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Sheepdog? How about "Porcupine"?

allen-1

allen-1

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Or as the author says "We don't carry guns for you".

Nice article, written a while ago, first time I've read it.

https://www.ammoland.com/2015/10/we-dont-carry-guns-for-you/#axzz4k7VMEglj

Excerpt:
Our nation’s convoluted laws on self-defense and liability also force all but the most dedicated “sheepdogs” into the role of “porcupine” as well, making “porcupines” the most prevalent variety of armed citizen. We won’t passively stand by while the wolves have their way with us or our families, but neither can we take responsibility for protecting the “sheep” from the “wolves.”


Certainly most people who carry would take action to help someone in need if there was an opportunity to do so, and there was no obvious alternative, and while many of us would probably prefer to characterize ourselves as “sheepdogs” rather than “porcupines,” the reality is that protecting you, your spouse, and your children is your responsibility, not ours. You should also be aware that protection of you and your family is not the responsibility of the police either. The courts have conclusively ruled that the police have a duty to protect only the public at large, not individuals.
 
I've never liked the essay of the "Sheep, wolf and sheepdog".

I agree with this guy, but don't characterize myself as a porcupine, although people have called me a prick.

I'm a cat. I generally don't give a crap. I look harmless, conceal my weapons, like to sit in the sun and clean them and will generally ignore all people. I have a well stocked kitchen and don't need food, but I like to hunt for the fun of it. If provoked, I'll leave. If followed, I'll run. If cornered, I'll leave you so frigging bloody that you'll carry the scars forever if you live.

The idea of me crossing the street to help a sheep is idiotic to me. Sorry, but I've lived in this state for my whole life and know the people here. Most would feel more sympathy for their attacker and would label me as the animal. The loss of some of my fellow citizens doesn't really bother me too much - in all probability, it's just another liberal anyway. Never mind thousands of dollars I don't have in legal costs for a shooting, I'm not really willing to spend the cost of a bullet to save some moonbat; I'll do like they want me to do, and I'll call 911 for them, unless I'm close to the end of my cell phone minutes. Sorry - eff 'em.

Come near my wife and kids and you'll never know what hit you.
 
My family and me. The rest can defend themselves. That's how it is because of all the ****ing bullshit laws
 
That dude in England who held off three snackbars with knives screaming "I'm millwall" or something while everyone else cowered. Balls bigger than his brains(probably alcomahol courage too) Nobody helped him. Leave the sheep to theirs.
 
Strange, I was pondering this yesterday after the baseball field shooting.

Going over the what would I do if I was there plan in my mind.

with the barrage of gun grabbers coming out of the woodwork to capitalize on the incident,

I was thinking , to bad we don't have an identifier for pro 2A people.

I would jump in for them , but tell the grabbers, you're gonna have to wait till the police arrive.
 
whalerman69 said:
Good read thanks. Living in Ma I guess I am more inclined to the porcupine role....
Click to expand...

"Living in MA" should have little to no bearing on how you react to an SD situation or whether or not you decide to defend someone else. A gun being needed or not in a truly exigent circumstance (eg, an imminent threat to innocent parties) doesn't magically change based on some arbitrary state border. I'm not saying that people should play john rambo and run into the gunfire if they don't want to, it's just that this downtrodden MA gun owner nonsense mentality will likely not help someone make the correct decision if the time ever comes. I hear all these MA gun owners going into this sad sack stuff about how theyd get put in jail and wah wah wah wah wah, if they had to defend themselves. The people that think that stuff should just leave their guns at home since they'll probably be too fixated on that stuff to actually use it if it needed. Being informed is one thing but at some people people need to step away from the Ayoob Glue jar and get fresh air... [laugh]

-Mike
 
I prefer to think of myself as the guy walking down the street with the beer in his hand during the London attack.

If a bunch of libtards die for their beliefs whom am I to stop them![rofl]
 
drgrant said:
"Living in MA" should have little to no bearing on how you react to an SD situation or whether or not you decide to defend someone else. A gun being needed or not in a truly exigent circumstance (eg, an imminent threat to innocent parties) doesn't magically change based on some arbitrary state border. I'm not saying that people should play john rambo and run into the gunfire if they don't want to, it's just that this downtrodden MA gun owner nonsense mentality will likely not help someone make the correct decision if the time ever comes. I hear all these MA gun owners going into this sad sack stuff about how theyd get put in jail and wah wah wah wah wah, if they had to defend themselves. The people that think that stuff should just leave their guns at home since they'll probably be too fixated on that stuff to actually use it if it needed. Being informed is one thing but at some people people need to step away from the Ayoob Glue jar and get fresh air... [laugh]
-Mike
Click to expand...

