How many fire?

The Lizard is fast.. But the monkey thinks. I don't have the answer.

 

[Davidk]

Shoot/No-Shoot is incredibly valuable training!!!

So much so that I published a DVD with Shoot/No-Shoot Scenarios. Its a real eye opener! After each scenario, the narrator discusses what you should have seen and what you should have done at each stage. Incredible training.

http://www.armedresponsetraining.com/product-p/arvts005.htm

It goes hand in hand with the Responsible Use of Lethal Force DVD

http://www.armedresponsetraining.com/product-p/arvts004.htm

 

[knfmn]

I've done shoot/don't shoot training a few times. It is very valuable and very humbling.

 

[Bourget117]

MFS has a good scenario shooting class like that. I took it back a few months ago. It's a lot harder than most people think. A lot of people shot when they shouldn't have. Or surprisingly froze when confronted with someone pointing a gun at them during the simulation.
I thought it was very worthwhile and have highly recommended it to all my shooting friends.

 

[Manipulatory]

A great report done by Fox 10 Phoenix. This needs to be done with more of these protesters.

 

[mclina]

When I did my BFS class at MFS they let us run some of the simulations. It was pretty intense, even though you knew it wasn't real.

 

[GlockJock]

The other one was kind of funny at least to me... The scenario is, a black woman with green hair a yellow shirt and orange slacks and a purple handbag has murdered someone with a handgun. You see the perp walking towards you, suddenly she puts her hand in the bag and yanks out... a compact, if you shot you were wrong, but you only had a split second. I went first and didn't shoot. The second group of 3 officers where on the firing line and I was standing behind them. They were really keyed up and ready to go. As the woman pulled her hand out of the bag I suddenly yelled "BANG"! ALL 3 of them fired!

These days, the "compact" that the sista pulled would be an M&P Compact.

Just sayin'

 

[Mountain]

I've done this training with the high pressure air powered converted handguns with laser simulators. They cycle and 'kick' somewhat like the real deal. Wish I could remember the name of the system- it was very instructive and the scenarios would definitely get you keyed up a little. I thought it was excellent training and if I won the lottery such a system would be the first thing I'd install into my basement .

IIRC, I was the only one to score 100% on the simulator. It was nice to score well, but I still think it qualifies me only to be a mall ninja or video game wizard. Trying to score well in training isn't the same making a split second decision and making an accurate shot (or not) when your life or potentially an innocent's life is in the balance. That said, with correct training and lots of repetition so that the actions become 'muscle memory', under duress the training kicks in before you 'think' about what to do. Good stall recovery training & lots of reps saved my life once when I was flying a small plane on final approach and hit a sudden wind shear. The ground was too close to hesitate or make a mistake. Talk about pucker factor- I think my sphincter could have cut a diamond in half.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Not for the situation but for the way you described it. I was flying commercial into TF Green on a night of bad windshear, we were bouncing like a cork, up and down what looked like 50 feet off the trees at times and rocking violently. Another Navy vet was next to me and I swear he left finger marks in the armrests! I have to admit I was pretty puckered up as well.

 

[Rider]

I've heard it many times, and it's one of those things we know but don't think about a lot: Shooting skills, and more specifically combat shooting skills decay if you don't practice them.

I am reading The Finishing School by Dick Couch, and at one point when they are training, the senior instructor says, 'Remember gentlemen, at the end of the day we are gunfighters, and our skills have an expiration date.' Meaning, of course, that even the best have to train constantly to keep their edge.

Beyond 'Shoot, don't Shoot', I think that most people* have never really thought about, and definitely not trained for, what is likely to be an actual violent encounter. One of the threads around the time of Orlando was interesting because there were a good number of people who said they would focus on getting their families out safely if they saw a bad guy start shooting in a store, and a good number who said they would go after the bad guy. But I wonder if they have ever practiced approaching and taking out a shooter amidst innocent bystanders.

*I stipulate that 'most people' likely doesn't include a lot of NES members who train for a living or sit huddled in their living room thinking about this stuff while their cat eats imaginary food off the floor.