Quick question maybe it's been answered. If I bring a boxed up rifle,that I intend to ship to the manufacturer, am I not breaking federal law bringing it into the post office to ship it?
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Shipping rifle via usps.
- Thread starter Killswitch009
- Start date
rifles yes, handguns no
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service
greencobra
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a little info
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service
not sure what nonlicensee means....ffl perhaps??
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service
not sure what nonlicensee means....ffl perhaps??
Long guns are fine, just might have to show them they are empty. I had 1 person years ago question if it was legal, I had this printed out and she then looked it up. (was not happy but had to take it.)
12.2 Rifles and Shotguns
[Revise renumbered 12.2 as follows:]
Except under 12.1.1d and 12.1.2, unloaded rifles and shot*guns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing under 12.1.1d. The following conditions also apply:
a. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement, and must be sent by Express Mail (“signature required” must be used at delivery) or Registered Mail, or must in*clude either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivery.
b. A shotgun or rifle owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner’s state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the state, where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:
1. Be addressed to the owner.
2. Include the “in the care of” endorsement immedi*ately preceding the name of the applicable tem*porary custodian.
3. Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
4. Be mailed using services described in 12.2a.
c. Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 12.2a.
d. Except as described in 12.1.2a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the defini*tion of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domes*tically to FFL licensed curio and relic collectors in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed us*ing those services described in 12.2a.
e. Firearms that are certified by the curator of a munic*ipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest may be ac*cepted for mailing without restriction.
f. Air guns that do not fall within the definition of firearm under 12.1.1a are mailable. A shipment containing an air gun with a muzzle velocity of 400 or more feet per second (fps) must include an Adult Signature service under 503.8.0. Mailers must additionally comply with all applicable state and local regulations.
12.3 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
[Revise renumbered 12.3 as follows:]
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of firearms. Further advice and ATF contact information is available at http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/
https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2011/pb22321/html/updt_001.htm
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Non FFL is what the nonlicensee is.
12.2 Rifles and Shotguns
[Revise renumbered 12.2 as follows:]
Except under 12.1.1d and 12.1.2, unloaded rifles and shot*guns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing under 12.1.1d. The following conditions also apply:
a. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement, and must be sent by Express Mail (“signature required” must be used at delivery) or Registered Mail, or must in*clude either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivery.
b. A shotgun or rifle owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner’s state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the state, where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:
1. Be addressed to the owner.
2. Include the “in the care of” endorsement immedi*ately preceding the name of the applicable tem*porary custodian.
3. Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
4. Be mailed using services described in 12.2a.
c. Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 12.2a.
d. Except as described in 12.1.2a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the defini*tion of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domes*tically to FFL licensed curio and relic collectors in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed us*ing those services described in 12.2a.
e. Firearms that are certified by the curator of a munic*ipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest may be ac*cepted for mailing without restriction.
f. Air guns that do not fall within the definition of firearm under 12.1.1a are mailable. A shipment containing an air gun with a muzzle velocity of 400 or more feet per second (fps) must include an Adult Signature service under 503.8.0. Mailers must additionally comply with all applicable state and local regulations.
12.3 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
[Revise renumbered 12.3 as follows:]
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of firearms. Further advice and ATF contact information is available at http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/
https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2011/pb22321/html/updt_001.htm
- - - Updated - - -
Non FFL is what the nonlicensee is.
Yes, shipping an unloaded rifle is fine via USPS. I always strip the rifle and remove the bolt/carrier, etc. and wrap it separately. I also provide a large font note in the box that describes the contents as an "unloaded, disassembled, and lawfully owned long rifle" in the unlikely event the postmaster examines the contents.
Do not ship a handgun via usps unless you are an FFL.
Do not ship a handgun via usps unless you are an FFL.
Disassembly not required. Perfectly legal to ship a long gun via USPO.
Only FFLs allowed to ship handguns are Dealers and Mfrs. I'm an 03 FFL (C&R FFL) and NO we can NOT legally ship handguns via the USPO ever.
I shipped a Marlin .22 lever out west a couple years ago out of the main PO in Worcester, MA. I figured if anyone would know the rules, the Main PO in one of the largest cities in the Commonwealth would know.
Parked across the street and walked over, sans rifle, waited in line and conveyed my intentions...