My interpretation of "porcupine" was a person that takes care of himself and family which is the way I lean. You can sit there and type all kinds of what if's till the cows come home. You do not know what you are going to do till it actually happens and depending on the circumstances you might want to error on caution. I have been in the unfortunate situation of having someone on the wrong end of a shotgun who broke into my apartment when I was living in Boston. Believe me a lot goes through your mind in a very short period of time. If you don't feel some what handicapped by how this state works well good for you and have at it. [grin]
 
drgrant said:
"Living in MA" should have little to no bearing on how you react to an SD situation or whether or not you decide to defend someone else. A gun being needed or not in a truly exigent circumstance (eg, an imminent threat to innocent parties) doesn't magically change based on some arbitrary state border. I'm not saying that people should play john rambo and run into the gunfire if they don't want to, it's just that this downtrodden MA gun owner nonsense mentality will likely not help someone make the correct decision if the time ever comes. I hear all these MA gun owners going into this sad sack stuff about how theyd get put in jail and wah wah wah wah wah, if they had to defend themselves. The people that think that stuff should just leave their guns at home since they'll probably be too fixated on that stuff to actually use it if it needed. Being informed is one thing but at some people people need to step away from the Ayoob Glue jar and get fresh air... [laugh]

-Mike
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the main point that fixating on the legal issues has no place in a snap life or death decision. However, I do disagree regarding MA in general and since moving here have already formed a different outlook on defense of others.

Knowing the LEO and prosecutor differences between here and TN, I would err strongly towards MYOB here. My town here with one or two dick exceptions has excellent, highly professional LEO's that serve the community well. However, regardless of circumstances if a law has been or has potentially been broken, they will make the arrest or at least write up the citation and it will be up to the courts to sort it out. I highly doubt that in most MA communities there will be any 'gimmies' for doing the right thing. Even when defending yourself and/or family from certain death, imagine being charged with discharging a firearm too close to a building; not to mention any other possible charges. Even de-escalating a bad situation could result in brandishing charges. I expect the MA LEO's to follow the book regardless of circumstances. That MA 'book' is rather heavy and thick regarding firearms issues.

Ultimately, if I, my family, or close friends are involved? Not a second thought. Strangers? That does not meet the criteria for self defense.
 
DrBurnsides said:
That dude in England who held off three snackbars with knives screaming "I'm millwall" or something while everyone else cowered. Balls bigger than his brains(probably alcomahol courage too) Nobody helped him. Leave the sheep to theirs.
Click to expand...

He was in England, but he was.Romanian. They've been dealing with snackbars for a long time.
 
drgrant said:
"Living in MA" should have little to no bearing on how you react to an SD situation or whether or not you decide to defend someone else. A gun being needed or not in a truly exigent circumstance (eg, an imminent threat to innocent parties) doesn't magically change based on some arbitrary state border. I'm not saying that people should play john rambo and run into the gunfire if they don't want to, it's just that this downtrodden MA gun owner nonsense mentality will likely not help someone make the correct decision if the time ever comes. I hear all these MA gun owners going into this sad sack stuff about how theyd get put in jail and wah wah wah wah wah, if they had to defend themselves. The people that think that stuff should just leave their guns at home since they'll probably be too fixated on that stuff to actually use it if it needed. Being informed is one thing but at some people people need to step away from the Ayoob Glue jar and get fresh air... [laugh]

-Mike
Click to expand...

The living in MA part means that very likely, you'd be trying to protect someone who at the least voted for someone to take away your right to protect yourself, if not campaigned anti 2A. I won't give some moonbats car a jump, I sure ain't going to jail for em.
Knowing the majority around me is a liberal, I'm not helping. I know they won't help me, so let them die.
 
tuna said:
I've never liked the essay of the "Sheep, wolf and sheepdog".

I agree with this guy, but don't characterize myself as a porcupine, although people have called me a prick.

I'm a cat. I generally don't give a crap. I look harmless, conceal my weapons, like to sit in the sun and clean them and will generally ignore all people. I have a well stocked kitchen and don't need food, but I like to hunt for the fun of it. If provoked, I'll leave. If followed, I'll run. If cornered, I'll leave you so frigging bloody that you'll carry the scars forever if you live.

The idea of me crossing the street to help a sheep is idiotic to me. Sorry, but I've lived in this state for my whole life and know the people here. Most would feel more sympathy for their attacker and would label me as the animal. The loss of some of my fellow citizens doesn't really bother me too much - in all probability, it's just another liberal anyway. Never mind thousands of dollars I don't have in legal costs for a shooting, I'm not really willing to spend the cost of a bullet to save some moonbat; I'll do like they want me to do, and I'll call 911 for them, unless I'm close to the end of my cell phone minutes. Sorry - eff 'em.

Come near my wife and kids and you'll never know what hit you.
Click to expand...

Could not possible have said it better myself!
 
This response is all just a bunch of empty talk until actually confronted with this situation, but:

I don't think that I could just walk away while someone else was being victimized before me. Even if the victim was the most arrogant moonbat, I believe everyone of us has a duty to ourselves and to each other. It may not be a legal duty, but it is a moral duty.

That being said, if anyone ever is in a position where they have to come to the defense of another person, it is paramount that they fully understand what the situation is. I am concerned particularly about responding to an active shooter situation. It could be easy to mistake a responder for the active shooter, just as it would be easy to be mistaken if you respond.
 
eboos said:
This response is all just a bunch of empty talk until actually confronted with this situation, but:

I don't think that I could just walk away while someone else was being victimized before me. Even if the victim was the most arrogant moonbat, I believe everyone of us has a duty to ourselves and to each other. It may not be a legal duty, but it is a moral duty.

That being said, if anyone ever is in a position where they have to come to the defense of another person, it is paramount that they fully understand what the situation is. I am concerned particularly about responding to an active shooter situation. It could be easy to mistake a responder for the active shooter, just as it would be easy to be mistaken if you respond.
Click to expand...

Does that hold true for diane fienstien or any of the other rabid gun grabbers? In my book that's a no. Where's her duty to me when she says "turn them all in?"
 
I have a moral duty to my wife and children to protect and provide for them above all.
That means I'm not not going to jeopardize them, for the sake of someone who chooses to put themself at risk.
Some moonbat who thinks guns are icky has no right to expect me to risk my family to save them, thanks to the legal situation they've created.
I'll spend my life in prison to protect my kids, but these moonbats arent worth a dime to me, live or dead.
I said in another post I'd sell a kidney for Narcan if my loved ones needed it, but I won't carry it for junkie strangers.
My heart is hardened, I know. My wife helps me be compassionate, but I still have an easy time hating, and most people I see I don't care about.




I said I've been called a prick.
 
eboos said:
I don't think that I could just walk away while someone else was being victimized before me. Even if the victim was the most arrogant moonbat, I believe everyone of us has a duty to ourselves and to each other. It may not be a legal duty, but it is a moral duty.
Click to expand...

Fine. I disagree, which makes you a better person than I am, but that's not the point. The point is that we all need to have our basic response thought out and, if possible, rehearsed LONG before we need it.

Be a sheepdog, a porcupine, a cat, a freaking pangolin; the species is unimportant so long as you have a rationale for your actions and train for them. And Mike's right, in an important way: your state of residence shouldn't matter. Keep your philosophy simple and direct, then apply it ruthlessly.
 
headednorth said:
He was in England, but he was.Romanian. They've been dealing with snackbars for a long time.
Click to expand...

?

His name's Roy Larner, from Peckham in SE London. Mom's name is Phyllis. If he's Romanian, it's a ways back.

And he deserves to be quoted in full:"F--k you! I'm Millwall!"

He also said, "It was the worst thing I could have done," but the other quote is better.
 
I can't imagine being in an active shooter situation, where innocent women and children could potentially get slaughtered, and consider their political beliefs in terms of whether I'd take action. There are plenty of reasons to hate the multitude of a-holes out there (aside from even ultra-moonbat beliefs). And I agree 100% with everybody who said you never know unless you've been in a situation how you'd react. But I can't imagine sleeping well at night after running out of a situation like Sandy Hook or Columbine or the movie theater in Denver, etc., knowing that I could have possibly taken action and saved innocent people, especially kids. Paying legal fees, etc. would suck of course. But there'd be no way to get the thought of innocent victims(s) out of my head in a situation like that where potentially I could have done something (understanding full well that in a few of the situations I described above one couldn't have even been legally armed).
 
tuna said:
I have a moral duty to my wife and children to protect and provide for them above all.
That means I'm not not going to jeopardize them, for the sake of someone who chooses to put themself at risk.
Click to expand...
This.
Something I think you implied but didn't say outright. Part of the duty to wife and kids is to no get my ass shot or put in jail where I'm no good to them. Protecting a stranger puts me at risk of both. Sorry, but family first. When the kids are out and totally on their own I may soften on this a little.
 
In a state where the majority of people are Liberal moon bats that believe what main stream media says about firearm owners.
Knowing that those same people are going to be making up the twelve jurors at my trial if I decide to use deadly force protecting someone else.
I'm going to have to say it would be suicide using a firearm to protect someone else that is not your family here in MA.
This what the police, prosecutors, and judges all are projecting in the media and in court cases that happen here in the Commonwealth.

So a big HELL NO, am I going to risk my families security on some other poor sap that would probably be testifying against me in a court of law.

Sorry, by they are the naive ones that were not prepared for situations that do occur here in the real word!
 
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