"we don't do that"
"Yes you do", I said, producing the printed literature from there own website... Every clerk in the box was obviously on edge at the request...
"one minute"... several minutes later I was talking to another PO employee, this one with suitcoat and tie...
"we don't do that"![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
"Yes, yes you do"... (producing the same USPS instructions)
"one minute"... a phone call... ANOTHER suit (to which I've come to understand may have been the postmaster, or an asst)
Having received what I felt was a mutual understanding between us for a perfectly legal transaction, I went back across the street, retrieved the prepackaged rifle (an unassuming brown box that would have shipped anywhere without issue had it contained... well...anything) and the last suit handled my transaction in front of the original clerk (but not until after having me sign an affidavit that the rifle had been broken down into it's smallest possible components ).
Nobody died. The gun arrived safely to an FFL in Oklahoma, or wherever...possibly fully assembled. The moral of the story, however, is to never walk into a PO and declare "I HAVE A GUN!"![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
(explain to them how ignorant they are first)
Parked across the street and walked over, sans rifle, waited in line and conveyed my intentions...
"we don't do that"
"Yes you do", I said, producing the printed literature from there own website... Every clerk in the box was obviously on edge at the request...
"one minute"... several minutes later I was talking to another PO employee, this one with suitcoat and tie...
"we don't do that"
"Yes, yes you do"... (producing the same USPS instructions)
"one minute"... a phone call... ANOTHER suit (to which I've come to understand may have been the postmaster, or an asst)
Having received what I felt was a mutual understanding between us for a perfectly legal transaction, I went back across the street, retrieved the prepackaged rifle (an unassuming brown box that would have shipped anywhere without issue had it contained... well...anything) and the last suit handled my transaction in front of the original clerk (but not until after having me sign an affidavit that the rifle had been broken down into it's smallest possible components
).Nobody died. The gun arrived safely to an FFL in Oklahoma, or wherever...possibly fully assembled. The moral of the story, however, is to never walk into a PO and declare "I HAVE A GUN!"
(explain to them how ignorant they are first)
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What risk?
The USPS asks "Does this parcel contain anything fragile, liquid, perishable, or potentially hazardous?" You say, "No."
At no time have they ever asked me "What's in there?"
They don't say "Got any guns in here?"
You shouldn't be saying "Hey, I got a gun in here. That's OK, right?"
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USPS regulations (see post #6 above) strongly imply that you must declare that it is a rifle/shotgun.
I'm not sure I see that, even by implication, Len, and I sure don't see any "Shipper shall..." statement.
Len-2A is absolutely right. There is nothing fragile, liquid, hazardous in the box and you answer NO to the clerk. You do not reveal the contents to the clerk. The "postmaster" has no power to open and examine the package. The only people that ever check packages are the Postal Inspectors and they do it with an X-ray machine. They do not open packages either unless the X-ray reveals a threat in which case they would determine if it needs to be opened.
From my referenced cite (Post #6):
If you don't tell the USPO it contains a long gun why/how would the above be part of the Postal Regs. In any case, no way I'd want to mess with the Postal Inspectors wrt any criminal accusations.
I'd up-front deal with the USPO with their regs and my compliance . . . or go to a FedEx/UPS depot with the package.
if shipping USPS, and something goes wrong ( lost/broken/etc.) and you need to file insurance claim, note that once you declare the insurance claim involves a firearm, it then also requires you provide a stamped/signed copy of the ps-1508 form.
USPS doesn't pay on insurance claims!
I once said that to a USPS business manager at a trade show where they were looking for business business. He agreed with me.
My firearms insurance covers shipping, end of story. No need to pay additional for no coverage anyway.
I once said that to a USPS business manager at a trade show where they were looking for business business. He agreed with me.
My firearms insurance covers shipping, end of story. No need to pay additional for no coverage anyway.
Guess we'll have to disagree. I don't think people get prosecuted for violating an "implication," and they could have easily worded it differently if they wanted to require disclosure.
Compare to the wording of 922(e):
(e)...It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier...
It's not like they didn't know how to word it.
We commonly see long guns going to Savage for work. The only issue really is when they're shipped with ammo. I haven't heard of a long gun going off, but a pistol did discharge on a sorting machine a few years ago.
